Steering stabilizer bar

[INEOS OG]

There have been upwards of a dozen cases of death wobble occurring between the forum and FB groups in the US, repeatably, in vehicles with non-OEM steering stabilizers and the same vehicle with no change other than going back to an OEM steering stabilizer yields no death wobble.

I'm not saying that there aren't other things in play causing it, but the stock steering stabilizer is firm enough to ensure no wobble

Show me one which was not caused by improper mods not related to the steering stabilizer. Stop with the, "I heard on facebook BS". Three things cause 99.9% of "death wobble" in any vehicle and all three share a common cause. Incompetence.

Take the steering stabilizer off your Grenadier and let me know what you experience, not what someone else has to say, what you experience. Until then keep facebook on facebook.

 

[INEOS OG]

Have to agree, most people have no idea what death wobble is. That said, I very much do and have very much gotten it on my Gren when I didn't have a stabilizer on it at all. But, I had owl rims with larger tires and a lift. So some things were different. As well, keep in mind that toe can be a game changer with lighter cases of DW. Meaning death wobble that requires a fair amount of energy to induce.

Mods, a lift and larger tires. I'm sorry this happened to you but did you replace the control arms to compensate for caster after the lift? Who balanced the tires? What torque specs were used on the reassembly?

Lads, the laws if physics are finite and unyeilding, Newton's third law of motion, also known as the law of action and reaction, states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Nature always wins.

 

[Dokatd]

Show me one which was not caused by improper mods not related to the steering stabilizer. Stop with the, "I heard on facebook BS". Three things cause 99.9% of "death wobble" in any vehicle and all three share a common cause. Incompetence.

Take the steering stabilizer off your Grenadier and let me know what you experience, not what someone else has to say, what you experience. Until then keep facebook on facebook.

I ran completely stock and removed the steering stabilizer. Truck drove vastly better than with. I never induced death wobble with the truck basically stock. But that means nothing at the end of the day because I have only been able to induce DW once. It very well could happen in stock form minus the stabilizer if I hit the same section at a similar speed.

Otherwise, I'm curious what you think improper mods are because you are very much insinuating that I am incompetent with your statement.

A lift and larger tires? I'm sorry this happened to you but did you replace the control arms to compensate for the lift?

Replace what control arms? The lower arms are adjustable and allow the axle to remain in range of factory spec with the minor lifts being done currently. To be clear, I was testing some configurations when I experienced death wobble. My truck drives fine as it sits today with no DW.

 

[INEOS OG]

I ran completely stock and removed the steering stabilizer. Truck drove vastly better than with. I never induced death wobble with the truck basically stock. But that means nothing at the end of the day because I have only been able to induce DW once. It very well could happen in stock form minus the stabilizer if I hit the same section at a similar speed.

Otherwise, I'm curious what you think improper mods are because you are very much insinuating that I am incompetent with your statement.


Replace what control arms? The lower arms are adjustable and allow the axle to remain in range of factory spec with the minor lifts being done currently. To be clear, I was testing some configurations when I experienced death wobble. My truck drives fine as it sits today with no DW.

Not enough it seems.

INEOS Grenadier Front Lower Duroflex Adjustable Control Arms, Pair

MetalCloak Ineos Grenadier Lower Front Duroflex™ Control Arms provide adjustable length and added strength that is needed for maximum flex with your Grenadier. Ensure a comfortable ride with the ultimate performance both on, and off, road. Features Include: Patented Duroflex Joints Adjustable...

metalcloak.com

 

[Dokatd]

Mods, a lift and larger tires. I'm sorry this happened to you but did you replace the control arms to compensate for caster after the lift? Who balanced the tires? What torque specs were used on the reassembly?

Lads, the laws if physics are finite and unyeilding, Newton's third law of motion, also known as the law of action and reaction, states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Nature always wins.

You edited this after I posted. To answer the remaining questions you posed, or more clearly so you understand the series of events, after the time I experienced death wobble I immediately reinstalled the factory steering stabilizer and the problem was resolved. HOWEVER, I was only waiting for my fox stabilizer which has been installed and the truck is fine with no changes since the original incident minus adding Kings much later on.

And you are partially correct, a steering stabilizer does not fix death wobble. But it can most certainly mask it. In fact this is exactly what Ford did on their 3/4 ton and up trucks. The added on a dual steering stabilizer kit to stop death wobble. This is 100% fact.

 

[Dokatd]

Not enough it seems.

INEOS Grenadier Front Lower Duroflex Adjustable Control Arms, Pair

MetalCloak Ineos Grenadier Lower Front Duroflex™ Control Arms provide adjustable length and added strength that is needed for maximum flex with your Grenadier. Ensure a comfortable ride with the ultimate performance both on, and off, road. Features Include: Patented Duroflex Joints Adjustable...

metalcloak.com

Those are worthless. You cannot exceed the factory caster without destroying your front drive shaft assuming you have a lift of any magnitude. The factory arms allow you to reach full caster and more in most cases when you lift 1.5-2". Any more caster causes major issues due to debatably poor design by Ineos on the front axle.

 

[INEOS OG]

Those are worthless. You cannot exceed the factory caster without destroying your front drive shaft assuming you have a lift of any magnitude. The factory arms allow you to reach full caster and more in most cases when you lift 1.5-2". Any more caster causes major issues due to debatably poor design by Ineos on the front axle.

I am not now nor will I ever discuss the angle of your drive shaft. I agree, they are useles unless or until you exceed factory specs.

This thread was about steering stabilizers which are absolutely not necessary unless or until you hit something on the trail that translates to movement in the steering wheel.

That is all a steering dampner or stabilizer does. No more, no less.

 

[Dokatd]

I am not now nor will I ever discuss the angle of your drive shaft. I agree, they are useles unless or until you exceed factory specs.

This thread was about steering stabilizers which are absolutely not necessary unless or until you hit something on the trail that translates to movement in the steering wheel.

That is all a steering dampner or stabilizer does. No more, no less.

Not trying to be smart, but what do you think induces death wobble. Have you ever had real death wobble. I mean uncontrollable vehicle death wobble, not a shakey steering wheel.

Let me answer the first question I posed. Death wobble occurs due to an irregularity in the surface you are driving by on. This puts energy into your suspension and chassis. If conditions are just right, or maybe more correctly wrong, then a harmonic starts in the front axle causing the axle to oscillate side to side while the tires jump up and down. Ow this is happening after you hit a bump and the truck is now on otherwise smooth surface. The oscillation then builds on itself until you remove the energy but coming to a stop. Typically death wobble continues until you stop but some minor DW can stop if you slow down considerably.

This condition can happen on brand new components and most certainly happens more on worn out components from tie rod ends to worn king pins etc.

I have been diagnosing trucks with death wobble for clients since the 90's. I can say without question that a steering stabilizer can prevent the condition from happening. And again, Ford and other manufacturers will tell you the same.

 

[INEOS OG]

Not trying to be smart, but what do you think induces death wobble. Have you ever had real death wobble. I mean uncontrollable vehicle death wobble, not a shakey steering wheel.

Let me answer the first question I posed. Death wobble occurs due to an irregularity in the surface you are driving by on. This puts energy into your suspension and chassis. If conditions are just right, or maybe more correctly wrong, then a harmonic starts in the front axle causing the axle to oscillate side to side while the tires jump up and down. Ow this is happening after you hit a bump and the truck is now on otherwise smooth surface. The oscillation then builds on itself until you remove the energy but coming to a stop. Typically death wobble continues until you stop but some minor DW can stop if you slow down considerably.

This condition can happen on brand new components and most certainly happens more on worn out components from tie rod ends to worn king pins etc.

I have been diagnosing trucks with death wobble for clients since the 90's. I can say without question that a steering stabilizer can prevent the condition from happening. And again, Ford and other manufacturers will tell you the same.

Putting a Band-Aid on a sucking chest room does not stop the sucking, it merely slows it down. The Grenadier OEM steering stabilizer sucks, slowing it down solves the problem but does induce "death wobble".

 

[Tazzieman]

Lads, the laws if physics are finite and unyeilding, Newton's third law of motion, also known as the law of action and reaction, states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Nature always wins.

Stop your rational thinking right now!

 

[Survivor]

I think now my questions are answered. Thank you all and sorry for the confusion my writing caused. To describe something is much easier in german for me

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I think now my questions are answered. Thank you all and sorry for the confusion my writing caused. To describe something is much easier in german for me

And that, my friends, is probably the nicest “you can shut up now, you useless windbags” in the history of the internet.

@Survivor - we’re in family therapy, but it’s rough

 

[Dokatd]

Putting a Band-Aid on a sucking chest room does not stop the sucking, it merely slows it down. The Grenadier OEM steering stabilizer sucks, slowing it down solves the problem but does induce "death wobble".

I'm not clear on what you are suggesting at the end there. Are you pro OEM stabilizer or do you prefer an aftermarket.

And yes it's a band aid but band aids tend to work. Ever heard the phrase "Nothings more permanent than a temporary fix".

The front axle geometry on the Gren is horribly engineered and has notes of Jeep design in it. Maybe that's why it occasionally has DW issues. I don't know, but it's prone to it regardless.

As a note, I agree that a stabilizer should not be "required" and I have several trucks bigger and smaller that don't have stabilizers and they don't have any hint of death wobble. So let's not argue that point.

 

[anand]

Show me one which was not caused by improper mods not related to the steering stabilizer. Stop with the, "I heard on facebook BS". Three things cause 99.9% of "death wobble" in any vehicle and all three share a common cause. Incompetence.

Has nothing to do with other mods... Call up RDS and ask why they aren't installing aftermarket dampers prior to sale any more like they were once suggesting to their clients

As with everything else in the world, whether or not you choose to believe things is an internal decision we all make

 

[Bluesurf]

I've been so pleased with my Fox Stabilizer from Agile and its only $229.00. My steering has been returning to about 80% which is awesome. Factory stabilizer needs your input or disaster may follow.

INEOS Grenadier Fox Steering Stabilizer » Agile Offroad

INEOS Grenadier Fox Steering Stabilizer by Agile Offroad. Enjoy improved vehicle drivability and a smoother ride provided by our Fox Steering Stabilizer.

agileoffroad.com

 

[FlyersFan76]

I've been so pleased with my Fox Stabilizer from Agile and its only $229.00. My steering has been returning to about 80% which is awesome. Factory stabilizer needs your input or disaster may follow.

INEOS Grenadier Fox Steering Stabilizer » Agile Offroad

INEOS Grenadier Fox Steering Stabilizer by Agile Offroad. Enjoy improved vehicle drivability and a smoother ride provided by our Fox Steering Stabilizer.

agileoffroad.com

At what mileage did you swap factory for the Fox?

 

[Bluesurf]

I just ordered the Fox engineered for Ineos Grenadier Steering Stabilizer. There is No aftermarket hardware at all. (All other "Fox" Stabilizers are modified by local shops.) Not built at the Fox facility.
I like the one I got from Agile, however this is designed to equalize the pressure and make proper easy steering.
Fox 983-02-243 - FACTORY RACE SERIES 2.0 ATS STABILIZER FOX-983-02-243 Total price: $401.99 Thats a $100.00 discount.

 

[Marky R]

Has anyone seen the YouTube video from Agile Off-road on their custom Fox steering stabilizer bar for the Grenadier? Have you tried it out? If so, what do you think? Also related - if you had it installed, do you know if it voids the warranty?

I fitted my new Fox AT2 yesterday. Set on 14 clicks as recommended.
Initially finding is steering is lighter . Having adjusted my lock stops it goes lock to lock without any effort.
Centre return feels the same but i need to do some more miles and fine tune it to my personal taste .