Americas Picked up My Grenadier!

[Makers52129]

That is CA in action

Doesn’t Virginia require front plates also?

 

[FourLew2]

The demonstrator vehicles are not MY24, and thus do not have ADAS

Talked to my dealer; he said he didn't know anything about ADAS.

Corresponded with Ineos today. Was told you will have to go through the infotainment system to turn off ADAS EVERY TIME you start the vehicle; NO WAY TO SET LIMITS on the alerts, they consider it a safety measure and no plans to modify the system. I'll be looking at 24 Power Wagon - won't have the "COOL" factor of the IG but is a more capable vehicle for $10K less.

 

[Mr.Espresso]

Talked to my dealer; he said he didn't know anything about ADAS.

Corresponded with Ineos today. Was told you will have to go through the infotainment system to turn off ADAS EVERY TIME you start the vehicle; NO WAY TO SET LIMITS on the alerts, they consider it a safety measure and no plans to modify the system. I'll be looking at 24 Power Wagon - won't have the "COOL" factor of the IG but is a more capable vehicle for $10K less.

I would never have thought a Grenadier would be cross-shopped against a Power Wagon. They just seem worlds apart. Defender, Land Cruiser, G-Wagon I understand. Power wagon, now that’s left field. Sergio Marchionne must be smiling in heaven.

 

[MTNDOG]

I would never have thought a Grenadier would be cross-shopped against a Power Wagon. They just seem worlds apart. Defender, Land Cruiser, G-Wagon I understand. Power wagon, now that’s left field. Sergio Marchionne must be smiling in heaven.

Factory front and rear lockers, factory warn winch, factory 4.10s, factory sway bar disconnect. Power Wagon was on my short list as well. I guess I cross shop a bit different, pick a price point and see what is available. Finally got to demo the Ineos today, have a VIN, and hopefully mine will show up in April.

 

[bazooka tooth]

Doesn’t Virginia require front plates also?

VA does, I haven't seen much by way of enforcement though. I only have one antique plate on the back of my D90.

 

[Chadd7]

Talked to my dealer; he said he didn't know anything about ADAS.

Corresponded with Ineos today. Was told you will have to go through the infotainment system to turn off ADAS EVERY TIME you start the vehicle; NO WAY TO SET LIMITS on the alerts, they consider it a safety measure and no plans to modify the system. I'll be looking at 24 Power Wagon - won't have the "COOL" factor of the IG but is a more capable vehicle for $10K less.

My dealer said that a software fix is in the works. The ADAS system does have to be reset every time, but others have used a "favorites" shortcut to reduce the number of steps to reset until a software revision becomes available. Just making sure you are making the decision based on all info out there.

 

[[ Adam ]]

VA does, I haven't seen much by way of enforcement though. I only have one antique plate on the back of my D90.

VA Antique tags (black) are only issued as singles.
Lack of front plate cannot be used as a primary offense.

 

[[ Adam ]]

My dealer said that a software fix is in the works. The ADAS system does have to be reset every time, but others have used a "favorites" shortcut to reduce the number of steps to reset until a software revision becomes available. Just making sure you are making the decision based on all info out there.

Sir, this is an internet forum. Facts and rational thoughts have no place here.

 

[Catpaw4x4]

Doesn’t Virginia require front plates also?

Yes it does - not aware of any law though where law enforcement will patrol parking lots and issue tickets to vehicles where the front plate is missing. CA seems to have some special rules. Love reading the news at the end of the year listing the "laws" in different states which are to be abolished because it was finally realized they were absurd.
Here's the complete list of states that currently require a front license plate: (sourced from https://www.autolist.com/guides/front-license-plate )

• California
• Colorado
• Connecticut
• Hawaii
• Idaho
• Illinois
• Iowa
• Maine
• Maryland
• Massachusetts
• Minnesota
• Missouri
• Montana
• Nebraska
• Nevada
• New Hampshire
• New Jersey
• New York
• North Dakota
• Oregon
• Rhode Island
• South Dakota
• Texas
• Utah
• Vermont
• Virginia
• Washington
• Wisconsin
• Wyoming

 

[Cheshire cat]

If only you knew, who rides Harley’s stateside. You would be heading straight to your local Moto Guzzi dealership…

It was a 3000 mile road trip in the States that had me purchasing a Harley once back in UK. Over ten years, the Fat Bob was faultless but half the joy was making the bike unique to me. In reality, that meant all the extras that everyone agreed, looked cool. Sold the bike for Three thousand less than I paid, ten years earlier. Now on a BMW R18.

 

[zvakanaka]

Thank you. I think I was the first in the Southeast, not because I'm special but because I forgot to order the trailer hitch!

Oh good one and congratulations I get mine on Tuesday in Florida

 

[Bruce]

I'll be looking at 24 Power Wagon - won't have the "COOL" factor of the IG but is a more capable vehicle for $10K less.

Careful. If it's a '24 it will probably have all the nannies Ineos was required by law to put in. There is more likelihood of an aftermarket fix with a RAM, though, and the alerts may be less obnoxious. You won't know until you drive it.

 

[stickshifter]

I would never have thought a Grenadier would be cross-shopped against a Power Wagon. They just seem worlds apart. Defender, Land Cruiser, G-Wagon I understand. Power wagon, now that’s left field. Sergio Marchionne must be smiling in heaven.

I think they are world's apart if size is a major factor in one's purchasing decision. Vehicle size has a lot to do with end-use, so it is - of course - a major factor. If someone is looking for a 4x4 that is roughly the size of the Grenadier, then one might cross shop the Grenadier with the Wrangler, new Defender, Bronco, or G-Wagen (sticking to vehicle in the North American market) - but it would not make sense to cross shop it with a heavy duty truck.

For some folks, a solid front axle might be a priority, in which case the Defender and Bronco drop out of that list, as does any G-Wagen built after the 2018 model year.

But having a vehicle the size of the Grenadier may not always be the most important factor for every buyer.

I would guess that there are some folk for whom the Grenadier is actually a little too small, but they are still considering the Grenadier because it ticks so many other boxes for them. I'd be in that camp. But my ideal Grenadier would have a longer wheel base, more cargo room, and longer control arms so that I could lift it, put on larger tires, and thereby mitigate the reduced break-over angle of the longer wheelbase.

This is where the Power Wagon comes in - and it would be a slam dunk for me, except it is too big. I want something exactly half way between the Grenadier and PW - call me Goldilocks

Most of what follows is objective, but a few things (like seat comfort) are subjective.

Here are some key features of a rugged 4x4 that the Gren and PW have in common:
(1) Stout frame
(2) Solid axles front and rear
(3) A 2-speed transfer case with a manual shifter
(4) An 8-speed transmission made by ZF
(5) Locking differentials on both front and rear axles (standard on the PW, an extra charge with the Gren)

Here are some advantages of the Gren:
(1) Arguably, the "right" size for an off-roader
(2) A much better size for around town, and really for anything other than carrying lots of stuff
(3) Much better visibility over the hood - very important for off-road driving
(4) Better seats
(5) "Street mode" is all-wheel drive (as opposed to rear-wheel drive)
(6) An option for dual batteries wired from the factory
(7) You can manually shift the auto-transmission (on the PW, you can lock-out gears, but you cannot manually shift)
(8) The Gren is ~1,000 pounds lighter than the PW. In general, weight is your enemy off-road (but it is your friend when towing)

Here are some advantages of the PW:
(1) 45% more horse power than the gas-powered Gren (410 vs 282)
(2) 30% more torque than the gas-powered Gren (429 vs 332)
(3) A heavy-duty ZF transmission that is rated at a higher capacity than the ZF in the gas-powered Gren
(4) Heavier duty axles that are full-float (why full-float axles are better for an overlander)
(5) A winch comes standard on all PWs, and it has a full-length cable (the Gren winch, if you buy one, has a cable that is about one-third standard length)
(6) Disconnecting front sway bar
(7) A frame and chassis capable of carrying 5,000 pounds of payload. Actual payload in the PW is limited by soft springs tuned for maximum wheel articulation. Payload in the PW is about the same as a similarly equipped (winch, etc.) Grenadier Trialmaster (both have around 1500 pounds of payload). There is an easy spring upgrade for the PW that gets payload to 2,000 pounds. Maybe there will be a similar set of springs for the Grenadier - I'm not sure if the Eibach suspension lift increases payload.
(8) Massive storage capacity
(9) Some excellent after-market suspension kits - easy to run 37-inch tires, that will - to some degree - mitigate the massive wheelbase.
(10) A heated steering wheel - for those of us living in a cold cold world
(11) A network of dealers all over the U.S. for service
(12) For some: a big, under-stressed, naturally aspirated V8 (6.4 liter Hemi) will be seen as a big advantage in terms of longevity
(13) The PW can tow 3,000 pounds more than the Gren (10,500 pounds vs 7,500 pounds)

The main disadvantage of the PW is that it is too big for some trails, and too big for most international travel. Obviously, it is really big for city driving as well, but where I live in rural America, heavy duty trucks are everywhere, parking spaces are big, and roads are wide.

Lots of folk will jump on this and say that another disadvantage of the PW is that it is made by Stellantis. There is absolutely no proof yet that the Gren will be more reliable than the PW. Maybe it will. It is made by Magna Steyr, so many of us expect that it will be a very well-made and reliable vehicle. But we have no actual proof of long-term reliability - not yet. So far, there have been a lot of "first-model year problems" - though most people on this forum believe that those will all be resolved by Ineos. I think it is fair to say that the jury is still out with regard to reliability - regardless of our expectations.

 

[cjsmith]

It was a 3000 mile road trip in the States that had me purchasing a Harley once back in UK. Over ten years, the Fat Bob was faultless but half the joy was making the bike unique to me. In reality, that meant all the extras that everyone agreed, looked cool. Sold the bike for Three thousand less than I paid, ten years earlier. Now on a BMW R18.

Loved the Fat Bob.

 

[FlyingTexan]

The transmission on the gasser is the -51 variant which doesn’t seem very robust with its limitation

 

[FourLew2]

My dealer said that a software fix is in the works. The ADAS system does have to be reset every time, but others have used a "favorites" shortcut to reduce the number of steps to reset until a software revision becomes available. Just making sure you are making the decision based on all info out there.

Thanks, I hope you're correct. I v'e been on-board since the beginning and really want to take delivery; but only if I they are serious about eliminating the ADAS issue. Ever since I saw the first Gren, I never thought about any vehicle but since the ADAS situation came up, I have have been looking hard. I haven't found any vehicle in the US where these type ADAS systems are anything but OPTIONAL, so I don't understand Ineous's hard stance on not changing. Hopefully, the person I was communicating with only had access to "stock" responses and someone above his/her pat grade is looking into it.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Thanks, I hope you're correct. I v'e been on-board since the beginning and really want to take delivery; but only if I they are serious about eliminating the ADAS issue. Ever since I saw the first Gren, I never thought about any vehicle but since the ADAS situation came up, I have have been looking hard. I haven't found any vehicle in the US where these type ADAS systems are anything but OPTIONAL, so I don't understand Ineous's hard stance on not changing. Hopefully, the person I was communicating with only had access to "stock" responses and someone above his/her pat grade is looking into it.

That’s because the laws hadn’t gone into effect yet. It was part of Biden’s transportation package that was shoved through without anyone reading it. New vehicles will all have to have it.

 

[stickshifter]

That’s because the laws hadn’t gone into effect yet. It was part of Biden’s transportation package that was shoved through without anyone reading it. New vehicles will all have to have it.

Yup. They snuck it through without anyone noticing, and without any debate. Here is the text from the bill that pertains to the "drunk/drowsy driver detection"

 

[nuclearbeef]

That’s because the laws hadn’t gone into effect yet. It was part of Biden’s transportation package that was shoved through without anyone reading it. New vehicles will all have to have it.

Yes, but not until year model 2026 in the US. ADAS is currently required in EU. Doubtless why it is on our vehicles.
INEOS could make it permanently defeatable for US market cars if they want.
I have my doubts as to whether their lawyers will let them do so.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Yes, but not until year model 2026 in the US. ADAS is currently required in EU. Doubtless why it is on our vehicles.
INEOS could make it permanently defeatable for US market cars if they want.
I have my doubts as to whether their lawyers will let them do so.

2024 year models, not 2026. Maybe for a few core other features but 2024 YM was the main push.