The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

Time and the woke against us…..

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bruce

Global Grenadier #51
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
10:30 AM
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
894
Reaction score
1,286
Location
Washington, USA
replace yourself or chose not to but no more than that (y)
I didn't even want to replace myself, but the wife already had her mind made up.

1701111692357.gif
 

klarie

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
7:30 PM
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
1,064
Reaction score
2,297
Location
Rhine - Main Area / Germany
I just figured out, that in Germany new forest regulations should be released and some of the suggestions which might be included (or maybe not) is that tracks should be removed from digital maps and recording and sharing of tracks through forests etc. will become illegal.

I made a post in the German part of the forum with a link to the press release about that.

AWo
The problem is, the internet does not forget. And if the data is stored in another country where German law is not applicable..
@AnD3rew first of all I respect the way you do. I am however even in my company the Devils advocate. I question everything including human caused climate change. Or even CO2 as the most evil substance. I do not donate a single penny for any of this. I am not mean. I donated for those poor people who were victims of flooding in Ahrtal Germany, because some stupid authorities forgot to release water early enough from reservoirs and flood control ponds so these were incapable to hold the masses. I donated to reporters that are on their own raising a voice diffent to mainstream to allow free speech wether I like or share their opinion or not.
To me there are three natural rights, freedom, in particular speech and opinion, life, property.. if freedom is gone life becomes property..
The climate change stuff to me is initiated by persons featuring a lifestyle on contrary of what they demand from us. Georgia Guide Stones.. ? .. Nope
I do not move in a political discussion.. but there are too many questions and unproven statements and only assumptions in this topic. According to global warming alarmists we should have already been dried .. snow became a fairy tale.. indeed the opposite is happening now.. 2-3 years ago we had quite hot n dry summers. But the last years intense rain, colder, better plant growth and just now hefty snowfall.. contradicting any prognosis of recent years.
To me it’s simple shut off the brain wash machine.
No fear!
 

AnD3rew

Inch deep and a mile wide.
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
5:30 AM
Joined
Aug 24, 2022
Messages
2,440
Reaction score
6,050
The problem is, the internet does not forget. And if the data is stored in another country where German law is not applicable..
@AnD3rew first of all I respect the way you do. I am however even in my company the Devils advocate. I question everything including human caused climate change. Or even CO2 as the most evil substance. I do not donate a single penny for any of this. I am not mean. I donated for those poor people who were victims of flooding in Ahrtal Germany, because some stupid authorities forgot to release water early enough from reservoirs and flood control ponds so these were incapable to hold the masses. I donated to reporters that are on their own raising a voice diffent to mainstream to allow free speech wether I like or share their opinion or not.
To me there are three natural rights, freedom, in particular speech and opinion, life, property.. if freedom is gone life becomes property..
The climate change stuff to me is initiated by persons featuring a lifestyle on contrary of what they demand from us. Georgia Guide Stones.. ? .. Nope
I do not move in a political discussion.. but there are too many questions and unproven statements and only assumptions in this topic. According to global warming alarmists we should have already been dried .. snow became a fairy tale.. indeed the opposite is happening now.. 2-3 years ago we had quite hot n dry summers. But the last years intense rain, colder, better plant growth and just now hefty snowfall.. contradicting any prognosis of recent years.
To me it’s simple shut off the brain wash machine.
No fear!
Not going to argue the point on a car forum. All I will say is that I respect science, science isn’t infallible, but the scientific method weeds out the mistakes and the weight of evidence is important.
 

klarie

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
7:30 PM
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
1,064
Reaction score
2,297
Location
Rhine - Main Area / Germany
Not going to argue the point on a car forum. All I will say is that I respect science, science isn’t infallible, but the scientific method weeds out the mistakes and the weight of evidence is important.
Yeah exactly, - as long as science is used properly - by dispute and not by consent.
Science is only science as long as it is used to the be entirely fact based and not misused by politics and big companies with a large budget. One thing I learned like X-files.. Trust no one, always look at methods, samples, sample rate, amount, where was measured, comparability, etc. (I am just looking my daughter over the shoulder) she is in a course at her university - statistics with R language - I am doing some data science and data warehouse analytics - but not in meteorology and alike)
However, I am with you in many topics, mother Nature is a sensitive lady and may not react immediately but hefty if mistreated. I do my part to keep her happy, but perhaps a bit different and learned to have huge respect.
 

AWo

Local time
7:30 PM
Joined
Feb 28, 2023
Messages
1,090
Reaction score
2,067
Location
Germany
Yeah exactly, - as long as science is used properly - by dispute and not by consent.
Science is only science as long as it is used to the be entirely fact based and not misused by politics and big companies with a large budget. One thing I learned like X-files.. Trust no one, always look at methods, samples, sample rate, amount, where was measured, comparability, etc. (I am just looking my daughter over the shoulder) she is in a course at her university - statistics with R language - I am doing some data science and data warehouse analytics - but not in meteorology and alike)
However, I am with you in many topics, mother Nature is a sensitive lady and may not react immediately but hefty if mistreated. I do my part to keep her happy, but perhaps a bit different and learned to have huge respect.
As you can't get all these methods, samples, etc. and you can't do all these measuremenst and science on your own for each and every discipline...you have to trust someone.

And I bet you trust already many, many people...when you eat food, fly with a plane, drive with a train, drive with a car (even if it is the Grenadier), wear clothes, go to the doctor, get a surgery, when you use medicine, live in a house, use an escalator or lift, etc. etc.etc.

Not trust in science or people who do science or other people at all would make your life nearly impossible to live. It is a somewhat "strange" attitude (don't know if that is the right term) to claim "not to trust anyone".

I personally trust a lot of things and a lot of people (which I even don't know!) every single day. But I do not trust all. But the latter is definitely the smaller part.

Trust is a method of reducing complexity.

AWo
 
Last edited:

grenadierboy

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
5:30 AM
Joined
Apr 6, 2022
Messages
1,814
Reaction score
3,308
Location
Armadale Australia
As you can't get all these methods, samples, etc. and you can't do all these measuremenst and science on your own for each and every discipline...you have to trust someone.

And I bet you trust already many, many people...when you eat food, fly with a plane, drive with a train, drive with a car (even if it is the Grenadier), wear clothes, go to the doctor, get a surgery, when you use medicine, live in a house, use an escalator or lift, etc. etc.etc.

Not trust in science or people who do science or other people at all would make your life nearly impossible to live. It is a somewhat "strange" attitude (don't know if that is the right term) to claim "not to trust anyone".

I personally trust a lot of things and a lot of people (which I even don't know!) every single day. But I do not trust all. But the latter is definitely the smaller part.

Trust is a method of reducing complexity.

AWo
I love your last line - just imagine how little time anyone would have to do anything without trust but, of course trust must be earnt.
 

klarie

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
7:30 PM
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
1,064
Reaction score
2,297
Location
Rhine - Main Area / Germany
As you can't get all these methods, samples, etc. and you can't do all these measuremenst and science on your own for each and every discipline...you have to trust someone.

And I bet you trust already many, many people...when you eat food, fly with a plane, drive with a train, drive with a car (even if it is the Grenadier), wear clothes, go to the doctor, get a surgery, when you use medicine, live in a house, use an escalator or lift, etc. etc.etc.

Not trust in science or people who do science or other people at all would make your life nearly impossible to live. It is a somewhat "strange" attitude (don't know if that is the right term) to claim "not to trust anyone".

I personally trust a lot of things and a lot of people (which I even don't know!) every single day. But I do not trust all. But the latter is definitely the smaller part.

Trust is a method of reducing complexity.

AWo
Yeah.. the X-files quote was perhaps too absolute. And as @grenadierboy wrote "trust must be earned" - is very true. In engineering with my dad.. there was a quote "wer misst, misst Mist". For non German speakers "misst" "messen" is to measure something. "Mist" however if similar in sound .. is not thin haze or fog but the German term for stacked dung with straw in a farmers yard with a special odour emitting..
This meaning of this quote is fault and errors to be considered when measuring items.
My experience as a 60 year old becoming a grouch in particular when getting numbers presented and I should read these.. So what where, how often.. .. if that is not exactly proved how the data was acquired and how it is related.. (Was in my past far to often.. that data was to a large scale wrong and worthless) So indeed I trust only a countably finite (low) number of persons. And in particular if statistics and mathematical models are applied depending on so many dimensions.. my doubts raise. There are 2 subjects we still know very little about. That is life sciences and meteorology / climatology.
 

AWo

Local time
7:30 PM
Joined
Feb 28, 2023
Messages
1,090
Reaction score
2,067
Location
Germany
Yeah.. the X-files quote was perhaps too absolute. And as @grenadierboy wrote "trust must be earned" - is very true. In engineering with my dad.. there was a quote "wer misst, misst Mist". For non German speakers "misst" "messen" is to measure something. "Mist" however if similar in sound .. is not thin haze or fog but the German term for stacked dung with straw in a farmers yard with a special odour emitting..
This meaning of this quote is fault and errors to be considered when measuring items.
My experience as a 60 year old becoming a grouch in particular when getting numbers presented and I should read these.. So what where, how often.. .. if that is not exactly proved how the data was acquired and how it is related.. (Was in my past far to often.. that data was to a large scale wrong and worthless) So indeed I trust only a countably finite (low) number of persons. And in particular if statistics and mathematical models are applied depending on so many dimensions.. my doubts raise. There are 2 subjects we still know very little about. That is life sciences and meteorology / climatology.
Three.

No one ever has prooved, that the light realy turns off when you close the door of the fridge.

AWo
 

trobex

Grenadier Owner
Local time
6:30 PM
Joined
Dec 23, 2022
Messages
1,902
Reaction score
2,444
Location
Australia
Not going to argue the point on a car forum. All I will say is that I respect science, science isn’t infallible, but the scientific method weeds out the mistakes and the weight of evidence is important.
Didn't apply to the COVID vaccine and its efficacy on people under 40... quite a few young people now with heart conditions / heart attacks / early deaths / and I saw firsthand evidence of young people obtaining clots/DVTs within a 1 or 2 days of having the vaccines - apparently cannot be linked to the vaccine... yeah right, these people were under 30... Have to forgive a few people for not entirely believing the science. I believe firmly that CO2 caused my fossil fuels is not the root cause of our issues, and that in fact, over population & clear deforestation of the world's last remaining natural habitats is the primary cause for concern/issue/affect. CO2 in a naturally unaffected world of flora would pose little or no concern to the world (trees love it), however, cut it all down and yeah it is a problem! No trees mean a heavily reduced natural CO2 capture. Oceans absorb quite a lot of CO2, but we destroyed nearly 50% of the buffer (trees) and now continual breeding will break the remaining cycle of CO2 storage via the world's flora.

CO2 was hailed as the root cause of all the world's problems, because it can be easily monetised and made the culprit (it is partially but not the no.1 problem). On the contrary, you cannot monetise the cessation of cutting down a forest for human settlement, it is the polar opposite to making money and the left is BLIND AS A BAT to the fact that deforestation, the biggest 1990s issue of the world, is gaining momentum by doubling in 20 years. Good luck with the CO2 problem... is all I can say.
 

klarie

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
7:30 PM
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
1,064
Reaction score
2,297
Location
Rhine - Main Area / Germany
Three.

No one ever has prooved, that the light realy turns off when you close the door of the fridge.

AWo
:ROFLMAO: drill a "peep" hole in it ( disadvantage would destroy the insulation)
or put a recording camera inside.
Both are sufficient to prove. .. but I stop this now.. philosophy was never my topic.
 

255/85

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Local time
10:30 AM
Joined
Mar 4, 2023
Messages
762
Reaction score
859
Location
Western U.S.
Trust is a method of reducing complexity.
Without "Trust" most of the population wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning. Only daredevils and sociopaths can function without it. Daredevils thrive on adrenaline which tends to block out rational thought processes despite heightened perception. Sociopaths think they're smarter than everyone else and believe they can use feigned trustworthiness to their advantage.

As to the fridge light and a peep hole...

The mere fact of observation has been proven to effect outcome in certain repeatable experiments. Or perhaps it's both on and off like Schrödinger's cat.
 

TD5-90

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Founding Guard
Local time
7:30 PM
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
453
Reaction score
923
Location
South Germany
“Woke” seems like a really unhelpful label. 20 years ago people complained about “political correctness gone mad” (mostly reactionary fear of social progress / basic politeness / fairness as far as I can remember). A tendency to fret about ‘wokeness’ seems to be the modern equivalent. I very rarely hear it in the wild, outside of the Mail / Express etc, but if someone described me as woke I think I’d take it as a compliment.
Don't agree.
20 years ago "basic politeness" and "fairness" were at a different level, it's your "social progress" that helped bringing them down to today's level. 20 years ago at least fragments of sth you could have called "society" existed, with social control being something positive.
 

FieldMonster

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Local time
6:30 PM
Joined
Nov 17, 2023
Messages
130
Reaction score
366
Location
United Kingdom
Don't agree.
20 years ago "basic politeness" and "fairness" were at a different level, it's your "social progress" that helped bringing them down to today's level. 20 years ago at least fragments of sth you could have called "society" existed, with social control being something positive.
We will agree to disagree then. Each decade I’ve been alive the world has got better and more accommodating for black people, gay people and trans people. I’m proud to play whatever small part I can in that.
 

TD5-90

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Founding Guard
Local time
7:30 PM
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
453
Reaction score
923
Location
South Germany
We will agree to disagree then. Each decade I’ve been alive the world has got better and more accommodating for black people, gay people and trans people. I’m proud to play whatever small part I can in that.
Forget it! Let's keep motoring instead....
 

trobex

Grenadier Owner
Local time
6:30 PM
Joined
Dec 23, 2022
Messages
1,902
Reaction score
2,444
Location
Australia
We will agree to disagree then. Each decade I’ve been alive the world has got better and more accommodating for black people, gay people and trans people. I’m proud to play whatever small part I can in that.
That's a narrow view of social progress. Sorry mate. Social progress is heading backwards at a million miles an hour, but I can agree the marginalised have it better than 30 years ago. In that conquest however, the world has lost fairness, respect, kindness and even now the "fair go" society is failing. In that conquest, the world has actually become more stupid with polarised views by some that are entirely founded on the news fed to them by Meta. We have an entire generation right now that is unable to think for themselves, is gullible to the point of a stick joke and that's about where I'll leave this. I have little to no faith in the sub 25yr generation now - I have seen how they work, speak and think. Self entitled to stupidity. I'm mad!
 
Local time
1:30 PM
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Messages
78
Reaction score
119
Location
SF Bay Area, California
Man made climate change is happening. Being in denial about it is silly. Maybe it's cognitive dissonance, maybe it's contrarianism, but it's probably normalcy bias. I'm not saying don't buy a Grenadier; we have one life, and if it makes you happy it's a relatively small greenhouse gas contributor in the scheme of things. However, I think any sane person should at least be aware and conscious of their choices.
 

IG_in_AZ

Global Grenadiers #1372
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
11:30 AM
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Messages
793
Reaction score
1,733
Location
Tucson, AZ, USA

holdmybeer

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
10:30 AM
Joined
Mar 4, 2023
Messages
504
Reaction score
1,068
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
This thread is hilarious. It just goes to show that having enough money to buy a Grenadier doesn't mean that you have enough brains.

Meh. Even if everyone in the world had "enough brains", I would still expect arguments and fucked up worldviews. Put a bunch of Very Smart economists, physicists, philosophers, doctors, engineers, etc. together and you'll get intense arguments and crazy views on what the world's biggest problems are and, especially, how to fix them. Morality. Environment. Spirituality. Economics. Freedoms. etc.

Having enough money to buy a Grenadier probably means we have the luxury of spare hours each week for off-topic forum debates. :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom