Americas Price shock (US)

[pioneerofthenile]

@pioneerofthenile Ineos reps at drive events and several car mag reviews citing company sources have referenced a $70k price ballpark for the Trialmaster/Belstaff editions. Obviously we won't know the actual price points until 5/17, but it would be surprising to see the base model priced at $78k.

I have a hard time believing a semi loaded already packaged up grenadier will only be 70k. it might be. people have translated eu and au cost to usd and it just seems to come up low. maybe I'm just jaded and expect to be taken for a ride.

 

[Norville]

78K usd for the base model is a good starting point. this is the amount they originally said including the 15% inflation hike. I don't see how anybody could approach things any other way.

can't rule out another price increase to the additional 15% they added last year as well. they can use inflation a great excuse to raise the price to whatever they want.









the bronco is a good example on where the market is. ineos could rape the us customers if they wanted to.

I'll agree to disagree. If it is that pricing to start, I'm out. I'll have to look elsewhere. That makes this vehicle value proposition very low for an unproven brand. While apples to oranges, we could get a much better overall value elsewhere if we were honest with ourselves.

It's a mass produced item, not a Fabrege egg.

 

[DaveB]

I'll agree to disagree. If it is that pricing to start, I'm out. I'll have to look elsewhere. That makes this vehicle value proposition very low for an unproven brand. While apples to oranges, we could get a much better overall value elsewhere if we were honest with ourselves.

It's a mass produced items, not a Fabrege egg.

Like lots of vehicles the price doesn't suit everyone.
In Australia my Grenadier cost me $121,116, which is USD$80,102 but the same vehicle would now cost $133,221, which is USD$88,107.
When I tell people that they can't even come to grips with spending that much money on a car.
Most are spending half that.
A few of my friends are spending $150,000 on a new Mercedes or similar so they think mine is a bargain.

 

[pioneerofthenile]

Like lots of vehicles the price doesn't suit everyone.
In Australia my Grenadier cost me $121,116, which is USD$80,102 but the same vehicle would now cost $133,221, which is USD$88,107.
When I tell people that they can't even come to grips with spending that much money on a car.
Most are spending half that.
A few of my friends are spending $150,000 on a new Mercedes or similar so they think mine is a bargain.

I hope the usa prices isn't as high as I said. but many people still can't come to grips with what our current administration has done to make inflation soar the past 3 years.

the fed says they're going to raise interest rate as well. multiple times. it's pretty awful and I continue to lol @ virtually the high cost of everything in the usa.

 

[DCPU]

That makes this vehicle value proposition very low for an unproven brand.

I don't see how proven/unproven comes into the value proposition? If Ineos should discount the price because they are unproven, then does that mean they should increase the price when it's proven?

What exactly is a proven brand. If all the established car manufacturers are deemed proven then what about their warranty/recall records?

All/most of the proven brands have vacated this niche market, isn't that why Ineos exist in the first place? That can't be a negative.

Don't we all do our own form of "due diligence" around the vehicle value proposition based more on our own personal circumstances/finances setting the height of the bar and then "kicking the tyres" of the actual vehicle to see whether it gets over that bar?

While apples to oranges, we could get a much better overall value elsewhere if we were honest with ourselves.

We could buy a cheaper vehicle, or indeed a more expensive one but that's not value if it doesn't have the same features, packaged in a similar manner.

It's a mass produced item, not a Fabrege egg.

To a degree ~ again it's a niche product so the scale of economies applied to Jeep buying axles can't be seen to apply to Ineos.

 

[vjmvjm]

I hope the usa prices isn't as high as I said. but many people still can't come to grips with what our current administration has done to make inflation soar the past 3 years.

the fed says they're going to raise interest rate as well. multiple times. it's pretty awful and I continue to lol @ virtually the high cost of everything in the usa.

Yeah, a depression and deflation would have been so much better.

 

[Traffic]

I don't see how proven/unproven comes into the value proposition?

There seems to be an attitude on this forum that there is no substitute for the IG or if youre considering something else you didn't understand the IG anyway. In the real world, most of us still need to make rational decisions when it comes to money.

If two vehicles are similar in most aspects, price, size, philosophy of use, etc., the one with a proven reliability is probably going to get the nod.

I know I can easily get 250k miles out of a GX460 and do 98% of what an IG can do. The IG could blow that out of the water or it could be a total dog. Should I take that risk?

If they end up being the same price, the IG is going to look like way less of a good deal. Isnt that how markets work?

 

[ADVAW8S]

There seems to be an attitude on this forum that there is no substitute for the IG or if youre considering something else you didn't understand the IG anyway. In the real world, most of us still need to make rational decisions when it comes to money.

If two vehicles are similar in most aspects, price, size, philosophy of use, etc., the one with a proven reliability is probably going to get the nod.

I know I can easily get 250k miles out of a GX460 and do 98% of what an IG can do. The IG could blow that out of the water or it could be a total dog. Should I take that risk?

If they end up being the same price, the IG is going to look like way less of a good deal. Isnt that how markets work?

I would say there is a misconception between value and price. Price is a hard number whereas value is a perceived number. Each person based upon their own wants, needs and perception will place a different value on an item. Nowadays, many times individuals will assume that two items of similar nature should be priced similar and because they share similar traits are the same value. I like to call that the Amazon effect.

In the end not everyone will be happy with the price because what they view is value for that price will not be met.

 

[DaveB]

There seems to be an attitude on this forum that there is no substitute for the IG or if youre considering something else you didn't understand the IG anyway. In the real world, most of us still need to make rational decisions when it comes to money.

If two vehicles are similar in most aspects, price, size, philosophy of use, etc., the one with a proven reliability is probably going to get the nod.

I know I can easily get 250k miles out of a GX460 and do 98% of what an IG can do. The IG could blow that out of the water or it could be a total dog. Should I take that risk?

If they end up being the same price, the IG is going to look like way less of a good deal. Isnt that how markets work?

If the GX460 meets your use case then you should buy it.
Being a Toyota it will last forever and generally be very reliable.
Personally I would need to park it in a way that I only ever walked up from behind it
The load rating is extremely low, 1,300lbs or 590 kgs on average, on it like all the new Landcruiser's.
So by the time you fill the fuel tank, hook up a caravan/trailer and put 4 people in it you will need to leave the dog and any luggage at home.

 

[DCPU]

There seems to be an attitude on this forum that there is no substitute for the IG or if youre considering something else you didn't understand the IG anyway.

Equally why would someone want to post here regularly if they have looked at, considered and discounted the Grenadier?

In the real world, most of us still need to make rational decisions when it comes to money.

I always make sure the cat is fed before I make the next car payment ~ is that what you mean?

If two vehicles are similar in most aspects, price, size, philosophy of use, etc., the one with a proven reliability is probably going to get the nod.

Only if the other has a proven record of unreliability does your statement stand up; otherwise how are you deciding that the one with an unproven record will not actually end up having a better record. Lack of evidence of good reliability is not evidence of poor reliability.

 

[Traffic]

Thanks for illusting my earlier point.

Though, I thought the last GX my friend built looks quite good.

 

[Traffic]

Equally why would someone want to post here regularly if they have looked at, considered and discounted the Grenadier?

Because it's cool. Because I want one and hope it's affordable and as good as everyone thinks it will be.

Only if the other has a proven record of unreliability does your statement stand up; otherwise how are you deciding that the one with an unproven record will not actually end up having a better record. Lack of evidence of good reliability is not evidence of poor reliability.

Im not making any predictions about the IGs reliability. But I disagree that a record of reliability doesnt affect the value proposition. If you have reasonable confidence in one outcome and limited data in another, it adds risk to the decision. And risk changes the value proposition.

 

[Krabby]

If the GX460 meets your use case then you should buy it.
Being a Toyota it will last forever and generally be very reliable.
Personally I would need to park it in a way that I only ever walked up from behind it
The load rating is extremely low, 1,300lbs or 590 kgs on average, on it like all the new Landcruiser's.
So by the time you fill the fuel tank, hook up a caravan/trailer and put 4 people in it you will need to leave the dog and any luggage at home.



View attachment 7809937

And a face only a mother could politely recommend plastic surgery.

 

[IG_in_AZ]

We were shopping for a new SUV for my wife a few years back, and she's been a big Toyota fan, having previously owned a 4Runner and a Taco. We drove onto the Toyota and Lexus dealer's lots, she looked at the front ends and said they all looked like they had snowplows attached. She bought a Subaru Ascent. It's been great for her. I've driven it a few times, and for on road, occasional snow, monsoon rains, it's fine. But yeah, that front end on Toyota / Lexus and the new BMW eyesore grilles. What are they thinking?

 

[bemax]

We were shopping for a new SUV for my wife a few years back, and she's been a big Toyota fan, having previously owned a 4Runner and a Taco. We drove onto the Toyota and Lexus dealer's lots, she looked at the front ends and said they all looked like they had snowplows attached. She bought a Subaru Ascent. It's been great for her. I've driven it a few times, and for on road, occasional snow, monsoon rains, it's fine. But yeah, that front end on Toyota / Lexus and the new BMW eyesore grilles. What are they thinking?

Regarding BMW someone told me in the past that they do not design the cars for the European market but for the Strom Chinese market as well. There seems to be a demand for more aggressive King Kong-styled fronts.
But that’s only one information which is not backed by any official interview or so.
Fact is that all brands try to create unmistakable frontlines. Due to efficiency and crash safety the car’s body become more and more similar to each other. (If your neighbour can’t see that your Mercedes is a Mercedes and thinks it is a Nissan the show effect is gone.)
So the manufacturer have to find ways to make it „their“ car in any way.
This can end up in the in my opinion ridiculous design of eg the Toyota in question or the actual BMW models and some cars of Audi as well.