Petrol/Gas Un-detuning the engine

[Tazzieman]

If you start to tune the B58….just know that the gearbox might fail eventually if the tune goes over the rated torque

And if you leave the cuddly bosom of the city and run low on fuel , and 91 octane from someone's old chainsaw allocation stands between you and survival...

 

[NQ94]

It would be good to see both engines from the Grenadier on the dyno with the factory tune. Do a proper dyno run like trucks and industrial engines with some full load hold time. None of this peak 5 to10 second tuners runs just to get a graph. Similar to Gale Banks dyno runs. It would be good to see how good the cooling package is. No one tows a heavy load for less then 5 seconds at full noise.

 

[DDG]

Plenty of good info and replies in this thread. The B58 will go down in automotive history as one of the most tunable and stout of all time. Along with Toyotas 2JZ and Nissan’s RB26. I really like the idea and approach that Ineos has taken though. Take a super strong motor and run it in an unstressed tune. Plenty of usable power but tuned for real longevity. If someone gets bored or really gets an itch for more power; you’ll have that option readily available.

 

[Miki]

Well found!

Thank you.
Heres the original posts from yesterday

Fuel economy

Last night my son and I had a 30km drive to an appointment, my son drove. We rode country roads, some narrow, winding, uphill and downhill, but also four-lane sections, an overall mix. With average traffic in the Odenwald where we live. It was his first ride in the Grenadier and he didn't...

www.theineosforum.com

https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/fuel-economy.12410444/page-11#post-1333206284

 

[Miki]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but anyone have any insight on whether we can un-detune the B58 petrol engine? What would be the pros and cons of this in the Ineos?

I haven't driven an IG on the highway yet, but just wanted to bring up the convo. We have a lot of 8-10 mile, 10% grade highway mountain passes here in Colorado and wouldn't mind having a bit of extra juice to get up them.

Yes you can, however to do this you will need to fit an external 'chip'.
The B57/58 series engines from BMW aren't 'new' (they are from 2015) so the programming/spoofing is a tried and tested thing.

I don't have a Gren (yet) but I will fit this device as soon as I have all my ducks in a row.

Here a quick spot on the engine ...

Confirmed to power the X3 xDrive30d, X4 xDrive30d, X5 xDrive30d, X6 xDrive30d, 730d and new 530d, the 3.0-litre B57 diesel engine features dual-stage turbocharging.
Its energy source of diesel fuel is served by piezo-injectors at a stratospheric 2700-bar injection pressure, requiring meticulous calibration, but also delivering a terrific blend of power and efficiency.
Technical upgrades include variable vane turbines, allowing geometry adjustment for the engine's boost management. Low-inertia turbochargers also dramatically reduce lag.
BMW claims the new B57 has seen its peak power has increased by 15kW, now rated at 210kW, while torque surges to 650Nm which totals a 30Nm improvement. Those are impressive numbers and to illustrate their worth, in a heavy limousine such as BMW's 730d xDrive, the new engine allows for 0-100kph in 5.6 seconds. It also delivers an average fuel consumption of only 5.0-litres/100km.

And more:

BMW B57: The new diesel for 7 Series and X models

The new B57 inline diesel engine, with a displacement of 3.0 liters, is the latest addition to the BMW diesel engine family with 286 hp

www.bmwblog.com

 

[hustlehard285]

Lots of good info here. I'm not necessarily going to be doing any engine tuning but wanted to bring it up since I'm sure some people will and I'm trying to burn some time while I wait for my delivery. It'll be interesting to see how the IG handles on the highway.

 

[bemax]

For my Fieldmaster diesel I would opt for longer gears 5-8 instead of any tuning of the engine. There is enough torque even with two tons on a trailer behind you.

 

[DCPU]

Or an overdrive?

 

[stickshifter]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but anyone have any insight on whether we can un-detune the B58 petrol engine? What would be the pros and cons of this in the Ineos?

I haven't driven an IG on the highway yet, but just wanted to bring up the convo. We have a lot of 8-10 mile, 10% grade highway mountain passes here in Colorado and wouldn't mind having a bit of extra juice to get up them.

There are threads on this topic elsewhere on the forum. Bottom line is this: the transmission paired with the B58 has a max torque rating of 369 lb/ft (if I remember correctly - you can search for those older threads), which is about 10% higher than the torque output of the B58 as it is delivered in the Grenadier. So if you want to tune the B58 in the Grenadier for power, you will quickly run out of headroom.

 

[stickshifter]

A little bit more specific info...

The B58 in the Grenadier makes 332 lb. ft. of torque (despite being capable of much higher output). The 8HP51 version of the ZF transmission that is paired with the B58 has a max-torque rating of 369 lb. ft. of torque. That is just 10% higher than the existing engine output. That leaves very little headroom for tuning up the output of the B58, while staying within ZF's specifications. I cannot imagine either Ineos or ZF recognizing a warranty claim for any damage to the power train if a tune crosses that threshold. We are talking about any trouble at all with the engine, transmission, transfer case, drive shafts, joints, axles, exhaust, etc. While it is commonly understood that the 8HP51 is a strong unit, and is probably capable of handling more than 369 lb. ft. of torque, if you flash the ECU, you may be completely on your own with repairs to many of the major systems in the vehicle.

Some Toyota Supra and BMW owners (who also have a B58 and an 8HP51) are chasing more power, and this has led to a market for upgrades to the 8HP51, so that it can safely handle added power. A Stage 1 upgrade to the 8HP51 starts at $6,000 (US), bringing its torque capacity up to 850 lb. ft. (and its horsepower rating up to 1000 HP).

Pure Drivetrain Solutions

www.puredrivetrainsolutions.com

 

[Mr_Trucker]

A little bit more specific info...

The B58 in the Grenadier makes 332 lb. ft. of torque (despite being capable of much higher output). The 8HP51 version of the ZF transmission that is paired with the B58 has a max-torque rating of 369 lb. ft. of torque. That is just 10% higher than the existing engine output. That leaves very little headroom for tuning up the output of the B58, while staying within ZF's specifications. I cannot imagine either Ineos or ZF recognizing a warranty claim for any damage to the power train if a tune crosses that threshold. We are talking about any trouble at all with the engine, transmission, transfer case, drive shafts, joints, axles, exhaust, etc. While it is commonly understood that the 8HP51 is a strong unit, and is probably capable of handling more than 369 lb. ft. of torque, if you flash the ECU, you may be completely on your own with repairs to many of the major systems in the vehicle.

Some Toyota Supra and BMW owners (who also have a B58 and an 8HP51) are chasing more power, and this has led to a market for upgrades to the 8HP51, so that it can safely handle added power. A Stage 1 upgrade to the 8HP51 starts at $6,000 (US), bringing its torque capacity up to 850 lb. ft. (and its horsepower rating up to 1000 HP).

Pure Drivetrain Solutions

www.puredrivetrainsolutions.com

Even if you upgrade the transmission to withstand 1,000hp and 850 lb.ft, for the lifetime it makes a huge difference if you run a 1,700kg sports car or a 2,700kg 4x4 (plus trailer weight).

 

[hustlehard285]

There are threads on this topic elsewhere on the forum. Bottom line is this: the transmission paired with the B58 has a max torque rating of 369 lb/ft (if I remember correctly - you can search for those older threads), which is about 10% higher than the torque output of the B58 as it is delivered in the Grenadier. So if you want to tune the B58 in the Grenadier for power, you will quickly run out of headroom.

All apologies, I did some deeper digging and found the one other thread on this. Thanks for the heads up

 

[Beowulf]

I’d be happy with a tune that tries to optimize fuel economy even if it sacrificed a little hp or torque.

Of course I’d be happy with a bigger tank or at least an aux tank

 

[ajj130]

A little bit more specific info...

The B58 in the Grenadier makes 332 lb. ft. of torque (despite being capable of much higher output). The 8HP51 version of the ZF transmission that is paired with the B58 has a max-torque rating of 369 lb. ft. of torque. That is just 10% higher than the existing engine output. That leaves very little headroom for tuning up the output of the B58, while staying within ZF's specifications. I cannot imagine either Ineos or ZF recognizing a warranty claim for any damage to the power train if a tune crosses that threshold. We are talking about any trouble at all with the engine, transmission, transfer case, drive shafts, joints, axles, exhaust, etc. While it is commonly understood that the 8HP51 is a strong unit, and is probably capable of handling more than 369 lb. ft. of torque, if you flash the ECU, you may be completely on your own with repairs to many of the major systems in the vehicle.

Some Toyota Supra and BMW owners (who also have a B58 and an 8HP51) are chasing more power, and this has led to a market for upgrades to the 8HP51, so that it can safely handle added power. A Stage 1 upgrade to the 8HP51 starts at $6,000 (US), bringing its torque capacity up to 850 lb. ft. (and its horsepower rating up to 1000 HP).

https://www.puredrivetrainsolutions...ps://www.puredrivetrainsolutions.com/[/QUOTE]

Question - would upgrading the transmission on ZF VOID the warranty ?

 

[DaBull]

Hi ajj130, It is incredible how much additional horse power and torque one can get out of the B58 engine. Not sure if anyone has yet cracked the code to reprogram the engine module we have for the BMW petrol engine variant B58TU-C that is likely in the Grenadier. Having to upgrade the transmission would be necessary for anything over a very mild tune and costly too not to mention warranty issues too. It will be interesting to follow future forum members who are brave enough to add additional horse power and torque and how the Grenadier performs afterwards. DaBull

 

[Cheshire cat]

Well found!

Reading this thread I saw this from DCPU and thought he might be back in the game. I then noted the date and my hopes were dashed.

 

[evomind]

How much HP/TQ do you folks figure you would need to add to make any NOTICEABLE difference in 6K something pound vehicle?

 

[anand]

How much HP/TQ do you folks figure you would need to add to make any NOTICEABLE difference in 6K something pound vehicle?

Based on other similar weighted vehicles, 10% HP would undoubtedly be felt... a 20-25% gain in our ~9000lb Sprinter was night and day

 

[evomind]

Based on other similar weighted vehicles, 10% HP would undoubtedly be felt... a 20-25% gain in our ~9000lb Sprinter was night and day

You are undoubtedly left with an ever so slightly faster - slow vehicle.

 

[[ Adam ]]

You are undoubtedly left with an ever so slightly faster - slow vehicle.

Which may manage to drain the fuel tank faster as well!