Petrol/Gas Un-detuning the engine

[hustlehard285]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but anyone have any insight on whether we can un-detune the B58 petrol engine? What would be the pros and cons of this in the Ineos?

I haven't driven an IG on the highway yet, but just wanted to bring up the convo. We have a lot of 8-10 mile, 10% grade highway mountain passes here in Colorado and wouldn't mind having a bit of extra juice to get up them.

 

[anand]

It's only a matter of time until tuners come out with performance files for the Grenadier (or, most likely, a piggyback style system like the Berger JB4).

Pros - More HP, more torque, possibly very slightly better fuel economy
Cons - More stress on the motor, potentially shorter engine/trans lifespan

Personally, I will most likely add some sort of performance upgrade when they become readily available and tested here Stateside (if I were to take a guess, I would expect US tuners to have products available sometime around late Spring '24); I don't expect to have my Grenadier for 20 years or 200k miles, so the super long term reliability isn't at the forefront of my purchase decision (if I were to guess, I expect to have it for <2 years and <50k miles).

I'll additionally caveat my above statements by adding that my background is 15+ years of working for a European performance shop and during that time working directly with several software tuners to develop and extensively test files for a variety of vehicles.

 

[Logsplitter]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but anyone have any insight on whether we can un-detune the B58 petrol engine? What would be the pros and cons of this in the Ineos?

I haven't driven an IG on the highway yet, but just wanted to bring up the convo. We have a lot of 8-10 mile, 10% grade highway mountain passes here in Colorado and wouldn't mind having a bit of extra juice to get up them.

In my opinion the B58 has plenty enough power. We have a hill nearby called Streatley hill which is 1.2km long, average 9.4% gradient and steepest at 16.8% gradient. I tried out my Grenadier up there with 200kg in the back and it was scary fast for me and didn’t stop accelerating so I had to ease off on the acceleration. I think it’ll handle long 10% gradients with ease

 

[anand]

In my opinion the B58 has plenty enough power. We have a hill nearby called Streatley hill which is 1.2km long, average 9.4% gradient and steepest at 16.8% gradient. I tried out my Grenadier up there with 200kg in the back and it was scary fast for me and didn’t stop accelerating so I had to ease off on the acceleration. I think it’ll handle long 10% gradients with ease

I will second this... Long steep grades are definitely not a problem with the stock power levels

 

[LC0013]

The stock HP and Torque of the Grenadier are 282 and 332 respectively. My 2000 LC with 205,000 miles had HP and Torque of 230 and 320 respectively when new. Now the Grenadier weighs a bit more but my LC has no problems with any of the hills in Colorado ,Wyoming and Utah unless I was behind someone from Kansas. I am not worried about any hill.

 

[hustlehard285]

In my opinion the B58 has plenty enough power. We have a hill nearby called Streatley hill which is 1.2km long, average 9.4% gradient and steepest at 16.8% gradient. I tried out my Grenadier up there with 200kg in the back and it was scary fast for me and didn’t stop accelerating so I had to ease off on the acceleration. I think it’ll handle long 10% gradients with ease

Totally. Issue out here is semis and slow visitors. We'll be going at a solid 70-75 mph uphill with no issue, then they'll pull out in front of you at 45 mph, you'll have to wait 30-60 seconds till they pass the person they're trying to pass, then they move over and you're now trying to get the vehicle back up to 70-75 mph. My 2016 LC is able to get back up to speed decently, but figured maybe something tuned with a turbo (ie the B58) will be able to handle it better.

 

[DCPU]

In my opinion the B58 has plenty enough power. We have a hill nearby called Streatley hill which is 1.2km long, average 9.4% gradient and steepest at 16.8% gradient. I tried out my Grenadier up there with 200kg in the back and it was scary fast for me and didn’t stop accelerating so I had to ease off on the acceleration. I think it’ll handle long 10% gradients with ease

You're hill climbing it now?

 

[joejet]

Has anyone tried a scanner on the car yet, I imagine a BMW profile will show some information, 1st stage to remapping

 

[Farglebah]

You're hill climbing it now?

My first thought, when I heard the Quatermaster would be at Goodwood FOS, was to wonder what time it would put in…

 

[AnD3rew]

No doubt it can be done, and done easily there Will already be tons of tunes out there for these engines from the BMW world but obviously not tailored for the Grenadiers.
The pros are obvious although I am very sceptical of tuner claims they can both increase power and torque while still reducing fuel consumption, I am no expert but that seems to defy physics. The only way I can see doing that is increasing boost pressure and leaning out the mixture which isn’t going to be good for the engine and I think you would also have to overide inputs from the knock sensors.

The downsides
- You will compromise your warranty if you care about that.
- you will most likely decrease the life of the engine and transmission, if you intend to keep the vehicle only a couple of years, probably not an issue for you (may be fore next owner) but if you intend to keep long term then probably not a great idea.
- The Petrol (gas) versions have a different Transmission which has a lower max torque rating so you will need to be careful not to exceed that limit.

 

[shiv.nandak]

I thought I remember that Ineos mentioned that they were using their own ECU? I presume that may be because BMW was reluctant to give them access to their own ECU. Keep in mind that many companies were trying to crack the BMW ECU for years. I am not sure if it's been cracked or not. I think a piggyback tune is very likely and will be the easiest to install/remove. However, I am not sure you will like the tune considering what the Grenadier's purpose is. Most of the companies providing the tunes for B58 are used to tuning for maximum HP, which is really not ideal for the Grenadier. If I were you, I would not even consider any piggyback tune or ECU flash until plenty of people have tested them for a while.

 

[anand]

Keep in mind that many companies were trying to crack the BMW ECU for years. I am not sure if it's been cracked or not.

The "normal" B58 BMW DME has long since been cracked with flashes available both from tuning shops (utilizing the "traditional" laptop-based flash) as well as DIY (handheld tuner)

 

[Farglebah]

No doubt it can be done, and done easily there Will already be tons of tunes out there for these engines from the BMW world but obviously not tailored for the Grenadiers.
.

I think you are 100% correct. This engine is in a bunch of different BMWs in different tunes (incl. Supra and Grenadier) and are issue a lot in competitive motor sports - the aftermarket tuning ecosystem is very large. I’m sure some owners will have some fun down the track.

One common comment from the tuning world is how much hp the standard B58 internals can handle and thats a great indicator for longevity of the Grenadier in its standard tune..

 

[DaBull]

From everything I have read about the petrol version of the engine it appears to be a BMW 58TU1-C or
a variant, although that may not be the exact designation Ineos and or BMW has assigned it.

Hoping the new 2024 models we will be getting in the US will have the newer updated BMW 58TU2-C engine.

To my knowledge no one has unlocked either version of these newer BMW engines ECUs except for one guy in Russia.
I spoke to a Supra owner who's friend has a newer Supra with the BMW engine in it. He sent it to this guy in Russia who unlocked it and programmed it and with a few other changes he is now pushing over 650 HP.

It's great to know that the engine is that robust. The problem is that the Grenadier's transmission will not handle much more
torque than the Grenadier Petrol Engine now puts out, so to get much more power, you would need to also upgrade
the transmission too.

It's always nice to dream, which is all I will be doing while cruising in my new Trial Master Genadier at 20,000 feet
at 600 miles an hour. DaBull

 

[Tazzieman]

If it's power you're chasing a 6.3 AMG G wagen might be a better bet?

 

[AnD3rew]

If it's power you're chasing a 6.3 AMG G wagen might be a better bet?

For the difference in price you could LS swap a Grenadier and throw in a tune and still have a chunk of change leftover.
LS9 Crate Motor

 

[gkhaldi]

The B58 has been pushed to +600hp in the Supra without issues. All in all the B58 is very tunable. The main issues are in the case of the IG: Do you really need the extra power (I for one don’t see the need. The gearing is short enough to push through anything you can throw at it) and a second but more complicated issue; the gearbox is rated for 500NM in the petrol version. The diesel gets the 700NM version. If you start to tune the B58….just know that the gearbox might fail eventually if the tune goes over the rated torque

 

[Joey]

Get your laughing gear around this:

https://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/tuning/car/ineos/grenadier-from-2022/3-0-twin-turbo-diesel-259ps-190kw-2993-ccm/

 

[DCPU]

Well found!

 

[gkhaldi]

Several more but mostly piggy back systems with questionable reliability:

TDI Tuning | Ineos Grenadier CRTD4 TRIPLE Channel With RPM Diesel Tuning Box Chip

An innovator in custom tuning systems for a vast variety of vehicles. Get up to 40% power and 20% MPG. With over 15 years of experience in the tuning industry.

tdi-tuning.com

https://chiptunings.de/shop/chiptuning-ineos-grenadier-diesel-3-0-d-183-kw-249-ps-rt-i/

For the petrol:

https://chiptunings.de/shop/chiptuning-ineos-grenadier-3-0-210-kw-286-ps-rt-x/