Americas Software Update for ADAS etc. coming in 60 days for NA.

[FlyersFan76]

What is dangerously bad? The fact that hundreds of millions of drivers on every single continent over 100 years have been able to navigate to a fuel station before they run out of fuel long before “distance remaining” indicators were installed?
Student drivers are perfectly capable of reading a fuel gauge. But maybe yours aren’t. I guess a “your mileage may vary” disclaimer is very appropriate here.

I was referring to the Toyota Lane Ass

 

[DFW Guy]

I'm willing to bet the HVAC issues are software related. It's been 20* here in Dallas and I've noticed that if I have the dial cranked all the way to max temps, air direction blowing forward, I get the weird whistling/whining issue from the passenger side blower motor BUT only when the vehicle is cold. My fix is just switching the air to "circulate" and you'll hear a noise that sounds like something in the dash is opening/closing and then I get crazy hot air. Had to adjust the dial to cold air after about 10 min because the car interior was uncomfortably warm.

I also have the magnetic owl seals for the safari windows which I'm sure help keep some of the heat in the vehicle.

We get it, your trucks are perfect. Why do you continually have to argue with people who are telling you they are having problems? Mine is either Hot!! Or Cold. The rear vents are hot when in cool, left to right isn’t even. Why is it that because dual Brent thinks his are perfect you keep demanding people explain themselves to you bud. Why can’t you accept these trucks have issues.

 

[mcdoogs]

Of the multiple car forums I belong to I am really surprised at how negative and quick to throw INEOS under the bus owners are here.

I don't think there are many if any fully unjustified criticisms of Ineos on this forum actually. If anything, given the price point of the car and thus the market segment it actually exists in people here have been extremely forgiving. Not to mention the discrepancy between the marketing and the reality of the car.

So anyways, I fully disagree with the pearl clutching.

 

[bigleonski]

Here you go - the Aussies are onto it.

ANCAP will soon dock points for ‘annoying’ car safety systems

ANCAP is tightening its testing criteria again in 2026, with a key focus on useability of advanced safety systems.

www.drive.com.au

 

[Jiman01]

Of the multiple car forums I belong to I am really surprised at how negative and quick to throw INEOS under the bus owners are here. The choices INEOS made when it comes to the major components is really impressive. The customer service is actually better than most automotive startups, which is not great but at least with Red Noland it's way better than our local Mercedes and Alfa Romeo dealers.

If you think GM, Ford etc are better then go for it. Depending on what GM decides to do with their engine problem, you might even have a chance for a Class Action lawsuit and wait years before you get any compensation or fix.

Nearly 900,000 V8-Powered GM Vehicles Are Under Investigation

The investigation covers vehicles produced between 2019 and 2024.

carbuzz.com

Me? I rather take my chances with a startup that is about moving forward and not just cutting losses...

I agree with you in that they have done a pretty good job with my truck and in the limited CS interactions I’ve had with INEOS, thus far.

I disagree that our members are any different from the motorcycle, truck, 4x4, firearms, watch, and knife forums I’m on. I’m actually surprised it’s not worse. But regardless of what forum i’m on there are always going to be members who have a bad experience and they’re gonna be loud and proud about it because they’re living it and not happy. That leads to members piling on in support and another group who will defend the product. Then the name calling begins, one side calling the other fan bois, and the other BMW (Bitching, Moaning, Whinning) snowflakes.

At first it’s entertaining, like watching Jerry Springer but eventually it gets old and the valuable members leave because it’s no longer what it was when the forum started.

The one big difference here that i’ve noticed is, that for the most part, folks here are exceptionally polite to each other. But it’s also sad to see some of those valuable members who have left because they got sick of some of the drama here, even if the drama is less than other forums.

 

[Samson]

T

As for the ADAS overspeed click sand the general nanny state that new cars are currently suffering, I have discovered that the ADAS is a very minor inconvenience compared to the new Toyota LTA (Lane Tracking Assist) that came on my '24 Tacoma TRD Pro. Toyota's LTA is set somewhere between "Tesla self-driving" and "Help! I'm being car-jacked!" It literally - I'm not exaggeraging - rips the steering wheel from your hands to "forcefully correct" your place on the road. It is the most maddening feature I've ever encountered on an automobile. And, just like the Ineos ADA, it is not permanently defeatable. It resets with every stop. To make matters worse, it's also not reliably turned off. There seems to be some extra setting that I am just not figuring out. I'm on the verge of getting rid of the Tacoma because of it.

That's crazy! The 2022 Bronco we had had something like that, except it didn't actually steer or anything like that - it vibrated the steering wheel and displayed a "code red"-type of graphic on the dash , letting you know you were out of your lane. But to the best of my knowledge, it didn't actually do any steering itself. The Adaptive Cruise Control was pretty cool also , on a 1100 mile drive that I didn't want to be taking but had to be taking, it was the first time I used CC in that vehicle and the first time I'd ever encountered "Adaptive" cruise control ... and I guess there are 3 settings, sensitivity levels of how close you can get to the car in front of you? But it was AMAZING to me, there was times I had to physically catch myself from relaxing as if it was driving itself, because it *really did* feel like it was driving itself (It was not, and I'm not claiming it was, just saying it was very technologically-capable in slowing down, speeding back up, slowing down gently, or really hitting the brakes because some jackanape swerved etc.) But I couldn't deal with it overriding my steering.

Around the time a few years back that we had got that Bronc, Ford's CEO or something had a headline that "People will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to sleep in their cars..." - and I thought he was on about something like, "Are they gonna make a motorhome? Some sort of camper-SUV?" - but what he meant was, once self-driving cars are "figured out" , people will spend $$$ on them in order to sleep during their commutes. And I had never thought of that ... I spent a few years driving an hour each way for work, multiple different jobs, sometimes more with traffic. It never occurred to me, "Man , getting in the car, Setting A Course like the Starship Enterprise, and Engaging, and then just going back to sleep... that would have been something son!" But I'd probably never trust it. Can't even use the backup cameras. Mark 1 Mod 0 Eyeballs for me. Two people I trust in life, one of them is Me, the other one ain't the car.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Of the multiple car forums I belong to I am really surprised at how negative and quick to throw INEOS under the bus owners are here. The choices INEOS made when it comes to the major components is really impressive. The customer service is actually better than most automotive startups, which is not great but at least with Red Noland it's way better than our local Mercedes and Alfa Romeo dealers.

If you think GM, Ford etc are better then go for it. Depending on what GM decides to do with their engine problem, you might even have a chance for a Class Action lawsuit and wait years before you get any compensation or fix.

Nearly 900,000 V8-Powered GM Vehicles Are Under Investigation

The investigation covers vehicles produced between 2019 and 2024.

carbuzz.com

Me? I rather take my chances with a startup that is about moving forward and not just cutting losses...

my angst is 95% rooted in poor customer relationship management.

- lack of communication from Ineos to address customer issues. This sentiment is indirectly cemented when dealers also can not comprehend various issues. E.g. HVAC face vents blowing lukewarm air “its working as designed”
- in a vacuum of response, one can simple conclude Ineos dgaf, or is simply incompetent at resolving them. (Ineos can engineer a tsb for regluing door seal, but anything more complex, they can’t do) The negative sentiment snowballs.. it becomes a pastime to ridicule Ineos’ ineptitude
- while all of this non communicative sht is happening, Ineos is active on the marketing front. CEO talking about useless sht like her car preferences or the ethos of the company that sir Jim gave birth to. lol seriously no one gravitated to your products due to these no-names. You “baited” us with the product.. there appears to be a “switch”. Hopefully not. Stop the baiting efforts now.
- the marketing continues with superficial things like most cringe trim engineering - different color theme, different leather.. the desperation is sad
- meanwhile crickets from Ineos on issues.. customers are going mad with diy ideas like gluing speed signs in front of the camera and fighting the hvac that’s “working as designed”, so their kids don’t freeze
- then Lynn Calder casually mentions in a podcast interview, they will fix the Adas issue. Seriously!? The customer base who placed blind faith in your startup doesn’t deserve a response, but you will give one to the interviewer? There doesn’t seem to be any intentionality in their customer loyalty strategy.
- most people here are reasonable and can give Ineos some slack, it’s just that they have demonstrated zero good will, at this point. I would be happy to be proven wrong in the near future, if they demonstrate meaningful good will towards their customers
If they actively communicate with their small fleet of less than 20k owners, the situation would be entirely different

 

[DFW Guy]

"the marketing continues with superficial things like most cringe trim engineering - different color theme, different leather.. the desperation is sad"

Literally 60-70% of all the Ineos cars sold at my dealership go in for custom fabric interiors/color swaps immediately after purchase. They do this through the dealership. You're thinking about this all wrong. The Grenadier isn't an expensive Wrangler. It's a cheap Defender/G-Wagon. You can literally put $20K into upgrades on a fully loaded Grenadier and still walk away spending less than a base model Defender. Let alone a G Wagon that you can't legally drive right now until they replace the entire rear differential housing.

"lack of communication from Ineos to address customer issues. This sentiment is indirectly cemented when dealers also can not comprehend various issues. E.g. HVAC face vents blowing lukewarm air “its working as designed”

I'll take the heater not melting my face over the Wrangler rusting from the inside out, underpowered Toyota/Lexus alternative with engines exploding with 800 miles on the odometer, KNOWN issues with the intercooler on the Range Rover, and a G Wagon that cant drive on the streets without the rear differential cracking open.

"- lack of communication from Ineos to address customer issues. This sentiment is indirectly cemented when dealers also can not comprehend various issues. E.g. HVAC face vents blowing lukewarm air “its working as designed”"

I had the leaking Safari Windows issue. Took Ineos 5 hours to resolve it. They also bled my power steering fluid, checked the differential fluids, and detailed the car for free. They also gave me a loaner vehicle to use for the 1 day they had my vehicle. When my AMG GT steering column cracked with 2K miles on the odometer, Mercedes put me on a waitlist for a C-Class loaner while they took 3 months to source the part. Ended up having to lemon the vehicle because zero part availability. I also have a 2024 i7 and I cannot tell you how many recalls there's been and they give me a Mini Cooper loaner.

Even Rolls-Royce service/quality has fallen off. I took my Ghost in for an oil change and they made me UBER home. This is on a $400,000 vehicle.

I'm not saying Ineos is perfect but you clearly are living in an age pre-Covid where dealerships realized they can charge whatever, provide terrible service, and then blame the "chip shortage" for all their shortcomings. I can literally text my service advisor at Ineos on his cell phone when I have a question. BMW makes me use their customer portal for everything. You're basically mad you can't call the CEO of Ineos directly while dealers are trying their best to navigate maintaining a vehicle IN THEIR FIRST YEAR OF PRODUCTION.

my angst is 95% rooted in poor customer relationship management.

- lack of communication from Ineos to address customer issues. This sentiment is indirectly cemented when dealers also can not comprehend various issues. E.g. HVAC face vents blowing lukewarm air “its working as designed”
- in a vacuum of response, one can simple conclude Ineos dgaf, or is simply incompetent at resolving them. (Ineos can engineer a tsb for regluing door seal, but anything more complex, they can’t do) The negative sentiment snowballs.. it becomes a pastime to ridicule Ineos’ ineptitude
- while all of this non communicative sht is happening, Ineos is active on the marketing front. CEO talking about useless sht like her car preferences or the ethos of the company that sir Jim gave birth to. lol seriously no one gravitated to your products due to these no-names. You “baited” us with the product.. there appears to be a “switch”. Hopefully not. Stop the baiting efforts now.
- the marketing continues with superficial things like most cringe trim engineering - different color theme, different leather.. the desperation is sad
- meanwhile crickets from Ineos on issues.. customers are going mad with diy ideas like gluing speed signs in front of the camera and fighting the hvac that’s “working as designed”, so their kids don’t freeze
- then Lynn Calder casually mentions in a podcast interview, they will fix the Adas issue. Seriously!? The customer base who placed blind faith in your startup doesn’t deserve a response, but you will give one to the interviewer? There doesn’t seem to be any intentionality in their customer loyalty strategy.
- - lack of communication from Ineos to address customer issues. This sentiment is indirectly cemented when dealers also can not comprehend various issues. E.g. HVAC face vents blowing lukewarm air “its working as designed”
If they actively communicate with their small fleet of less than 20k owners, the situation would be entirely different

 

[mcdoogs]

It's a cheap Defender. You can literally put $20K into upgrades on a fully loaded Grenadier and still walk away spending less than a base model Defender.

It's not though? For 2025 the Defender 110 starts at $60,800 and the Grenadier starts at $75,100. Thats a $14,300 difference. The Defender 90 starts at $56,900 so you are even more wrong when adding in the shorter wheelbase model.

You are literally making things up. It's even worse because the lowest priced trim Defender S is by far the most 'offroad' trim (leaving aside the Octa) as well as having equivalent hp/torque numbers and as such is the best direct Defender comparison to the Grenadier.

 

[DFW Guy]

They 100% were marked up when they launched to that price point, which was the last time I actually went to look at them when they were charging $80K starting for the model with the steel wheels. Just looked up what the X-dynamics are going for at the local dealership and the price point is around $92K. But hey, you can pick up a ton of them for $60K with only 10,000 miles on the odometer. I'm sure that speaks nothing of the quality of the vehicle.

Apparently since I'm just a huge liar and Ineos fanboy, here are the people complaining about the markup on launch: https://landroverforums.com/forum/2020-defender-60/defender-$100k-markup-110297/

It's not though? For 2025 the Defender 110 starts at $60,800 and the Grenadier starts at $75,100. Thats a $14,300 difference.

You are literally making things up. It's even worse because the lowest priced trim Defender 100 S is by far the most 'offroad' trim (leaving aside the Octa) and as such is the best direct Defender comparison to the Grenadier.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

"the marketing continues with superficial things like most cringe trim engineering - different color theme, different leather.. the desperation is sad"

Literally 60-70% of all the Ineos cars sold at my dealership go in for custom fabric interiors/color swaps immediately after purchase. They do this through the dealership. You're thinking about this all wrong. The Grenadier isn't an expensive Wrangler. It's a cheap Defender/G-Wagon. You can literally put $20K into upgrades on a fully loaded Grenadier and still walk away spending less than a base model Defender. Let alone a G Wagon that you can't legally drive right now until they replace the entire rear differential housing.

"lack of communication from Ineos to address customer issues. This sentiment is indirectly cemented when dealers also can not comprehend various issues. E.g. HVAC face vents blowing lukewarm air “its working as designed”

I'll take the heater not melting my face over the Wrangler rusting from the inside out, underpowered Toyota/Lexus alternative with engines exploding with 800 miles on the odometer, KNOWN issues with the intercooler on the Range Rover, and a G Wagon that cant drive on the streets without the rear differential cracking open.

"- lack of communication from Ineos to address customer issues. This sentiment is indirectly cemented when dealers also can not comprehend various issues. E.g. HVAC face vents blowing lukewarm air “its working as designed”"

I had the leaking Safari Windows issue. Took Ineos 5 hours to resolve it. They also bled my power steering fluid, checked the differential fluids, and detailed the car for free. They also gave me a loaner vehicle to use for the 1 day they had my vehicle. When my AMG GT steering column cracked with 2K miles on the odometer, Mercedes put me on a waitlist for a C-Class loaner while they took 3 months to source the part. Ended up having to lemon the vehicle because zero part availability. I also have a 2024 i7 and I cannot tell you how many recalls there's been and they give me a Mini Cooper loaner.

Even Rolls-Royce service/quality has fallen off. I took my Ghost in for an oil change and they made me UBER home. This is on a $400,000 vehicle.

I'm not saying Ineos is perfect but you clearly are living in an age pre-Covid where dealerships realized they can charge whatever, provide terrible service, and then blame the "chip shortage" for all their shortcomings. I can literally text my service advisor at Ineos on his cell phone when I have a question. BMW makes me use their customer portal for everything. You're basically mad you can't call the CEO of Ineos directly while dealers are trying their best to navigate maintaining a vehicle IN THEIR FIRST YEAR OF PRODUCTION.

I am not blaming dealers, if anything I see a pattern of dealer frustrations due to poor communications from Ineos.

I am also delineating between Ineos automotive and dealers. Not the same entity obviously. My local dealer demonstrates good customer relationship efforts. However I can feel how their efforts are hampered by poor operations within Ineos.

It’s unfortunate you had poor experience with those expensive brands, it doesn’t recalibrate my sentiment for Ineos

 

[DFW Guy]

"It’s unfortunate you had poor experience with those expensive brands, it doesn’t recalibrate my sentiment for Ineos"

You have to base sentiment on life experience. Dealers are doing their best and putting a good faith effort into logging issues, attempting repairs, while communicating with Ineos directly. Which is all that matters since it's their time loss and overhead being affected.

I also calibrate my expectations based on the problems. Do you even own a Grenadier? I'm looking at your post history and it's just you crying about nitpicks that dealers are very much aware of and are currently troubleshooting.

I am not blaming dealers, if anything I see a pattern of dealer frustrations due to poor communications from Ineos.

I am also delineating between Ineos automotive and dealers. Not the same entity obviously. My local dealer demonstrates good customer relationship efforts. However I can feel how their efforts are hampered by poor operations within Ineos.

It’s unfortunate you had poor experience with those expensive brands, it doesn’t recalibrate my sentiment for Ineos

 

[mcdoogs]

They 100% were marked up when they launched to that price point, which was the last time I actually went to look at them when they were charging $80K starting for the model with the steel wheels. Just looked up what the X-dynamics are going for at the local dealership and the price point is around $92K. But hey, you can pick up a ton of them for $60K with only 10,000 miles on the odometer. I'm sure that speaks nothing of the quality of the vehicle.

Apparently since I'm just a huge liar and Ineos fanboy, here are the people complaining about the markup on launch: https://landroverforums.com/forum/2020-defender-60/defender-$100k-markup-110297/

Oh cool so 4-5 years ago some dealers near you charged over MSRP for a brand new in-demand model and so instead of spending 15 seconds to google your long held wrong assumptions you confidently spread misinformation, and that's supposed to be an excuse? Yeah dealers charged over MSRP for Broncos too but we don't still talk about the Bronco starting at 60-70k do we? No, because it's super not true lol.

And now you are comparing X-dynamic prices to base Grenadiers for some reason, doubling down on being confidently wrong with an apples to oranges comparison.

As a counter actual anecdotal example (and not just 4 year old hearsay), in summer of 2021 I ordered a '22 110 S for MSRP and it arrived in Jan 2022. It was $70k because it had every option (ACC, air susp, tow package, rear diff, heated everything, bigger screen, rear view mirror camera, etc). MSRP absolutely achievable even then in the thick of pandemic supply shortages, you just had to have a little patience. MSRP or lower is absolutely the norm now. You know, in the present, the part of the timeline in which we exist...

By all means defend whatever you want to defend. It's your hill to die on. Just dont expect to twist the truth and easily verifiable facts into tiny little fatuous knots and not be called out on it.

 

[bikesandguitars]

I'd just like to chime in that I own two Grenadiers. I have approximately 23,000 miles, cumulative, on them. They have been 100% trouble free.

I've been very happy with the communications from my dealer, which Ineos has designated as our first line customer service contact. I haver not needed an escalation of service beyond what my dealer has provided.

I have been very happy with the first service(s) and the rate I was charged - around $550 for axle service, tire rotation, TPMS reset, synthetic oil change.

I have had a blast on three trips to Moab where my FieldMaster performed like a champ. The stock steering doesn't bother me. Actually, I like the tactile feel of the Grenadier's steering. I should say, I prefer it. My wife feels similarly about hers. But we're both old Land Cruiser people so, it feels familiar to us.

If there is one thing I've learned, the Grenadier is definitely not for everyone. But if you're a "road less traveled" person - both figuratively and literally, you just might enjoy the experience.

 

[FlyersFan76]

my angst is 95% rooted in poor customer relationship management.

- lack of communication from Ineos to address customer issues. This sentiment is indirectly cemented when dealers also can not comprehend various issues. E.g. HVAC face vents blowing lukewarm air “its working as designed”
- in a vacuum of response, one can simple conclude Ineos dgaf, or is simply incompetent at resolving them. (Ineos can engineer a tsb for regluing door seal, but anything more complex, they can’t do) The negative sentiment snowballs.. it becomes a pastime to ridicule Ineos’ ineptitude
- while all of this non communicative sht is happening, Ineos is active on the marketing front. CEO talking about useless sht like her car preferences or the ethos of the company that sir Jim gave birth to. lol seriously no one gravitated to your products due to these no-names. You “baited” us with the product.. there appears to be a “switch”. Hopefully not. Stop the baiting efforts now.
- the marketing continues with superficial things like most cringe trim engineering - different color theme, different leather.. the desperation is sad
- meanwhile crickets from Ineos on issues.. customers are going mad with diy ideas like gluing speed signs in front of the camera and fighting the hvac that’s “working as designed”, so their kids don’t freeze
- then Lynn Calder casually mentions in a podcast interview, they will fix the Adas issue. Seriously!? The customer base who placed blind faith in your startup doesn’t deserve a response, but you will give one to the interviewer? There doesn’t seem to be any intentionality in their customer loyalty strategy.
- most people here are reasonable and can give Ineos some slack, it’s just that they have demonstrated zero good will, at this point. I would be happy to be proven wrong in the near future, if they demonstrate meaningful good will towards their customers
If they actively communicate with their small fleet of less than 20k owners, the situation would be entirely different

I am not sure if it is Ineos, the Dealership, the customer or a combination of all of them but when I picked up my truck with 7 miles on the odometer. I had a brake error code light pop on the telltale and the center screen at 10 miles. My brake(s) needed servicing/replaced. At 4pm the dealer called corporate in Europe to address the issue. I was assured that it was only a faulty sensor. Not all situations are bad or ignored by the dealerships and corporate.