Option: Carraro axles & diff.-lockers

[Nixon_04]

Hello,

are the Carraro axles identically, doesn't matter how you decide regarding the option diff-lockers? Or ist there an additional benefit by choosing the diff-lockers to get also an "advanced" Carraro axle version?
I am planning not to choose the option front/rear diff-lockers, maybe I should change my mind....

 

[Deepblue]

Hi @Nixon_04 , not sur if different axles with or without the locks.
Maybe the following is of help:
In the video (after min 27) that @emax posted driver states the locks are an option you must order from factory or never. Adding them later would mean you have to change the complete axles. For me that‘s a rather convincing argument.

Best
Deepblue

 

[Deepblue]

sorry should have added the link:

https://www.theineosforum.com/post/an-longer-test-drive-12362280?highlight=romania&pid=1332713761  

 

[Spjnr]

Theyll almost certainly be the same axles, with the wiring run in for an E locker. 

In my opinion for the price, the "rough pack" is really worth getting.

Ko2 tires and front and rear lockers for £1680, you'd be paying way more than that to install front and rear air lockers alone, let alone a £1000 set of tires in todays market.

If your never going to run lockers, then save the money and don't tick it, but don't think installing them aftermarket will be cheaper.

id say factory lockers will add residual value to the vehicle as well. 

 

[grenadierguy]

Well said @Spjnr!

 

[Krabby]

I poked through with a search here but couldn't find any updates on the axle specs. Is there more info out there I overlooked? Did I miss something?

 

[stickshifter]

I poked through with a search here but couldn't find any updates on the axle specs. Is there more info out there I overlooked? Did I miss something?

No, I don't think you've missed anything. Its been hard (impossible?) to get axle specs.

Not too many folk here in the U.S. are familiar with Carraro axles, and we've been trying to get info, so we know how they stack-up to products that we do know (Dana 44, Dana 60, etc.). From photos, we know that they are 6-lug axles, but it is hard to know exactly what that means in terms of axle rating. Here in North America, the Dana 60 and its equivalents from Ford, etc. (what we sometimes call "one-ton" axles), are all 8-lug, but maybe the Carraro has equivalent strength with 6 lugs? We don't know because we haven't gotten specs on them.

We do know that the Carraro axles in the Grenadier are semi-float, not full-float axles (like the Dana 60). That seems like a major oversight by Ineos - given (1) the weight of the Grenadier (the gas-version is 5,875 pounds, and the diesel is over 6,000 pounds - almost as heavy as a Ford F250 in its lighter trims), (2) the excellent payload of the Grenadier (almost 2,000 pounds). and (3) the goal of durability and ease of field-maintenance. See these articles for a comparison of semi-float and full-float rear axles:

Full-Floating Vs. Semi-Floating - Axle Tech

There are several basic axle varieties used in 4WDs, and each has some specific design pros and cons. There are front steering axles and rear fixed axles. Axle

www.motortrend.com

5 Benefits of a Full Floating Axle (All You Need To Know)

If you’ve looked into some of the big differences in vehicles, you may have come across the term “full floating axle”. But without further research, it’s hard to know what

weldingtroop.com

If I had to guess, I would guess that the Carraro axles are somewhere between a Dana 44 and a Dana 60 in terms of strength - but we don't know without seeing the specs. There is other info I think people would like to know, such as gear compatibility with known aftermarket products, compatibility with aftermarket lockers (ARB, etc.), are they high pinion or low pinion (usually you can tell from photos, but the photos I've seen don't seem definitive, but maybe someone else can chime-in here), etc.

I'm not suggesting the Carraro axles are bad axles, I'd just like to see some specs. As the vehicles are in production, this seems reasonable.

 

[Krabby]

Thanks for the article links - I had heard the terms but had no idea. The one really appealing thing about the full floater design is that even with a broken axle the wheel in question can still spin. It wouldn't obviously provide drive, but it wouldn't leave you stranded either.

 

[stickshifter]

Yeah, but the inherent strength of a full-float axle is also really important for an overland rig that is (1) heavy to begin with, (2) carrying a heavy payload, and (3) is traveling in remote locations. From the Motortrend article:

"For a full-floating system, the axle shaft only serves to transmit the rotational torque from the differential out to the wheel. It does not carry the weight of the vehicle as a semi-floater does. On a full floater, a spindle is attached to the outer end of the axle housing. The wheel hub is mounted on this spindle and rides on tapered roller bearings. It is this assembly that carries the vehicle weight. As such, a full-floating axle system is considerably stronger than an equivalently sized semi-floating system."

In practice, this means that the axle in a semi float is under strain if the vehicle is heavily loaded, whereas with a full float, all the weight is on the axle housing - not the axle.

 

[DCPU]

are they high pinion or low pinion (usually you can tell from photos, but the photos I've seen don't seem definitive, but maybe someone else can chime-in here), etc.

Rear low, front high?

 

[stickshifter]

Rear low, front high?
View attachment 7799355

It’s hard to tell, right? Usually the rear is obvious, based on where the drive shaft enters the diff housing. For the rear, low pinion has advantage of strength, high pinion has advantage of better ground clearance.

 

[CountyV8]

This may help the Carraro with diff locks have been stated to be different to the ones without, the Austrian test driver said they couldn't be swapped over . Carraro make axles for Case and New Holland tractors. I also think the rough pack deal is good you get switches K02s etc all with the factory warranty .

 

[Krabby]

It really does seem like a no-brainer to get the lockers from the factory. Even if the cost of doing it yourself saved some money, we don't know if the non-locked axles can handle lockers and if they can, how long until something from ARB, etc. is going to be available. I can only speak about the States, but Danas are so common and well established here that anything you could/would want to do can basically be done off the shelf today.

 

[DCPU]

It’s hard to tell, right? Usually the rear is obvious, based on where the drive shaft enters the diff housing. For the rear, low pinion has advantage of strength, high pinion has advantage of better ground clearance.

It looks clear from this angle...:

 

[CountyV8]

Little more axle action

 

[Krabby]

Looks much beefier from that angle.

 

[stickshifter]

It looks clear from this angle...:
View attachment 7799362

Yes, that is more clear - thanks! So the rear is low pinion, which makes sense given the intended use of the Grenadier (over lander, not rock crawler).

You are a magician in terms of getting photos!

 

[DCPU]

This may help the Carraro with diff locks have been stated to be different to the ones without, the Austrian test driver said they couldn't be swapped over .

I'd be happier if someone explained why that was the case ~ there's nothing apparent in the differential housing itself that looks to explain why the two aren't interchangeable?

 

[stickshifter]

Thanks for the article links - I had heard the terms but had no idea. The one really appealing thing about the full floater design is that even with a broken axle the wheel in question can still spin. It wouldn't obviously provide drive, but it wouldn't leave you stranded either.

After you bend an axle-housing in mid-winter, deep in the back-country, you get passionate about axles!

 

[DCPU]

Looks much beefier from that angle.

Indeed.