Trump announces 25% tariff on all imported vehicles!

[DaveB]

You can't take this shit too seriously. The man is severely mentally ill, and it will he held up by thousands of lawsuits. The lunatics are highly insecure and suffer from many capacitative ailments. The weak-minded will lash out loudly in fear and confusion when the realities of the world are too much for them to comprehend. This man can not conjugate a verb or even finish a sentence correctly.

Todays winner for using the phrase "conjugate a verb" on the Ineos website.
I truly thought @tassieman would be the first.

 

[DaveB]

I hope that they make the Grenadier in the US. It is a key market, supplier BMW is already here and, if the Quartermaster is subject to the chicken tax, manufacturing it here would change the economics. I think I read that Lynn Calder had looked at it a few years ago.

I got the impression they were looking at making it in Mexico for the NA and SA markets.
I guess that just went downhill.
I was told by a dealer the other day that the Quartermaster is now outselling the wagon in Australia and particularly the Cab chassis version.

 

[Shopkeep]

Somebody told Trump that US cars get ~20% VAT in Europe. Forgot to tell that same applies to European and all other cars too.

This potential for reciprocal tariffs on countries that use a VAT/GST system (i.e. most of the free world) is the one that I just can't get my head around. How does that advantage a locally made vehicle (or any other product) over an imported vehicle sold in that market?

 

[LeeroyJ]

the inmates are running the asylum

97% sure this is a stunt to boost $TSLA stock

This will hurt Tesla too, depending on the model, only 60 to 70% of Tesla vehicles counts as US and Canadian content. The rest is elsewhere. The National Highway Traffic Administration doesn't provide the breakdown between US and Canadian content, see here for the list.

What I bet Trump doesn't understand is that the traditional US MFG like GM, Ford, and Stellantis (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram) for their average models are only at 20-40% US content, while manufacturers like Honda and Hyundai are in the 60-80% range. If you really want to support US auto manufacturing, then you should be pushing electric cars because those models are the ones with the highest US content across most brands.

None of this is logical.

 

[Shopkeep]

I hope that they make the Grenadier in the US. It is a key market, supplier BMW is already here and, if the Quartermaster is subject to the chicken tax, manufacturing it here would change the economics. I think I read that Lynn Calder had looked at it a few years ago.

Would require the entire drivetrain to be redesigned and replaced with locally made components, the 25% tariff will apply to these components which make up a big chunk of the total value of the vehicle (if they stick with BMW/ZF/Carraro/Brembo). Probably cheaper to keep current factory, cut costs as much as possible and ride out the next four years hoping for regime change at the next election (if there is one????)

 

[DaveB]

This will hurt Tesla too, depending on the model, only 60 to 70% of Tesla vehicles counts as US and Canadian content. The rest is elsewhere. The National Highway Traffic Administration doesn't provide the breakdown between US and Canadian content, see here for the list.

What I bet Trump doesn't understand is that the traditional US MFG like GM, Ford, and Stellantis (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram) for their average models are only at 20-40% US content, while manufacturers like Honda and Hyundai are in the 60-80% range. If you really want to support US auto manufacturing, then you should be pushing electric cars because those models are the ones with the highest US content across most brands.

None of this is logical.

He seems to also think you can build an aluminium smelting plant in 6 weeks instead of 6 years
This is no doubt fake, but amusing none the less.
I feel if we continue down this line of comments we may breach the forum rules about stating the obvious.

 

[mcdoogs]

This will hurt Tesla too, depending on the model, only 60 to 70% of Tesla vehicles counts as US and Canadian content. The rest is elsewhere. The National Highway Traffic Administration doesn't provide the breakdown between US and Canadian content, see here for the list.

What I bet Trump doesn't understand is that the traditional US MFG like GM, Ford, and Stellantis (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram) for their average models are only at 20-40% US content, while manufacturers like Honda and Hyundai are in the 60-80% range. If you really want to support US auto manufacturing, then you should be pushing electric cars because those models are the ones with the highest US content across most brands.

None of this is logical.

Oh common confusion here, you are talking about Tesla the company. I was only referring to TSLA the meme stonk. They have had very little to do with each other for years

We’ll probably see more of the same patterns we’ve had these last two months. Dumb tariff rhetoric, stock market tanks, tariffs get backed down or pushed out a month. Rinse and repeat until things really start to break (enough uncertainty and it really only needs one or two major negative catalysts to black swan).

 

[Tazzieman]

Todays winner for using the phrase "conjugate a verb" on the Ineos website.
I truly thought @tassieman would be the first.

I conjugated a verb one Friday night when I was at Uni. Fun times!

 

[AngusMacG]

It's about trying to bring manufacturing back to the US. Hyundai has announced bring a steel factory to the US for use for Hyundai vehicles. Ineos hinted at the possibility of a US factory almost a year ago so maybe the tariffs will be an incentive to push that forward. With solid plans it could delay a tariff on Ineos vehicles before the plant is built.

 

[mcdoogs]

It's about trying to bring manufacturing back to the US. Hyundai has announced bring a steel factory to the US for use for Hyundai vehicles. Ineos hinted at the possibility of a US factory almost a year ago so maybe the tariffs will be an incentive to push that forward. With solid plans it could delay a tariff on Ineos vehicles before the plant is built.

Still keeping that torch burning?

 

[AFdude412]

This thread has gone off the rails.

 

[DaveB]

It's about trying to bring manufacturing back to the US. Hyundai has announced bring a steel factory to the US for use for Hyundai vehicles. Ineos hinted at the possibility of a US factory almost a year ago so maybe the tariffs will be an incentive to push that forward. With solid plans it could delay a tariff on Ineos vehicles before the plant is built.

It would take 3-6 years minimum to build an ICE vehicle manufacturing plant from scratch.
Plus it would need to manufacture a vehicle the US market wants and in sufficient volume.
Sadly it would still need to use imported steel, aluminium and components, as they are just not made in the US at the moment, or if so they are non competitive or opposition manufactured.
Ineos purchased an existing, modern, operating, ex Mercedes factory, with an abundant and experienced workforce.
It still took them many years to get it close to right.

Hyundai may have announced they will but in reality they only have to dither for another 3 years until common sense prevails.

 

[Reducs]

Remember when Foxconn announced a multi-billion dollar facility in Wisconsin in 2017? Announcing something to curry favor and actually executing said plans are two very different things.

Wisconn Valley Science and Technology Park - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[parb]

Tariffs are economic warfare. a fairly medium intensity economic warfare but nonetheless its warfare. Why are we at economic war with europe?
We are literally pushing europe towards china rather than towards US.

 

[Nadir5]

Lynn Calder had already anticipated this in the existing pricing - see previous media releases. Plus commercial trucks already have the chicken tax which was accounted for prior to US pricing decisions so it’s no different. IMO this is a non event for Ineos sales in the USA.

It’s not a non-event if we here in the US plan on servicing/repairing our trucks - the tariff includes parts, not just completed vehicles.

 

[AFdude412]

Anyone else tracking the phases of Tuckman’s Stages of Group Development? I.e. Military leadership 101…

Storming, Norming, then Performing.

Storming characteristics:
High conflict, division, polarization.
Constant debates about leadership, values, and power.
Mistrust between groups (political parties, cultural movements, generations).
Disagreements about what the society should be.
Institutional strain (economy, government, social contracts).

Seem familiar?


Norming will happen when the economic policies find balance and large changes happen here in the US like a reduction of taxes, trade deficits wiped out, interest rates reduced, etc. We will find agreement with each other again. Can’t wait!


Performing will be a period of renewed economic growth, societal cohesion, and focused innovation (think post-WWII boom or post-90s tech boom).

Welcome to the STORM!

 

[Tazzieman]

Tariffs are economic warfare. a fairly medium intensity economic warfare but nonetheless its warfare. Why are we at economic war with europe?
We are literally pushing europe towards china rather than towards US.

You are also at war with Australia and others. It will end in tears.
Certainly Australians will buy Chinese right now. Even though we don't trust them. Who can you trust, if old allies give you the middle finger?

 

[DaveB]

Would require the entire drivetrain to be redesigned and replaced with locally made components, the 25% tariff will apply to these components which make up a big chunk of the total value of the vehicle (if they stick with BMW/ZF/Carraro/Brembo). Probably cheaper to keep current factory, cut costs as much as possible and ride out the next four years hoping for regime change at the next election (if there is one????)

I thought BMW made the entire X series in Spartanburg USA but turns out they just assemble them.
Their engines are imported along with many of the other components.
You have to love the way Tesla break it down.

I think so many vehicle and other prices will be going up that Ineos will just be lost in the chatter.
Nobody actually buys them because they are cheap.
I think if their sales drop in US by 50% that is just 4,000 - 5,000 vehicles.
China and Brazil will buy that quantity easily.

 

[DaveB]

Remember when Foxconn announced a multi-billion dollar facility in Wisconsin in 2017? Announcing something to curry favor and actually executing said plans are two very different things.

Wisconn Valley Science and Technology Park - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Exactly!!

 

[DaveB]

Anyone else tracking the phases of Tuckman’s Stages of Group Development? I.e. Military leadership 101…

Storming, Norming, then Performing.

Storming characteristics:
High conflict, division, polarization.
Constant debates about leadership, values, and power.
Mistrust between groups (political parties, cultural movements, generations).
Disagreements about what the society should be.
Institutional strain (economy, government, social contracts).

Seem familiar?


Norming will happen when the economic policies find balance and large changes happen here in the US like a reduction of taxes, trade deficits wiped out, interest rates reduced, etc. We will find agreement with each other again. Can’t wait!


Performing will be a period of renewed economic growth, societal cohesion, and focused innovation (think post-WWII boom or post-90s tech boom).

Welcome to the STORM!

In 2 years the race for the next election starts and everything else is forgotten.
Both sides will promise whatever they think the punters want to hear, knowing they will never need to deliver on it.
Unless Trump becomes a dictator officially in the meantime. (possible sadly)

So many previous countries tried isolast policies and soon discovered they were going broke.
Once all the Mexicans and South Americans are kicked out you will discover there is nobody willing or able to be building labourers on houses, work as nannies or house cleaners.
Pick fruit and work the fields, break down stolen cars (oops)
They do these jobs for cash, daily hire and with no unions or rules.
White folk may think they want these jobs but in reality I doubt it.