Sand driving - what’s your experience.

[bigleonski]

Hi all,

A couple of weeks ago now I spent a week fishing and drinking, er I mean driving, around Fraser Island, the worlds largest sand island. About 150km bottom to top, no bitumen anywhere, just beach and generally soft inland sand tracks. God’s country.

I’ve been doing this every year for about 25 years, mainly in either a V8 petrol 100 series Landcruiser, or V8 TT diesel 200 Series landcruiser - what I consider (and still do) to be the best sand 4wd around. You just can’t beat that big lazy V8 diesel for getting around in the soft stuff.

So I thought for what it’s worth I’d give a summary of how I thought it went and how it is different to the cruisers.

First things first - it did it easy, zero problems and never any doubts.

I was a little anxious on this trip. 9 blokes on the trip, every one of them ready to tear you to pieces if you stuff up the driving, and this year 2 Ineos and an Amarock. Non drivers who usually drive (we rotate each year) both own Y62 5.6L petrol Patrols (298kw of sand eating grunt), and being the sole Toyota representative every year (for 20+ years) I had a big rep to protect. The other Ineos owner is a relative novice to sand driving so the boys were just waiting for him to bog it. Suffice to say - it didn’t happen, and he towed a 5’x7’ box trailer around the island for most of the trip.

So the Ineos rep untarnished, and the doubters have been suitably impressed, although not ready to buy one (with a definite passion for beige).

So my thoughts.

The grenadier did it easy wherever we pointed it. I pretty much locked the centre diff as soon as I got on the sand. Not that I probably needed to, and rarely did need to in the landcruiser, but because I didn’t want to get caught short not knowing how it would go on the sand. Along the beach and across the soft bypass tracks, centre lock drive was all it ever needed and I was never thinking I’d need to do anything different. As the week progressed I got more and more confident in the way it did it easy and by mid week I knew it was bullet proof.

So how did it drive differently to the landcruiser?

Well I have to say at speed (60-80km/hr) along the beach at higher tides where the sand was soft it doesn’t track as well as the cruisers do. It would tend to drift off line a bit and didn’t follow the tracks already made in the sand as well as a cruiser and would wander off if I wasn’t careful. Nothing approaching a problem, but you needed to watch it more than I am used to.
Ronny Dahl has mentioned before that it tends to react slowly, like a boat, when you’re at a bit of speed and turning quickly in and out of tracks, and I found it the same. A number of times I would oversteer and find I’d turned too tightly because the steering didn’t react as quickly as I thought it would. Punching through Ngkala Rocks where it’s super soft for a good 500m or so with a lot of turns where you need to keep momentum up I’d oversteered a bit thinking it wasn’t going where I wanted to, only to find it was getting there, just with a bit of a delay. I got better at picking it as the week progressed.
A number of times I had to quickly pull up in really soft sand when I’d turned a corner and found someone else bogged on the track. Never once was I concerned I’d bogged myself having to pull up in a hurry. Just in reverse, easy on the pedal and back out to where I needed to go.

The major difference though is how the gearbox works when powering through the soft stuff.
Crossing Ngkala Rocks in the V8 cruisers I would rarely need to put it in manual mode and drive in a selected gear unless ot was powder dry - the box just did what it had to do and plow through to get you to the end.
The grenny does it very differently however. The first time I crossed it, I just left it in drive and it would rev itself up in second up to high revs and then just drop into third and slug along and then drop back to second and rev up until it dropped again. Never looked like getting stuck, but a bit concerning and if the sand was softer a shift up into third might have been a bit of a worry. Doing that first crossing I was just concentrating on getting across without being the first to bog it, so didn’t do anything about the gears.
On the trip back after the first run though, I put it in manual third and shifted back and forth between second and third when I needed to and it was a whole different vehicle. Just ate it up. Subsequent crossings in manual were easy.
So in very soft sand, always drive in manual mode is my recommendation. The box just isn’t as good as a cruisers at figuring it out in my view.

What else.
Only three little things.
The passenger side door button now sticks occasionally because of the salt and sand.
I had a knock in the steering column in the same place at rotation that I only noticed when I was back on the black top - it was constantly doing it when I got home but that’s settled down a bit and only occasionally now. Will get that looked at in a 1000km time at first service.
And the plastic grill that “protects” the bottom of the radiator I found broken off and sitting below where it normally sits when I washed it the weekend after I got home. Must have not been able to handle the pressure on one of the many freshwater crossings you encounter on the island. Very flimsy stuff really.
And I’d expected the rear guard that covers the exhaust to be a sand collector/anchor. But after using the under body wash on the trip home the underbody is surprisingly sand free, much less that what would have been left on the cruiser. I am a bit worried about what might be hiding behind all that silver protection/deadening everywhere under the grenny, so might get under there with a spanner and remove a bit to see what that might be hiding.
Oh, and the guy from Ineos that developed the internal plastic linings, particularly in the rear, needs sacking if he still has a job. You’ve only got to lean something against it for it to scratch, and if anything rests on it during a full run up the beach the plastic is stuffed. I want a free set of plastic trims under warranty to put on it when I sell it in 20-30 years time.

All in all, very very happy with its first proper test as a 4wd, very confident now it will go anywhere I point it, and grinning from ear to ear when I jump in.

If you’ve lasted this long, sorry for the huge post, and I hope others who take it on the sand use this thread to post their thoughts.

Cheers.
BL

 

[Tazzieman]

Our collective bias is confirmed!

 

[bigleonski]

Oh, and the bloody thing is a nightmare to clean!!!!!

 

[Tazzieman]

Oh, and the bloody thing is a nightmare to clean!!!!!

Can't you get one of those mobile underbody sprayers? Or pay a hobbit?

 

[bigleonski]

Can't you get one of those mobile underbody sprayers? Or pay a hobbit?

I’m taking about the bit above the wheels.
But a hobbit would be handy to toss up onto the roof to do that bit.

 

[Tazzieman]

I’m taking about the bit above the wheels.
But a hobbit would be handy to toss up onto the roof to do that bit.

Some sort of...ladder?

 

[globalgregors]

Hi all,

A couple of weeks ago now I spent a week fishing and drinking, er I mean driving, around Fraser Island, the worlds largest sand island. About 150km bottom to top, no bitumen anywhere, just beach and generally soft inland sand tracks. God’s country.

I’ve been doing this every year for about 25 years, mainly in either a V8 petrol 100 series Landcruiser, or V8 TT diesel 200 Series landcruiser - what I consider (and still do) to be the best sand 4wd around. You just can’t beat that big lazy V8 diesel for getting around in the soft stuff.

So I thought for what it’s worth I’d give a summary of how I thought it went and how it is different to the cruisers.

First things first - it did it easy, zero problems and never any doubts.

I was a little anxious on this trip. 9 blokes on the trip, every one of them ready to tear you to pieces if you stuff up the driving, and this year 2 Ineos and an Amarock. Non drivers who usually drive (we rotate each year) both own Y62 5.6L petrol Patrols (298kw of sand eating grunt), and being the sole Toyota representative every year (for 20+ years) I had a big rep to protect. The other Ineos owner is a relative novice to sand driving so the boys were just waiting for him to bog it. Suffice to say - it didn’t happen, and he towed a 5’x7’ box trailer around the island for most of the trip.

So the Ineos rep untarnished, and the doubters have been suitably impressed, although not ready to buy one (with a definite passion for beige).

So my thoughts.

The grenadier did it easy wherever we pointed it. I pretty much locked the centre diff as soon as I got on the sand. Not that I probably needed to, and rarely did need to in the landcruiser, but because I didn’t want to get caught short not knowing how it would go on the sand. Along the beach and across the soft bypass tracks, centre lock drive was all it ever needed and I was never thinking I’d need to do anything different. As the week progressed I got more and more confident in the way it did it easy and by mid week I knew it was bullet proof.

So how did it drive differently to the landcruiser?

Well I have to say at speed (60-80km/hr) along the beach at higher tides where the sand was soft it doesn’t track as well as the cruisers do. It would tend to drift off line a bit and didn’t follow the tracks already made in the sand as well as a cruiser and would wander off if I wasn’t careful. Nothing approaching a problem, but you needed to watch it more than I am used to.
Ronny Dahl has mentioned before that it tends to react slowly, like a boat, when you’re at a bit of speed and turning quickly in and out of tracks, and I found it the same. A number of times I would oversteer and find I’d turned too tightly because the steering didn’t react as quickly as I thought it would. Punching through Ngkala Rocks where it’s super soft for a good 500m or so with a lot of turns where you need to keep momentum up I’d oversteered a bit thinking it wasn’t going where I wanted to, only to find it was getting there, just with a bit of a delay. I got better at picking it as the week progressed.
A number of times I had to quickly pull up in really soft sand when I’d turned a corner and found someone else bogged on the track. Never once was I concerned I’d bogged myself having to pull up in a hurry. Just in reverse, easy on the pedal and back out to where I needed to go.

The major difference though is how the gearbox works when powering through the soft stuff.
Crossing Ngkala Rocks in the V8 cruisers I would rarely need to put it in manual mode and drive in a selected gear unless ot was powder dry - the box just did what it had to do and plow through to get you to the end.
The grenny does it very differently however. The first time I crossed it, I just left it in drive and it would rev itself up in second up to high revs and then just drop into third and slug along and then drop back to second and rev up until it dropped again. Never looked like getting stuck, but a bit concerning and if the sand was softer a shift up into third might have been a bit of a worry. Doing that first crossing I was just concentrating on getting across without being the first to bog it, so didn’t do anything about the gears.
On the trip back after the first run though, I put it in manual third and shifted back and forth between second and third when I needed to and it was a whole different vehicle. Just ate it up. Subsequent crossings in manual were easy.
So in very soft sand, always drive in manual mode is my recommendation. The box just isn’t as good as a cruisers at figuring it out in my view.

What else.
Only three little things.
The passenger side door button now sticks occasionally because of the salt and sand.
I had a knock in the steering column in the same place at rotation that I only noticed when I was back on the black top - it was constantly doing it when I got home but that’s settled down a bit and only occasionally now. Will get that looked at in a 1000km time at first service.
And the plastic grill that “protects” the bottom of the radiator I found broken off and sitting below where it normally sits when I washed it the weekend after I got home. Must have not been able to handle the pressure on one of the many freshwater crossings you encounter on the island. Very flimsy stuff really.
And I’d expected the rear guard that covers the exhaust to be a sand collector/anchor. But after using the under body wash on the trip home the underbody is surprisingly sand free, much less that what would have been left on the cruiser. I am a bit worried about what might be hiding behind all that silver protection/deadening everywhere under the grenny, so might get under there with a spanner and remove a bit to see what that might be hiding.
Oh, and the guy from Ineos that developed the internal plastic linings, particularly in the rear, needs sacking if he still has a job. You’ve only got to lean something against it for it to scratch, and if anything rests on it during a full run up the beach the plastic is stuffed. I want a free set of plastic trims under warranty to put on it when I sell it in 20-30 years time.

All in all, very very happy with its first proper test as a 4wd, very confident now it will go anywhere I point it, and grinning from ear to ear when I jump in.

If you’ve lasted this long, sorry for the huge post, and I hope others who take it on the sand use this thread to post their thoughts.

Cheers.
BL

Great report, delighted that your reputation held up!

I wonder if the tracking issue is a by product of the Gren’s track width? I think there’s only an inch in it (versus 300 series, Y62), but if I think back to Wrangler ownership I speculated that this, combined with the short wheelbase, accounted for a comparable ‘instability’ in sand (Wrangler is another inch narrower than the Gren). Pure speculation.

Very much agree on the plastics in the back. A major bonus of our rear loadspace fitout is that it conceals the deep gouges left by cargo moving around on the dunes.

I’m a fan of low range in the beach sand, but I guess it depends on the conditions. 5th in low versus 3rd in high is going after the same logic (reducing the torque put through to the surface), it may just represent a bit of a difference at take-off and in terms of revs. Only real experience in beach sand was at Coral Bay in WA though so your experience here is of interest…

It’s possible to get onto the sand here in Nova Scotia however it looks pretty hard-packed so I’m not sure we’ll make the trip.

 

[chrsbe]

After 4 weeks in the sahara desert with a stock Grenadier i can confirm the above. It does very well. Very dry and soft sand can clog the abs sensors. Esp off button is your friend. I got stuck many many times. A moderate lift would have helped here and there. Most of the time i drove it in automatic mode. Just in hairy situations i had to switch to manual. The tendency to drift out of a track I think it is the high weight of the car that plays a role here.

 

[trobex]

Your experience is identical to mine.
- it does wander a little in the softer sand
- it takes a little more to correct, but then ditto you over correct and have to feather it back
- ground clearance is a little low at 2.7T... I found 'flat streaks' behind me on some softer / deeper sand tracks and that lead to
- LOTS OF SAND IN LOTS OF PLACES... I think it took me nearly 1.5 hours to actually get all the sand from underneath.
- as to driving on sand, the GREN is excellent - it really is. I sat in auto for about 80% of the circa 150km+ on sand.
- I did use manual mode this one time, when I was driving "over and across" 3 or 4 soft sand tracks and I didn't want the gearbox to get confused with the reasonably bumpy traverse!
- Chinese made side steps are crap, and you really need to clean AND coat them with some anti corrosion. The powder coat is cheap as it gets in my view.
- A fair bit of sand can find its way 'behind/below' all the removal plastic floor inserts. That is annoying. Should be a full body plastic from toe to rear of car with upturns AT ALL LOCATIONS REQUIRES such as rear seats/battery housing. Took another hour roughly to actually get all the sand out (what I could see) from internal of car.
- Again, enjoyable on sand for sure, albeit a little tedious with the RHD footwell forcing my left side of knee into the console 24/7... bumps come through harder that way!

- EDIT: Have not needed low range in sand yet.

 

[chrsbe]

I still find sand in mine.
On that trip I invested a few minutes every evening to clean the cockpit. At least a little bit. A bristle brush and an air tank on the compressor is very helpful.

 

[Mike Morrison]

My concern with sand driving is the ESC that automatically resumes if vehicle speed reaches 80km/h. In Namibia there are numerous “rollercoaster” dunes where you are doing 100-120 km/h to get over them. The ESC should remain deactivated until YOU switch it back on or you switch the vehicle off - this is how Toyotas and Landies work.

 

[chrsbe]

Wow 120kmh
When does offroad mode deactivates itself? Is this also speed related?

 

[Mike Morrison]

Wow 120kmh
When does offroad mode deactivates itself? Is this also speed related?

70km/h

 

[Steve A]

I used to do mud runs in my old ford p/u and I used one of these to clean the underside. about every 15 minutes just pull it back to the next area

What is a good Flight Log Decryption program and what is the cost?

 

[Zimm]

My experience is, you'll sell the fucking truck with sand in it. The shit is an organism, and breeds.

 

[Braydo]

My experience is, you'll sell the fucking truck with sand in it. The shit is an organism, and breeds.

This is the truth. Use the vehicle right and it will forever exude sand and red dust.

Told the buyer of my previous 4WD to enjoy the sand of Fraser Island on his driveway and the red dust of the outback at every wash. And that he better bloody well add to it or I'd be gravely disappointed. He took a solemn oath that indeed he would.

 

[TheDocAUS]

SIMPSON DERERT CROSSING – over 1,100 sand dunes later
My first sand driving was a Simpson Desert crossing from west to east. I was tail end Charlie and after 1,100 sand dunes, with the last one being Big Red, I had learnt some things about sand driving.

We had a tour guide who would help with suggestions for each dune. Our tour guide was Dave from Great Divide Tours. Being tail end Charlie I could see what worked and what did not. Tyre pressures and momentum being the two big factors.

A Toyota Prado owner was telling everyone how his Prado was better than my Nissan Patrol (Y61). I enjoyed recovering him two days later, when he got bogged on a sand dune.

First image is me heading towards the start point all clean. Next two are in various parts of the Simpson Desert, not so clean. Last image is taken at the iconic Birdsville Pub, the end of the crossing and trip. Little did I know 10 years later I would have a car similar to the Defender 110 next to my Patrol.

 

[LeftCoastOverland]

I’ve had good success with this product: https://4wdetail.com/collections/4w...s-shield™-anti-corrosion-super-charging-agent

It’s applied to the undercarriage a day or two ahead of a beach trip. I coated mine with 1/2 a litre before a few days on Moreton, and retuned to wash everything off promptly after hitting the mainland again. All the sand and grime came away with ease. Definitely worth the 20 min of prevention. They sell a 3 pack of their wash and seal along with the chassis shield, I’ve been happy with all 3. About ready for another round of the stuff.

 

[Pfk]

Great feedback, thanks for sharing.

In my few times in the dunes in the UAE, the gren has performed well for what it’s designed for, although my expectations were higher prior to receiving the vehicle.

Iv found I needed to be lower than usual on tyre pressure (less than 15psi on the soft sand)
Gears are usually on low gear and center diff lock most of the time with esp off and Offroad engaged.
Low gear seems to disable the shadow / ghost traction control almost entirely but not completely, which I think the UAE group is coming up with a kill switch for (patiently waiting)…
Ground clearance is an issue on soft sand and the weight can be felt.
A lift kit and/or larger tires has been the solution to some for this but personally I have not taken that route yet.
The turbo kicks in fine, and the power is available, it’s a matter of knowing when it will kick in when you are ascending a dune on the gear you are in that will make the difference in success or failure. i would have wished for an extra two cylinders of power for this type of terrain.
The ac filter is a nightmare with sand collection, good luck with that cuz most users in the uae have experienced massive collection of sand in the filter. It really is an issue on this vehicle, even with recirculation on.
The grenadier seems to be a sand magnet, there are almost no proper door seems as sand gets into most and gets stuck deep in there, the knobs on center console are all ingrained with sand now on my gren so turning up or down the ac or volume or temperature all have a nice sandy grain feeling to them now. Cleaning it is a mission.

Engaging the lockers while bogged down or stuck in between (1 or 2 tires off) is almost mission impossible for me (worked once out of the few times only) but when it works, it’s a life saver. Again Iv never had to on any other previous japenese vehicle be in either low gear or lockers on sand, but times are different now..

Love it, and still learning how to handle the gren on sand but that’s been my experience last season.
Hoping this season I am more accustomed to its ways to enjoy it more.

Phil