Steering

[DenisM]

View attachment 7826542
Is this what you are looking for?

Steven... In Aussie jargon "Mate: You are a 'legend'!" (that's high praise indeed! )
Without compromising your position.... are you able to tell us how many pages the "electrical" section runs to, including wiring diagrams? ..(just so we know how much to expect )

 

[Steven Cook]

Superb - yes, greatly appreciated.

Is there a section on adjusting the drag link, anything along the lines of "Adjust drag link to a nominal 924 mm between ball joint centres."

No exact measurements for a 'normal'/'standard' position. However only advise i can recommend is to make sure the ball joint on the pitman arm and on the opposite hub are center/straight when all tightened up. 46mm spanner is needed and look at the threads to determine left hand threads.

 

[DCPU]

Again, thank you very much for responding.

 

[Steven Cook]

Steven... In Aussie jargon "Mate: You are a 'legend'!" (that's high praise indeed! )
Without compromising your position.... are you able to tell us how many pages the "electrical" section runs to, including wiring diagrams? ..(just so we know how much to expect )

Hi Denis. The electrical section is all in categories and sub categories, however 100+ pages I recon. Luckily have not had to use them, yet!

 

[mrg46]

I had a LOT of free play on mine and the first drive from dealer (4 hours on various types of roads) was incredibly hard work as I was constantly correcting. Based on this thread I took my tyre pressure way down to 2.2 bar (will probably notch it back up slightly soon) and it improved play and vagueness but not 100%.
Then last week I had an expert look at wheel & steering alignment. Thrust angle needed adjusting and then the toe, and finally the steering needed centring. Noticeable improvement in overall steering & handling. There is still a small bit of play but it can now track straight with hands off the wheel, and a relaxing drive with one hand on the wheel.
Worth noting that you'll need to check if your wheel alignment agent has 36 & 46 open-ended spanners. I needed to buy both and take them with me - they work on all types of 4x4's & SUV's but have never needed a spanner larger than a 34. You may also need to take the specifications shared above by Steven, as most places won't have these saved on their machine profiles and need to add it before testing.

 

[DCPU]

Then last week I had an expert look at wheel & steering alignment. Thrust angle needed adjusting and then the toe

So what settings were you using?

 

[mrg46]

So what settings were you using?

See the link in my post above - shared by Steven. These match what I was given locally.

 

[AWo]

I wouldn’t call it “play”.

The difference with play is that you will feel a pronounced, sudden resistance as you turn left or right toward the area where the play ends. Then, a clear, sudden steering resistance can be felt. It's an almost digital change.

This is not the case with the Grenadier. It's more like a dead zone where just nothing seems to happen. A bit like a rubber-zone which must exceed a certain level of force to have an effect on the wheels. It feels kind of rubbery.

I've got used to it now. But my Grenadier pulls slightly to the left, the toe alignment needs to be checked. And because that's the case, I have to constantly correct a little, which is tiring and gives an inaccurate feeling.

This permanent correcting gives together with the recirculating ball steering the impression of a hard to control play - which it isn't imo. The problem is rather that in such a scenario (pulling slightly sideways) you permanently have to deal with that 'dead zone', and that feels odd.

If the alignment were correct, I think there would be far fewer corrections required while driving and the feel would be less inaccurate. The 'play' would literally not come into play (pun intended).

I think, with that type of steering an absolutely correct track adjustment is key.

So I asked my agent to check and adjust the track and steering. I'm waiting for an appointment.

more presice wording​

You need some "play" especially offroad. Otherwise driving feels twitchy.

AWo

 

[Roach]

@Lord Ripon USA and others... Maybe this is covered in previous posts on this thread but I'd be interested in the forum's input on the steering choice used by the IG. Is it the 'easy to repair' while on teh road (not that I could do that)? I thought manufacturers were/had switched to fully electric for fuel effeciency, less maintenance and are more reliable.

 

[anand]

@Lord Ripon USA and others... Maybe this is covered in previous posts on this thread but I'd be interested in the forum's input on the steering choice used by the IG. Is it the 'easy to repair' while on teh road (not that I could do that)? I thought manufacturers were/had switched to fully electric for fuel effeciency, less maintenance and are more reliable.

Is there a manufacturer that has a fully electric (no fluid) recirculating ball steering setup on a vehicle?

If you want to dive into specifics, technically, the steering is "electric" (the power steering pump is electric, not belt driven)

 

[YellowLab]

@Lord Ripon USA and others... Maybe this is covered in previous posts on this thread but I'd be interested in the forum's input on the steering choice used by the IG. Is it the 'easy to repair' while on teh road (not that I could do that)? I thought manufacturers were/had switched to fully electric for fuel effeciency, less maintenance and are more reliable.

The steering system on the IG is a recirculating ball system similar to Jeep and was spec'd with the view it was better for off road use that rack and pinion. R&P can give harsh feedback when driving off road. As far as repairs on the road - that all comes down to your comfort level and then ask yourself how often would you be in that situation.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

The steering system on the IG is a recirculating ball system similar to Jeep and was spec'd with the view it was better for off road use that rack and pinion. R&P can give harsh feedback when driving off road. As far as repairs on the road - that all comes down to your comfort level and then ask yourself how often would you be in that situation.

If I remember the torque on the Pitman arm nut on the old Saginaw steering gear boxes, it was like 150 foot pounds on a taper. If you run into a rock, you probably aren’t going to be able to take the arm off the box. But you can certainly use a torch to return it to usable geometry. I don’t ever recall taking off a part outside of the plant without a torch. But we were too poor to have a puller when we first got out of school.
I think reciprocating ball is a good choice for this vehicle.
Part of the vague feeling that you get with RB systems, is the number of services that are allowed to move in between the steering wheel and the wheels. Every time you turn the wheel you are taking up all of the slack in between each of those parts before the command reaches the wheel. So they have never been as precise as rack and pinion.

 

[YellowLab]

If I remember the torque on the Pitman arm nut on the old Saginaw steering gear boxes, it was like 150 foot pounds on a taper. If you run into a rock, you probably aren’t going to be able to take the arm off the box. But you can certainly use a torch to return it to usable geometry. I don’t ever recall taking off a part outside of the plant without a torch. But we were too poor to have a puller when we first got out of school.
I think reciprocating ball is a good choice for this vehicle.
Part of the vague feeling that you get with RB systems, is the number of services that are allowed to move in between the steering wheel and the wheels. Every time you turn the wheel you are taking up all of the slack in between each of those parts before the command reaches the wheel. So they have never been as precise as rack and pinion.

I'm wondering if there are ways to tweak the system a bit -

 

[DaveB]

The steering system on the IG is a recirculating ball system similar to Jeep and was spec'd with the view it was better for off road use that rack and pinion. R&P can give harsh feedback when driving off road. As far as repairs on the road - that all comes down to your comfort level and then ask yourself how often would you be in that situation.

rack & pinion is difficult to use with a live front axle also

 

[Roach]

@Lord Ripon USA Thanks.
@anand so the IG is an electric RB?

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

I'm wondering if there are ways to tweak the system a bit -

Sure there are.
Just replace every spherical ball with a racing one. The metal on metal contact will make your teeth chatter and your hands numb over the course of 500 miles. And it doesn’t last as long
that’s why they put nylon or Teflon bushings inside all those parts. Everything’s a trade off.
Driving my old El Dorado, it was a lot like steering a boat. The deuce and a quarter was almost as bad as the Eldo, but the Eldo had front wheel drive.

 

[YellowLab]

Sure there are.
Just replace every spherical ball with a racing one. The metal on metal contact will make your teeth chatter and your hands numb over the course of 500 miles. And it doesn’t last as long
that’s why they put nylon or Teflon bushings inside all those parts. Everything’s a trade off.
Driving my old El Dorado, it was a lot like steering a boat. The deuce and a quarter was almost as bad as the Eldo, but the Eldo had front wheel drive.

Or even better - I could tie a rope to each side of the front axel and use that - worked when we were all kids...

 

[anand]

@anand so the IG is an electric RB?

The pump is electric, still has power steering fluid, lines, etc.

 

[Roach]

@Lord Ripon USA So cars like the Dakar use R&P, does the PDCC isolate the feedback?

 

[alvan]

@Lord Ripon USA and others... Maybe this is covered in previous posts on this thread but I'd be interested in the forum's input on the steering choice used by the IG. Is it the 'easy to repair' while on teh road (not that I could do that)? I thought manufacturers were/had switched to fully electric for fuel effeciency, less maintenance and are more reliable.

Once and for all... The myth of DIY repairs in the desert, mountains or other isolated conditions has long since vanished... No car of a certain size currently and legally on the market can be repaired in these conditions, except for very few cases such as repairing leaks in pipes and little else. There is probably a limited number of capable people who need the necessary spare parts in these cases. This is the case, perhaps, of great travelers who leave with an adequate supply of spare parts, crossing their fingers that any breakdown will be covered by the spare parts. No off-road vehicle currently in legal production can be compared in this respect to a Series, a Hi-Lux or similar... For years those who participate in large raids have been followed by a theme of mechanics with a complete assortment of spare parts...