Sold after 11 months of ownership. My final post and final thoughts.

[HereinDaRockies]

yep there is at least public accessible iihs rivian crash tests, for apple to Apple comparison of crash worthiness.

I am hoping grenadier is also very robust. But I did decide to buy based on blind faith in this regard. Makes no sense I know.

Seeing how they’ve taken a shortcut on the hvac system.. who knows how robust the crash design was

 

[Jackattack13]

yep there is at least public accessible iihs rivian crash tests, for apple to Apple comparison of crash worthiness.

I am hoping grenadier is also very robust. But I did decide to buy based on blind faith in this regard. Makes no sense I know.

Seeing how they’ve taken a shortcut on the hvac system.. who knows how robust the crash design was

I personally think that the mechanical design is solid! They just skimped on the software and electrical design from what it seems like. Either they ran out of budget, underestimating the cost of engineering efforts, or they subbed out the work to a firm that dropped the ball due to time or budget constraints.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

I personally think that the mechanical design is solid! They just skimped on the software and electrical design from what it seems like. Either they ran out of budget, underestimating the cost of engineering efforts, or they subbed out the work to a firm that dropped the ball due to time or budget constraints.

Hope so. Hope they are as pissed as we are at the mismatch in refinement across the mechanical and digital divide, and are motivated to normalize the electronics to a better state

 

[Jackattack13]

Hope so. Hope they are as pissed as we are at the mismatch in refinement across the mechanical and digital divide, and are motivated to normalize the electronics to a better state

Same. There is a clear distinction between the mechanical design and quality to the electrics. Even small stuff, like the low resolution camera and backup images. My parents Chevy Equinox has a better resolution camera and 360 cam and cost half the amount. Add in the barely functional hands-free mic, poorly responsive buttons, etc. Yet the rest of the truck is built like a damn tank!

 

[canikony]

He started his Rivian would had folded like a piece of toast and was glad he was in his Grenadier.

The truth is likely that the Rivian definitely would have been totalled, but the occupants would have been very safe. It's not always a good thing to have the car remain undamaged, you want the car to absorb the crash energy. That's why most modern cars get totalled out so easily.

 

[mcdoogs]

The truth is likely that the Rivian definitely would have been totalled, but the occupants would have been very safe. It's not always a good thing to have the car remain undamaged, you want the car to absorb the crash energy. That's why most modern cars get totalled out so easily.

This exactly. Energy has to be absorbed in a collision and its always better for vehicles to absorb as much as possible (rather than the meatbags inside the vehicles).

I’m an enthusiast and I am happy the Grenadier exists, but its not even close to perfect and its definitely not for most. Hell it’s really meant for hardly anyone. Given it’s rather poor range, its not even really particularly suited for its primary marketed audience interested in remote exploration

Best I can tell its meant for auto & offroad enthusiasts with relatively high income/net worth, available free time, and interest in wrenching. That lines up for me, but I know how small this market is and cannot shit on anyone who rationally decides the grenadier is not for them. Even if it took them absolute ages to figure it out

 

[Reducs]

This video is 10 years old now, but it shows that the "good old days" will kill you and leave you a bloody bag of meat. Controlled deformation is a good thing.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck

 

[TerryS]

As I said I made mistakes, learned some lessons, was sold a bit of a pup, but shared my failings to inform and guide others. I am not looking for sympathy, and unlikely to get it from a fan crowd anyway.

 

[mcdoogs]

Same. There is a clear distinction between the mechanical design and quality to the electrics. Even small stuff, like the low resolution camera and backup images. My parents Chevy Equinox has a better resolution camera and 360 cam and cost half the amount. Add in the barely functional hands-free mic, poorly responsive buttons, etc. Yet the rest of the truck is built like a damn tank!

Agreed completely.

Electronic features are absolutely fine as long as their failure doesn’t cripple the car. Simple, basic things omitted from the Grenadier like blind spot monitoring, auto high beam, rain sensing wipers, auto dim rear view mirror (or better yet a rearview camera option like wolfbox or LR’s clearview), auto up AND down windows, keyless entry, push button start, remote start, a reverse camera not sourced from spare parts bins a decade old…

Some of these are proven conveniences that could have been incorporated in the Grenadier (maybe as option packs) that wouldnt compromise its purpose as long as their failure didnt cripple the car and there existed analog workarounds. Instead we get ADAS lol

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Agreed completely.

Electronic features are absolutely fine as long as their failure don’t cripple the car. Simple, basic things omitted from the Grenadier like blind spot monitoring, rain sensing wipers, auto dim rear view mirror (or better yet a rearview camera option like wolfbox or LR’s clearview), auto up AND down windows, keyless entry, push button start, remote start, a reverse camera not sourced from spare parts bins a decade old…

Some of these are proven conveniences that could have been incorporated in the Grenadier (maybe as option packs) that wouldnt compromise its purpose as long as their failure didnt cripple the car and there existed analog workarounds. Instead we get ADAS lol

No - instead we got stupid toot horn . Literally a piece of crap no one has ever asked for or ever aspired to have. How many drinks in, was Kim at the Grenadier bar, to come up with that idea?

 

[abakker]

I personally think that the mechanical design is solid! They just skimped on the software and electrical design from what it seems like. Either they ran out of budget, underestimating the cost of engineering efforts, or they subbed out the work to a firm that dropped the ball due to time or budget constraints.

I think the honest truth is that they subbed the electronics and software, and the reasons they are so tight lipped about fixes to either is that there is likely legal action between them and their sub over liability to fix the issues. I have no proof, but I know a bit about the world of outsourcing and have seen a similar pattern in other businesses.

 

[DaveB]

Today I took a haircut and sold my fully loaded Grenadier back to my dealer in Texas. 11 months of ownership and I feel a great sense of relief. I also learned a valuable lesson about the point of owning such a vehicle, or rather the pointlessness of owning it, unless you have 100K pocket change for buying toys.

I was an early adopter, well in the US anyway, and was on the wait list for 2 years prior and went to all the demo days. I'd owned many Series and Defender Landies over the years and suffered the usual fun and games and so had held out high hopes of the ultimate Defender from Ineos, and to some degree it did deliver that but...

I'll start with the Cons

• The fuel economy is woeful in this day and age, and the reason I sold my Toyota Tundra was 13mpg. I only got 13mpg from the Ineos on a good day. At speed I averaged 10mpg. Under 70mph I could squeeze 15mpg if I was very lucky, but 10-13 was my average. Speed means 80-85 mph. Texas allows that on some roads and our highways average 75mph limits. Texas drivers don't pootle about!
• The fuel capacity is woeful! The times I had to clench my sphincter as I suddenly got the red REFUEL NOW message as range went from 40 miles to zero without warning while I was in the middle of nowhere. I had to carry Rotopax on the roof to give me peace of mind. Many parts of the US lack adequate fuel stops. Getting range anxiety in a ICE car is ridiculous.
• Low fuel message at 75 mile range is stupid, but given the fuel consumption maybe not. Anyway...
• The volume levels of the bongs were anxiety inducing at times.
• The fact the car turns on when you open the doors and if the fuel is low Big Ben bongs!
• Some people mention parasitic battery drain. I never had that.
• Not being able to use the winch unless in neutral. i.e. Pulling someone out of a mess while you are stationary. I get it protects the transmission but let's call this an undocumented feature.
• Same winch issue means no power to rear NATO style socket. Car needs to be in neutral and handbrake on to get power to that socket to run equipment like compressors.
• The windshield is a gravel magnet and pits like bad teeth. In the US every highway is a mass of road debris and every time a truck pulls out you get a grit shower, and given the unique profile of the Grenadier the windshield gets a bettering. Yes, the Defender would be as bad but that does not detract from needing a new windshield after 10K miles. Some people have reported more than one in that time. $2200 so you better have glass cover on your insurance.
• Sewell (dealer) reported windshields in short supply and on allocation with at least a 3 week delay. Great if you shattered one! Expensive tow to a dealer and abandon the car until one can be sourced?
• My dealer would not accept insurance to pay for a windshield as "they are not a body shop". So expect to pay and claim.
• The dealer is also still running as a startup so some services hard to obtain. I guess this is will be a nationwide problem for some time.
• Support from Ineos for issues is horrendous. They do not care.
• The software issues are endless and some have no fixes, and in my opinion Ineos are lying about ever fixing some of them like the nanny bongs. I worked in automotive software development. It isn't that hard!
• The overspeed nanny bongs. FFS the whole FAV button circus is just stupid.
• The turn off the auto start stop feature every time you start the car is just stupid.
• Jacket Fiasco - still have not got mine but have filled in the form, 11 months after I took delivery. Another example of Ineos failing to give a shit. Maybe I will get as a souvenir now. They have also ended that offer and realized they had to fulfill the contract they made for us early adopters. I am sure it has driven them mad.
• The full length roof rack was a mistake, especially as I had the sunroofs. I got it as the shorter version was not available when I purchased the car. Of course this made the sunroofs pointless, which I only spec'd as I knew they could not be fitted later.
• The ability to clean the car easily and effectively with the roof rack fitted. Not an Ineos problem, but an observation. A PITA especially cleaning the sunroof glass.
• The sunroofs also are a PITA if you live somewhere where the sun if strong! The glare and heat through them is unwelcome. At least the full length rack blocked a lot of it but we still found ourselves sticking card into the seal channels to block heat and light.
• On the sunroofs, yes mine both leaked and this necessitated a fix by applying gluing the seals.
• I had the leaking door seals, fully documented in one of my threads, and it took 3 attempts, new seals, and a lot of glue to fix them.
• Too tall to go into a standard US garage, and that's saying something. I could just scrape it in with everything off the roof rack, but what a PITA that would be. Living in Texas hail and bad storms are a reality, and having to panic to get the hail protector on and the hassle of doing that was endlessly annoying, not withstanding having to put it away after the risk had passed. If you live in hail prone areas you need to be under cover.
• Leaving the car out in the elements all the time would hasten its deterioration. Again, Texas high heat and bad weather storms. And when I was away from home there was no one to fit the hail protector if needed.
• The sun visors are woeful. Trying to block out low sun was a PITA. We resorted to sticking paper or card into the window channels to avoid losing our eyesight.
• The lack of vanity mirrors seems a small thing but it is a 100 grand car!
• The windows only have auto down and not auto up. 100 grand car! Maybe a Euro nanny limitation.
• Seat adjustment of the seat backs. The control is a PITA. Designed by an octopus apparently.
• Heated seats are crap. Red hot followed by barely noticeable.
• The check engine light coming on if you accidentally over fuel or top off the tank. Carry an ODBII tool to rest that yourself. Stupid! Just stupid!
• The lack of an expansive dealer network for an unreliable car in the digital and software aspects especially. If you were in the remote parts of the USA and the car has a software schism like I did then you are royally screwed and facing a multi $1000 dollar tow, assuming you can find a flatbed breaker to come get you. Get a Garmin with inReach®!

Yes, some of these things I knew and should have just accepted but when I started to think about the stress and hassles of ownership I started to muse had I spent 100K on a Lexus or less on a Land Cruiser, would I be having any of these conversations, and I know the answer.

First service at 10K miles was $660 as both diffs need oil changes as well as the engine oil and filters, so BMW prices for servicing.

The Pros and things I liked.

• Huge cool factor. The Mushroom and Red frame/chassis looked amazing.
• Fond memories of my Defenders.
• The roof rack and all its adornments looked super cool.
• The ability to run power inside the vehicle when it was off using the overhead switches.
• It was fast for a car of this type. The BMW engine is excellent. Some turbo lag but still impressed the socks of me.
• The 8 speed ZF transmission was excellent as was the cruise control.
• Seats were very comfortable for me.
• Phenomenal off-road ability but nothing that a lower cost well equipped 4x4 could not match.
• Phenomenal overload vehicle as long as your bush mechanic has a computing degree and carries a digital diagnostics toolkit. And you have a fuel tanker following you around.

For the first time I got the "Chelsea Tractor" metaphor used in the UK. Chelsea being a high class London borough where the only things Range Rovers do is the school run and going to the shops. My Grenadier was amazing off-road, of that there is no argument, even if the diff locks where a paint in the ass to switch in and out. But, was I ever going to serous off road a 100 grand plus truck? Not really, so I got an amazing toy that I was constrained in using unless I was willing to scuff it all up and devalue it rapidly by whacking it on rocks and so forth. Built for that for sure, but not really going to be sensible to rally raid it. My old Series and Defenders got a ton of abuse, but they didn't cost 100 grand. In the end I realized the car didn't make sense for me. Sort of like buying a 80 grand pickup truck and not wanting to damage it by hauling sand and doing pickup type things. With the never-ending issues and the lack of transparency from the dealer and Ineos it was an easy decision and a cathartic one to rid myself of it.

List of all the faults I had prior to the sale and the dealer comments (from an older post I made)

• Some of the settings such as speed clicking toggle stay set after keys out and sometimes they don’t. Software issue. No official update yet
• TPMS reads erroneously. Front left is the worse. Alerts low pressure when the same as other tires. Reset, can show you how to reset yourself if it acts up, no software update for this
• Door knobs on right side stick intermittently. Passenger rear is worse but both do it. Performed an adjust and lubricated
• Multi-select knob works when it feels like it. Never experienced issue, but head unit Module and system reset and coded
• Fav button often stops at first screen. Has to be pressed again to return to home and then again to go back to fav option. Never experienced, always good to let the system come up fully before trying to go to FAV I say a good minute after startup
• CarPlay crashes all the time, often when the ambient temp is high. This also happens when hitting fav button while CarPlay is starting up. Reset head unit, paired our phone and it never dropped. You will need to wipe your phones and re-pair
• Heated seats get red hot when turned on and then go Luke warm at best regardless of settings. Turning off and on again resets them but same issue repeats. Reset head unit and coded, on my last test drive on low setting stayed low
• When slowing down there are a lot of transmission clunks as if it is changing down late. This occurs often when slowing down from highway speeds to a stop light. Nothing that did not feel like every other Grenadier, all driveline systems OK
• When we hit bumps the rear door alarm sounds. Adjusted cargo striker
• Auto headlight setting is poor. Headlights stay on even in bright light. Seems like sensor is poorly calibrated. No software update for this, I have noticed on other trucks the same issue
• Altitude is reading about 30-50 feet lower then true. Needs calibrating. No software update for this it is a GPS antenna and system working as best as it can

I am sure I missed things, and I am sure your mileage will vary, and many have other observations I did not suffer from, and some of you will think I am just a whiner. But I paid 100 grand for a car that was full of issues, some minor, some annoying, and some infuriating. 100 grand is a huge purchase for many people, and I expected more. As a lifelong Toyota driver I am spoiled. I worked for Toyota for 16 years and am a quality focused person as a devotee of TPS. Maybe it's just me but I am glad to have had the haircut and learned something. Buyers remorse? Somewhat, but more an expensive lesson learned.

If you are interested the 98K purchased plus dealer made up fees and state taxes was 108K. I got 71K back after 11 months. I could have tried to sell privately but how long would that have taken, and I did consider Lemon Law but that is hard to prove, can take months, and where would I be then, so I bit the bullet and swallowed the loss and walked away. I am lucky to have put the car though my company so I got the write offs in 2024 and will do some juggling in 2025 to adjust for losses, so I will come out of it a little less lossy, maybe.

Good luck y'all.

N

Sounds like you have made the right decision for you.
Sometimes it is best to cut your losses and walk away.

It reminds me a lot of a woman I lived with for 9 months back when I was 20.
She was very attractive, well educated, had a great job and owned a fantastic apartment overlooking Sydney harbour.
Problem was that I was 20 and she was 39.
She did so many things that annoyed the crap out of me and I certainly did things that she wasn't happy with.
Several of the things I did were her friends and our neighbours.

20% of the time together was fantastic but the rest of the time it seemed we just weren't meant to be together.

Doesn't mean she wasn't great.
We just weren't really compatable or meant to be together.

 

[Dokatd]

Several of the things I did were her friends and our neighbours.

You have no idea how much I hope this wasn't a typo.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Several of the things I did were her friends and our neighbours.

@DaveB you won the internet today with that comment.

 

[DaveB]

You have no idea how much I hope this wasn't a typo.

I had very bad manners and I was young

 

[Walter]

Several of the things I did were her friends and our neighbours.

Cars are boring...could you please provide more detailed information about those several of the things you did? I'm super friendly and I really love my neighbours too.

 

[DaveB]

Cars are boring...could you please provide more detailed information about those several of the things you did? I'm super friendly and I really love my neighbours too.

I just realised she would be 80 this year

 

[Zimm]

No - instead we got stupid toot horn . Literally a piece of crap no one has ever asked for or ever aspired to have. How many drinks in, was Kim at the Grenadier bar, to come up with that idea?

I use my toot horn all the time. It gets the traffic light texters moving politely. I didn’t know I needed it.

 

[DaveB]

I use my toot horn all the time. It gets the traffic light texters moving politely. I didn’t know I needed it.

What you do with your little toot horn is something you should keep to yourself.
Certainly don't share it with others at the lights.

 

[Zimm]

To the op, I get it.

It’s got front and rear lockers, a rear door, and a red frame. I wanted new, and Nothing new excites me or I’d do the same.

I do read the threads for the joy of the fan’boi commentary though. It’s here with the usual suspects, but I thought it’d be worse. Maybe it’s a sign of slightly more general consumer hesitancy or remorse than last fall.