Top Gear Magazine review and online review (UK)

“For all it owes to the Defender and G-Wagen, the Ineos Grenadier has lots of character of its own”

Ineos Grenadier Review 2023 | Top Gear

For all it owes to the Defender and G-Wagen, the Ineos Grenadier has lots of character of its own

www.topgear.com

 

[JOB]

Nothing in the article is new to us...except I'd never heard of Daylesford Organics in the Cotswolds.

Possibly the on road perceptions just serve to confirm what we suspected. I was glad to read it.

 

[Krabby]

In all honesty, I bet it was a dumb oversight. Had TG put the edition on display for sale at the store, they would be clearly violating the embargo. Someone didn’t think far enough ahead to hold the delivery schedule though, so that’s how it happened. The ”dates” on magazines received in the mail are always early-eg I get my Car and Driver in early/mid month for the next month. So on, let’s say, Feb 15, the March edition might arrive.

 

[Hobbes]

The issue with the lockers sounds exactly like the problem I faced on my demo drive. rear andfront locker didn’t lock in. It needed some steering and driving to convince the rear one. The front one wasn’t keen to work at all. But that has been a PTO2.

Toyota 80 series factory lockers are electric. Sounds maybe similar. The cogs have to align. Different wheel speed allows this to happen. After engaging the switch, you sometimes have to do a left/right turn to get the alignment. It’s more noticeable on the rear diff, or when it’s been a long time since they’ve been exercised. After decades of being on the market, no one seems to care much.

But maybe the early IGs have something else going on…

 

[Chris]

Just curious, would you know when these magazines get into shops, although I’ve read it, would still like a copy

Subscribers editions are out about a week before they get into the shops, AND, we get a subscribers only front cover!

 

[JOB]

The electronic locking diffs in my 1993 300GE always worked perfectly. They didn’t make it up when they said “Engineered Like No Other Car in the World” - not built by accident, on purpose either.

 

[Trialmaster]

Nothing in the article is new to us...except I'd never heard of Daylesford Organics in the Cotswolds.

It's a Huge shop on JCB's back door. Sells high end food stuffs and drinks and where all those perceived to have money go in flash 4wd, typically RR's.

 

[OzyGrenie]

Most car magazines and their editors only have self interests - the next trip or accommodation paid for by manufacturers.

 

[Disco Dave]

This makes me a bit chirpy that I went with the petrol version

During my test drive in Australia, the “instructor” praised the petrol engine on 2 occasions (uninitiated) - basically saying how much better it was. He initially wanted the diesel version (economy, torque), but now didnt really know which to get. As through an auto trans, the petrol is better.

 

[Solmanic]

I agree the electric front and rear diff locks may be problematic. They seem very similar to the W463 G-Wagen type. I’ve been caught out once or twice not engaging them early enough. They take a moment to lock in and by that stage you can be properly stuck. They can also be temperamental when disengaging and we even had the front solenoid stick (unlocked fortunately) and had to get it freed up by our mechanic.

 

[grenadierboy]

What about the Top Gear review rating though - only 7/10.

I bet INEOS would not be happy with that, although I don't read the TG magazine so I don't know if they are hard markers.

Anyway, it's just one review and I guess no car gets a Nadia but, I reckon IA would have been ecstatic with a 9/10 and certainly expecting an 8/10 for a 4x4 built on purpose but, 7/10 is sort of average isn't it?

 

[AnD3rew]

My current vehicle is a Mitsubishi Pajero Sport which also has an Eaton Harrop e locker in the rear and it is fiddly getting it to engage. One thing I have learnt is to engage the locker BEFORE you need it, don’t wait till you are stuck in a muddy hole to try to engage it (ask me how I know)

 

[Tazzieman]

What about the Top Gear review rating though - only 7/10.

I bet INEOS would not be happy with that, although I don't read the TG magazine so I don't know if they are hard markers.

Anyway, it's just one review and I guess no car gets a Nadia but, I reckon IA would have been ecstatic with a 9/10 and certainly expecting an 8/10 for a 4x4 built on purpose but, 7/10 is sort of average isn't it?

If it's just one journo I would ignore that unless he has a strictly anal spreadsheet marking system.
Plus what is his experience with driving 4x4s of all types in all conditions?
Does he dislike the project for any reason? (hidden/biased agendas)
It's like Rotten Tomatoes film review site. You need a decent sample to take the average.

 

[Shopkeep]

What about the Top Gear review rating though - only 7/10.

I bet INEOS would not be happy with that, although I don't read the TG magazine so I don't know if they are hard markers.

Anyway, it's just one review and I guess no car gets a Nadia but, I reckon IA would have been ecstatic with a 9/10 and certainly expecting an 8/10 for a 4x4 built on purpose but, 7/10 is sort of average isn't it?

Top Gear are more road/track biased, the article was interesting but no real substance about its off-road performance. Any road focused journo who is not passionate about the basic Grenadier philosophy is automatically going to deduct heavily just for the RHD foot rest and driving position issue.
Will be more interesting to see the reaction from the 4x4 focused outlets.

 

[grenadierboy]

Did INEOS publish a list of the reviewer publications?

 

[DenisM]

Never thought of the Top Gear mag. as an authoritative source for anything just another "Joe Blow"on a jolly in Scotland at Sir Jim's expense! There were absolutely no "showstoppers" in the article. There are any number of reasons why a diff lock solenoid might be slow to react... Besides which, there were clear instructions to "stop and wait" as part of the engagement process. I've witnessed similar issues with the well known air compressor driven brand as well...
Those who work in organisation settings may recall the "360 degree feedback" fad that is supposed to provide unequivocal proof of a person's suitability or
otherwise for a particular job.... my take on it is a simple exercise where 359 other subjectively biased assessments are sought to confirm the boss's initial bias...
So too the oft quoted group think with motoring journalists.
I signed up for the Grenadier because of the initial detailed "pitch", the systems engineering, reputation of the suppliers and the Steyr connection. Two drive experiences, and more detailed hands-on assessment at the local showroom have confirmed my choice.... I'll be interested to see others' reports.

 

[AnD3rew]

If it's just one journo I would ignore that unless he has a strictly anal spreadsheet marking system.
Plus what is his experience with driving 4x4s of all types in all conditions?
Does he dislike the project for any reason? (hidden/biased agendas)
It's like Rotten Tomatoes film review site. You need a decent sample to take the average.

Top gear is a generic publication not an overlander or 4x4 publication, if you rate a Grenadier with that in mind I would have thought 7/10 is pretty good. If an overlander or 4x4 touring publication rated it 7/10 then that would give more cause for thought

 

[MrMike]

During my test drive in Australia, the “instructor” praised the petrol engine on 2 occasions (uninitiated) - basically saying how much better it was. He initially wanted the diesel version (economy, torque), but now didnt really know which to get. As through an auto trans, the petrol is better.

The Instructor can say that as he is not paying to fill the vehicle but can understand that from a driving perspective

 

[bemax]

During my test drive in Australia, the “instructor” praised the petrol engine on 2 occasions (uninitiated) - basically saying how much better it was. He initially wanted the diesel version (economy, torque), but now didnt really know which to get. As through an auto trans, the petrol is better.

All instructors I met and heard of have been in favour of the petrol engine. I just do not know whether there is a system behind it. The petrol engine will be cheaper to purchase from BMW I presume. So IA makes more money when selling the petrol engine.
I remember some journalists, driving at the first journalists event last year, mentioned that the diesel engine is smoother than the petrol one.
For me it’s about the efficiency. The Grenadier will be much more efficient with the diesel engine than with the petrol engine. On longer runs it will make a reasonable big difference. As the taxes for the petrol engine are only slightly lower and the insurance hopefully will not differ to much as well it is a no brainer to me.
But I have to admit that I like the idea of owning petrol straight six from BMW. It is a formidable piece of motor!

 

[Shaky]

Not a great start for the IG reviews but it certainly isn’t a bad start. I have ordered a petrol version so feel happy about that bit.

In just a few more days we will hear from the whole range of journos who went on the jolly. Will be interesting if the locker issue is user error or hesitancy from the kit itself.

As for the rear view windows, then every 4x4 I have had has not had a great view of where I have just been so that was a given really.

For me it will be the pedal spacing and lump in the RHD vehicles, after driving for 2hrs….will it be a real pain ?? It will certainly be brought up in every review, that’s for sure.

 

[globalgregors]

What about the Top Gear review rating though - only 7/10.

I bet INEOS would not be happy with that, although I don't read the TG magazine so I don't know if they are hard markers.

Anyway, it's just one review and I guess no car gets a Nadia but, I reckon IA would have been ecstatic with a 9/10 and certainly expecting an 8/10 for a 4x4 built on purpose but, 7/10 is sort of average isn't it?

Surely the relentless softening of 4WDs into SUVs occurs on the back of market research.

My Disco Sport is lighter, faster, cleaner running, more economical, safer, more comfortable… all while being only slightly less capable than an old Defender.
Problem is that it is less durable, more complex and difficult to service in the field.
It is also designed around modular assemblies/systems which make it quick but costly to repair (eg power steering motor failure? Repair SOP is to replace the rack).

One presumes that even these compromises have been market tested, if only indirectly.

In order for Ineos to hand us back the attributes we desire (simplicity, robustness, field serviceability) they are sacrificing features that the mainstream market desires.
WE are the niche market. Market wants better on road/at speed performance and agility so nearly all manufacturers move to independent suspension. Not us, we’d rather have the option to select our own suspension setup aftermarket, and we’ll live with the downsides of rigid axles.

Would we not expect that most publications will rate the Grenadier with mainstream market expectations as their yardstick?
As we’ve discussed elsewhere around ICE vs EVs, I don’t think the general public (even the legion of ute buyers) is likely to share our enthusiasm.