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Trump tariff. Ineos Automotive is dead right?

May I ask why they think the steering is not for them? Is it just a lack of experience with a proper off-road recirculating ball system or naively wanting the pampered feeling they are used to from other wannabe off-roaders? I know it is a well-visited topic, but I cannot get my head around the fact that this is any sort of a deal-breaker. It is likely that they are correct, it is not for them - they really do not realise what this vehicle is for - sure it looks "cool" but it isn't for popping to the shops to get your nails done.
First, drop the idea about recirculating ball being in anyway part of the problem. This is just the best excuse Ineos or anyone else can come up with. There are plenty of recirc steering vehicles that drive just fine. The problem is a caster a steering damper issue. Both ultimately a choice by Ineos.

As for the rest of your question, yes these people expect to use this as an estate car. But they have no estate. They live in densely populated micro cities that are carved out of the middle of a mega city. Literally surface streets and highways for 45min in either direction. They want the Grenadier or even a G wagon etc to drive down the street to pickup their latest boutique find. They are all about getting things the way they want them. This area was debatably one of the highest concentrations of the 1993 Defender 110 when they were first introduced to the states. And likely at one point the highest density of D90's in 94,95,97. But they almost all sat in garages or side yards as trophies.

But you know what, they created a market for them. Tariffs be damned, they would just buy more of them. But everyone I have talked to has come back saying wow the steering is awful. They don't care if it's meant to go off-road. It looks like a normal vehicle, it operates mostly like a normal vehicle and should drive like a normal vehicle in their minds. So they most end up reverting back to their $120k Cadillac Escalades, G wagons and the new Lexus thing. Oh and $100k plus range rovers of course.

This is not a thread about steering and so I will leave it at that, but it was a mistake by Ineos to be sure. Steering like a pre engineering students first go kart is not a prerequisite to being a serious off road vehicle. Ineos screwed the pooch.
 
I think it's more that actual G-Wagen consumers aren't actually serious Grenadier shoppers. I mean let's be honest with ourselves, the interior styling, materials, fit and finish are in different leagues. Not to mention the average sale price being roughly $100k higher than a optioned out Grenadier. The data supports this, the first year the Grenadier is offered in the US the G-Wagen had its best sales year ever.
The Gren is intriguing to the G wagon buyer. Lots of G buyers are looking at a second, third or 4th vehicle. They want something unique and cool. The Grenadier fits that bill. But they are seemingly ultimately turned off when it comes time to buy. I have literally seen this played out amongst some freinds. I think had Ineos baked the idea a bit longer they may have more easily broken that market. Or even the Bronco market. Everyone lusts for a D90 or D110. The fact that they cost upwards of $100k now shows this. Ineos either missed the requisite price point or failed to deliver a product that met the expectations. The stock pile of them at the local dealer proves that out.
 
The fact that they cost upwards of $100k now shows this. Ineos either missed the requisite price point or failed to deliver a product that met the expectations. The stock pile of them at the local dealer proves that out.
Or maybe, when somebody says what do you drive, the response Ineos Grenadier produces completely blank looks 90% of the time.
 
May I ask why they think the steering is not for them? Is it just a lack of experience with a proper off-road recirculating ball system or naively wanting the pampered feeling they are used to from other wannabe off-roaders? I know it is a well-visited topic, but I cannot get my head around the fact that this is any sort of a deal-breaker. It is likely that they are correct, it is not for them - they really do not realise what this vehicle is for - sure it looks "cool" but it isn't for popping to the shops to get your nails done.
Hi Tomdoc
There must be some issues with the steering, as lots of guys have come from solid axle vehicles. Like you, I have absolutely no problems with the steering on my Grenadier. I know that in the US, average speeds can be well over 80 MPH. Is that where the issues arise? I have no idea.
 
Hi Tomdoc
There must be some issues with the steering, as lots of guys have come from solid axle vehicles. Like you, I have absolutely no problems with the steering on my Grenadier. I know that in the US, average speeds can be well over 80 MPH. Is that where the issues arise? I have no idea.
You are correct to a degree. The return to center is the primary issue. This is exacerbated by cruising speeds over about 60mph. Here in Texas we have some speed limits of 85mph.

Short of the annoyance of little to no self centering, the Grenadier is fine below about 60mph. Driving to the store is fine. Annoying in stock configuration but fine non the less. But depending on seemingly your trucks build possibly, speed in the 70's and 80's get very taxing and debatably dangerous.

Regardless, the 30-40yr old soccer moms of the world cant adjust to the lack of self centering and reject the vehicle. Sadly it's something that can be solved to suit both soccer moms and the hard core wheeler. At least hard core to stockish grenadier standards which is not that hard core.
 
You are correct to a degree. The return to center is the primary issue. This is exacerbated by cruising speeds over about 60mph. Here in Texas we have some speed limits of 85mph.

Short of the annoyance of little to no self centering, the Grenadier is fine below about 60mph. Driving to the store is fine. Annoying in stock configuration but fine non the less. But depending on seemingly your trucks build possibly, speed in the 70's and 80's get very taxing and debatably dangerous.

Regardless, the 30-40yr old soccer moms of the world cant adjust to the lack of self centering and reject the vehicle. Sadly it's something that can be solved to suit both soccer moms and the hard core wheeler. At least hard core to stockish grenadier standards which is not that hard core.
Hi Dokatd
Although the return to centre is a little slow, I have found absolutely no issues. Likewise I regularly drive at around 65 MPH and have never sensed a problem. Perhaps this is because I come from an old Defender Td5 that I have owned for 20 years.
 
Hi Dokatd
Although the return to centre is a little slow, I have found absolutely no issues. Likewise I regularly drive at around 65 MPH and have never sensed a problem. Perhaps this is because I come from an old Defender Td5 that I have owned for 20 years.
No problem here either
 
May I ask why they think the steering is not for them? Is it just a lack of experience with a proper off-road recirculating ball system or naively wanting the pampered feeling they are used to from other wannabe off-roaders? I know it is a well-visited topic, but I cannot get my head around the fact that this is any sort of a deal-breaker. It is likely that they are correct, it is not for them - they really do not realise what this vehicle is for - sure it looks "cool" but it isn't for popping to the shops to get your nails done.
A recirculating ball system typically has an effortless feel lacking feedback, but it has NOTHING to do with wandering, dead center, and lack of return to center. Not having enough camber for pavement driving in no way benefits offroad driving. It's not a tradeoff. You'll never notice 2* more camber in mud or rocks. My Gwagon has the steering same system, with a solid front axle, and none of the complaints. Lifted and 30 years later, it handles fine. Ride compliance with the 4 link isnt IFS, but it is quite a noticeable improvement.
 
I still don't understand why folks are taking it as a given that any significant number of people are legitimately cross shopping G-class and Grenadier.
 
I still don't understand why folks are taking it as a given that any significant number of people are legitimately cross shopping G-class and Grenadier.
I suspect that as G Wagon customers learn of the similarities in build and design, provided opulence and posing isn't their main concern. The Grenadier will start to make a lot of sense.
 
I suspect that as G Wagon customers learn of the similarities in build and design, provided opulence and posing isn't their main concern. The Grenadier will start to make a lot of sense.
In what world is 'opulence', fit, materials, features and finish not a concern for people shopping in the G-class price point? The Grenadier interior for example is nowhere near the G-class or the full size Range Rover for that matter. I think ya'll need to try to think of this from a non-enthusiast perspective.

Might as well say we are just waiting for Bentley buyers to find out about the Grenadier lmao
 
In what world is 'opulence', fit and finish not a concern for people shopping in the G-class price point?
Simply me, assuming that not all G Wagon owners buy one for the opulent interior alone.
I'm guessing that many enjoy the quality and solidity, which they would also find in the Grenadier. The simplicity, combined with build quality of the Grenadier, has an appeal that may attract wealthy customers tired of being cosseted, and wanting something a little different.
Plus: The assumption that all G Wagon owners are dripping in wealth, might not be so accurate. How many are heavily financed? My dealer told me that most Grenadier purchases from his dealership were cash.
 
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. The G-class put up record sales numbers in 2024 and this forum is convinced that is where all the Grenadier buyer market is....:ROFLMAO:

I like the car but it's plasticky af (and not pleasant soft touch plastic, hard cheap feeling plastic), hvac whistles like a construction worker, it is feature sparse, bad audio, etc. It's really not fair to the Grenadier to have expectations that the typical G-class customers are going to buy Grenadiers instead.
 
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Simply me, assuming that not all G Wagon owners buy one for the opulent interior alone.
I'm guessing that many enjoy the quality and solidity, which they would also find in the Grenadier. The simplicity, combined with build quality of the Grenadier, has an appeal that may attract wealthy customers tired of being cosseted, and wanting something a little different.
Plus: The assumption that all G Wagon owners are dripping in wealth, might not be so accurate. How many are heavily financed? My dealer told me that most Grenadier purchases from his dealership were cash.
It depends on the write down laws of each country I'm sure, but If they were being quoted 9%, yea, cash, but at 2.9% that makes them morons or bad credit.
 
It depends on the write down laws of each country I'm sure, but If they were being quoted 9%, yea, cash, but at 2.9% that makes them morons or bad credit.
In the UK, finance tends to be higher than the best savings rates, unless they are keen to move selected metal.
 
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