Turning Radius

[Tx246]

When you think you have come to the end of the lock try turning a little harder and you will find another quarter turn or so roughly...whatever turns you on

Wow, I’ve had my truck for over six months and never knew this. After reading your comment, I tried it and you’re absolutely right.

What a world of difference this makes. I can’t believe I didn’t notice this before.

 

[Zimm]

I will say this, the factory stabilizer is rather short on throw as compared to most any other vehicle in its class. It's a bit goofy and if you max out the stabilizer you will most certainly feel it. As well, I am curious about the steering pump. I'm questioning if there are programmed in steering stops where the pump stops just before the steering stops. It would do this by measuring the position of the steering wheel. This would explain the extra steering you gain by cranking the wheel hard after it stops. Basically the steering goes into manual mode. I would also suggest this is something that can be calibrated by the dealership. This is the only reason I see to have your steering wheel centered and calibrated.

If you lift up the front end you should be able to get the steering to max out the stops. You should also be able to do it fairly easily by backing up and forcing the wheel a bit. I put yellow gear marking compound on mine to verify contact. It took a bit but it did make contact. That is with an aftermarket stabilizer though. It's conceivable that the factory stabilizer may reach its limit before the knuckles do. But I cannot confirm that.

it seems really odd to pick a stabilizer that would max prior to the stops. that's just inviting free replacements of failed stabilizers.

 

[Dokatd]

it seems really odd to pick a stabilizer that would max prior to the stops. that's just inviting free replacements of failed stabilizers.

I agree, and I'm not sure it actually hits at the factory set stops, but it's damn close. So opening up the stops may result in the stabilizer becoming the new stops. I only say this because the factory part is super short stroke relative to anything else but the geometry of the steering is the same as most anything. I was actually going to try to use the Gren stabilizer on another truck because it was so stiff. But it was way too short. The typical stabilizer stroke starts at about 8", I want to say the Gren was like 7.25". I'd have to go check my notes to be certain of that measurement though.

 

[CJK]

I made two modifications to the steering on my vehicle. I replaced the steering stabilizer with the Agile Off-road/Fox shock unit which greatly improved the oversteer issue. And, I adjusted (didn’t remove) the bolt stops by about 2cm each; it improved the turn radius noticeably and I haven’t experienced any tire rub or other problems.

 

[Dokatd]

Alright, I finally got around to it and adjusted the steering stop on the knuckles. I can now oversteer the truck a fair bit more. Meaning when the power steering feels like it stalls and you can keep forcing it to turn, that feels like I'm getting a fair bit more. With that said, I am about 95% sure the power steering pump has programmed stops based on the steering sensor in the column. It's my assumption that this can be recalibrated by your dealer. And I am suspecting that Ineos had a flawed method to calibrate the steering at the factory. Meaning they didn't get full lock during calibration. As with most vehicles with solid axles you can steer into the stops and let go of the steering wheel to find the steering wheel turns backs fair bit. If you calibrated the steering wheel at that point then you will never hit the steering stops under hydraulic power. I would suggest that the truck needs to be lifted and the axle turned to full lock and manually held there by the knuckles not the steering wheel to achieve the max steering angle under power.

This is all just speculation based on observations of my personal truck. I will see if the tech at my dealer can confirm a steering lock calibration when I take my truck in for service soon.

 

[Lars]

I would be interested in seeing some objective evidence for an improvement. For those who feel there has been improvement in the turning radius, try this: Go into the Offroad menu, select "Attitude" and record the "Wheel Angle" at the top of the screen when fully locked left and right. What numbers do you get?
My numbers, in fully stock configuration, are Left 34 degrees, Right 31 degrees. I believe the correct setting according to Rok_Dr's manual should be 33+/- 0.5 degrees.

 

[Dokatd]

just checked, mine stops providing assist at 30° right and 32° left. When pushing through I end up at 39° in both directions. That is with adjusted steering stops.

If you back up and steer you will find the truck more readily goes beyond the assist. Going forward requires a fair bit of manual steering type force.

 

[Lars]

just checked, mine stops providing assist at 30° right and 32° left. When pushing through I end up at 39° in both directions. That is with adjusted steering stops.

If you back up and steer you will find the truck more readily goes beyond the assist. Going forward requires a fair bit of manual steering type force.

Fascinating, and definitely an improvement! I don't think I get any more out with continued steering, but I'll try it again...
A Carraro axle cut sheet posted on this forum back in 2023 listed several axels and they all gave a maximum steering angle of 40 degrees, so it that's correct you are still within axle specifications.

 

[255/85]

We don't know what the limit is for the double cardan joints in the stub axles so this doesn't seem like an area to mess about with.
The steering box has an internal travel limit that will come into play.

I'm currently rebuiding a Saginaw recirculating ball steering box. Research suggested that pushing these boxes to the maximum sector shaft angle at either end of their swing - even on the bench - can result in internal damage. I know the one used by Ineos is from a different manufacturer but the same caveat may apply.

 

[Clark Kent]

I'm currently rebuiding a Saginaw recirculating ball steering box. Research suggested that pushing these boxes to the maximum sector shaft angle at either end of their swing - even on the bench - can result in internal damage. I know the one used by Ineos is from a different manufacturer but the same caveat may apply.

That's my expectation. The small amount of additional steering angle that can be gained by pushing past the lock - it's hard to know where that's coming from but it seems mechanically unfriendly to exploit it.

I'll say it again: If IA could have delivered a better turning circle without compromising durability or reliability I'm sure they would have done so. There's a reason they set the stops where they did. It wasn't done just to pi$$ off owners.

 

[DaveB]

I'm not in a hurry and don't mind an occasional 3 point turn.

Go to drive through and it will be a 7 point turn.
Still don't care though

 

[Tazzieman]

This quote from IA still rings in my ears.
"Our team has thoroughly inspected a vehicle and we strongly advise against performing this operation. It is important to allow the steering to reach its stop point naturally and avoid pulling on the steering wheel. During the inspection, our team observed signs of stress on the steering components caused by the additional load exerted when forcing the steering."

 

[Dokatd]

That's my expectation. The small amount of additional steering angle that can be gained by pushing past the lock - it's hard to know where that's coming from but it seems mechanically unfriendly to exploit it.

I'll say it again: If IA could have delivered a better turning circle without compromising durability or reliability I'm sure they would have done so. There's a reason they set the stops where they did. It wasn't done just to pi$$ off owners.

Very well could have been solely to protect the operator from steering to much while locked. I suspect this is the case more than anything. Or it could be to reduce the steering angle to prevent rollovers to pass safety tests.

This quote from IA still rings in my ears.
"Our team has thoroughly inspected a vehicle and we strongly advise against performing this operation. It is important to allow the steering to reach its stop point naturally and avoid pulling on the steering wheel. During the inspection, our team observed signs of stress on the steering components caused by the additional load exerted when forcing the steering."

I call BS on that. The truck can't hit the steering stops under power but can "naturally". They either set them all wrong which wouldn't surprise me, or they have done something odd to limit steering by power but still allow the axle to steer more under external forces.

It takes a fair bit of force to steer the truck to the point that the axle stops make contact. This is not normal on any other vehicle that I am aware of. Pushing against a rock with wheels turned will easily max out the axle stops and everything up stream. BS is all this is. Ineos once again made a mistake both in design, implementation and statement from a dealership.

 

[Tazzieman]

Very well could have been solely to protect the operator from steering to much while locked. I suspect this is the case more than anything. Or it could be to reduce the steering angle to prevent rollovers to pass safety tests.

I call BS on that. The truck can't hit the steering stops under power but can "naturally". They either set them all wrong which wouldn't surprise me, or they have done something odd to limit steering by power but still allow the axle to steer more under external forces.

It takes a fair bit of force to steer the truck to the point that the axle stops make contact. This is not normal on any other vehicle that I am aware of. Pushing against a rock with wheels turned will easily max out the axle stops and everything up stream. BS is all this is. Ineos once again made a mistake both in design, implementation and statement from a dealership.

But you still love your purchase

 

[lightning]

That’s dumb. Why would the factory preemptively set the steering stops at a location to anticipate aftermarket wheels, at the cost of letter turning radius.

I think these are simply urban myths passed around

Well, l had five Defenders and on all of them l adjusted the lock stops to improve the turning circle.
One of them was bought new. l guess they put in an element of safety in the standard settings.
lf the owner fitted different tyres maybe, that were a little wider than the factory tyres.

 

[Zimm]

Very well could have been solely to protect the operator from steering to much while locked. I suspect this is the case more than anything. Or it could be to reduce the steering angle to prevent rollovers to pass safety tests.

I call BS on that. The truck can't hit the steering stops under power but can "naturally". They either set them all wrong which wouldn't surprise me, or they have done something odd to limit steering by power but still allow the axle to steer more under external forces.

It takes a fair bit of force to steer the truck to the point that the axle stops make contact. This is not normal on any other vehicle that I am aware of. Pushing against a rock with wheels turned will easily max out the axle stops and everything up stream. BS is all this is. Ineos once again made a mistake both in design, implementation and statement from a dealership.

the whole wheel yank method is weird, and would never do it, but... it is weird.

 

[Dokatd]

Ok, a whole day of driving around with adjusted stops. First thing ai notice is that the degrees shown on the dash are not overly accurate. Second, I am regularly and naturally exceeding 33° now in parking lots. Yes it's still beyond the power point, but all I am doing is applying typical pressure to the wheel and it keeps turning more and more. I am not "forcing" the wheel. I have forced it a couple times just to see what it feels like. Regardless, it has already made parking lots work much easier and I don't feel like I need to back into parking spaces as much.

I will try to put new marking compound on the stops to see if I am hitting them at any point. All I did to adjust was gently run the jam nut up to where the threads stop on the bolts. That stops the jam nut about 1/8" from making contact to the bolt head. Then locked it all in at that point. That gave me about 7-8° more steering according to the off-road display.