Trump announces 25% tariff on all imported vehicles!

[Tazzieman]

That is how I understood JD Vance's "peasant" comment:

Many people, some even on this forum, would understand him to be another rich , condescending prick who hides behind lawyers!

 

[Jeremy996]

I understand a peasant to be tied to the land that they do not own. They lack the autonomy and freedom that are the ideal of post Enlightenment Western Civilization in part because they lack property that allows them to make decisions that differ from official government policy. In communist and other dictatorship / oligarchical systems, property ownership is either absent or ownership's prerogatives are highly constrained. That is how I understood JD Vance's "peasant" comment: no matter how well educated a citizen of China is, he is still a "peasant" in his lack of autonomy. Being a peasant goes with the territory if you live in a communist country.

I think he fundimentally misunderstands Chinese communisum. Centralised direction for the communal good reduces personal automny but speeds up change desired by the central party. It is both a strength and a weakness and is underestimated at your peril.

So long as the Chinese central party can keep a lid on social cohesion, they can out-compete the western world by ignoring everything other than the main chance. The West needs to understand that chasing profit is not the only objective; the western commercial sector has forgotten that, the Chinese never did.

 

[Gaffer]

I think he fundimentally misunderstands Chinese communisum. Centralised direction for the communal good reduces personal automny but speeds up change desired by the central party. It is both a strength and a weakness and is underestimated at your peril.

So long as the Chinese central party can keep a lid on social cohesion, they can out-compete the western world by ignoring everything other than the main chance. The West needs to understand that chasing profit is not the only objective; the western commercial sector has forgotten that, the Chinese never did.

I agree with Jeremy996 that "Centralised direction for the communal good reduces personal automny but speeds up change desired by the central party." Given that theft of intellectual property is part of the Chinese business model, it is powerful indeed. Copying others leapfrogs the failures that the western innovators endure to get to the point where their innovation is worthy of theft.

But, excluding theft of intellectual property from Western innovators, the central party makes decisions based upon its judgments. In other words, "change desired by the central party" is informed by its observations but is uniformed by market mechanisms, such as pricing signals. Moreover, its judgment may reflect extraneous factors like the party's earlier commitments or the interests of the decision makers. So, as workmanlike as its judgments may be, the communist system leads to stagnation and continued erosion of individual rights.

The current Chinese model is vastly more effective than the Great Leap Forward. But it shares the same DNA.

 

[nuclearbeef]

I cannot know whether tariffs will be the catalyst of greater US wealth, higher middle class incomes and so forth. But it is plausible, has precedent in pre-Civil War US economic development and is, as far as I know, the best idea on offer.

I suppose no one can truly KNOW; but, i has been tried before...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuOHbyuanbY

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I suppose no one can truly KNOW; but, i has been tried before...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuOHbyuanbY

I am having the same reaction to this whole discussion - and I have a MBA from the University of Chicago. Nerdery aside, it still puts me into a coma.

 

[Gaffer]

I suppose no one can truly KNOW; but, i has been tried before...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuOHbyuanbY

My eyes are glazing over too. But the environment during the Great Depression was a combination of a post WWI speculative bubble fueled by easy money, plus excess capacity. That is not the same our environment and an initiative to overcome and combat the effects of decades of trade barriers.

 

[Tazzieman]

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."

Mark Twain

 

[DaveB]

Yep.....any day now those Tariffs are going to kick in and save the economy

 

[Gaffer]

I would look for benefits to take place, if they do, beginning in 3-5 years. It may take that long for factories to be built and distribution to be reconfigured. The stock market (S&P 500, above) will anticipate it about nine months prior.

 

[Tazzieman]

I would look for benefits to take place, if they do, beginning in 3-5 years.

So after China invades Taiwan?

 

[Zimm]

I would look for benefits to take place, if they do, beginning in 3-5 years. It may take that long for factories to be built and distribution to be reconfigured. The stock market (S&P 500, above) will anticipate it about nine months prior.