On the Road - Initial Thoughts

[Clark Kent]

'Play in the steering'is being cited a fair bit in reference to the Grenadier. I'm not sure 'play' is the term I would use to describe the lack of response felt around the centre position. I would say there is near zero play in the steering on my own vehicle but that doesn't mean it's a responsive system to use. Correctly adjusted, a power assisted recirculating ball steering box has internal preload which is the opposite of play. Perhaps what is being described as play is a dead zone in the steering where there is little to no response felt at the road wheels after turning the steering wheel a small amount. This is an artifact of recirculating ball steering over a live axle. Quite a bit of motion is taken up in the conversion of rotary input of the steering wheel plus linkage movement due to travel of the suspension before a linear output is produced at the steering knuckles. Rack and pinion steering (on IFS vehicles) is a far more responsive system with fewer components.
Not saying there aren't Grenadiers on the road with poorly adjusted or even faulty steering boxes, but 'play', also known as 'slop' or 'backlash', would be exceptional.

 

[DaveB]

I took a demo car for a drive today - and it had at least 1 inch of play either side of center before you could feel the steering take effect.
What seems to be the general consensus on this?

Just ignore it and drive the vehicle.
If you get fixated on it then it will worry you.

 

[Farglebah]

Just ignore it and drive the vehicle.
If you get fixated on it then it will worry you.

Very true. After steering talk about the Grenadier I paid a little attention to my RX8 - a car unanimously applauded, by motoring journalists, for its steering. And it is great but it tramlines and doesn’t have much self-centering!

I worried for a moment… then bounced it off the 9,000rpm rev limiter and was happy again.

 

[Cheshire cat]

I took a demo car for a drive today - and it had at least 1 inch of play either side of center before you could feel the steering take effect.
What seems to be the general consensus on this?

I would say that wasn’t far off the mark. Certainly a lot less than my Td5 Defender.
I would put the play on my Grenadier at a bit less than 1” either side of center. As Dave B said. Don’t think about it, just enjoy it.

 

[Tazzieman]

Look at it this way - it's 2 inches or more on a series Landy , yet somehow we seem to survive

 

[Wayneos]

I took a demo car for a drive today - and it had at least 1 inch of play either side of center before you could feel the steering take effect.
What seems to be the general consensus on this?

I took one out for a spin from the Brighton agent in Melbourne on Friday afternoon. Once I had the first few corners down I didn't think about the steering after that. I was also trying not to prang it in peak hour traffic so my attention wasn't entirely on the Gren's steering or handling, but I loved it!

 

[holdmybeer]

I assume (?) a small dead zone of steering won't matter at all for rough road use. i.e. the steering wheel may be less inclined to whip back and forth in your hands as the tires find their line in the trail? Whether this is "on purpose" or simply the reality of recirculating ball steering over beam axles ... I don't know. I don't know a ton about steering system design. But I do know my Honda's responsive and sensitive steering is lovely in a parking lot and it turns into hot spastic garbage on a rough trail. Horses for courses.

 

[Davman]

I took one out for a spin from the Brighton agent in Melbourne on Friday afternoon. Once I had the first few corners down I didn't think about the steering after that. I was also trying not to prang it in peak hour traffic so my attention wasn't entirely on the Gren's steering or handling, but I loved it!

Thanks for everyone’s replies.
I was wanting to find out whether there is any difference - perceived or otherwise - in the difference between how cars are setup.
How many inches either side of centre do you have to turn the wheel, before you feel the steering loading up?
Obviously there appears to be some perceived variances already.

 

[James]

I’m in the camp that has no play, or vagueness, but the steering feel is definitely unlike most other vehicles, and takes a while to adjust to. I think it is actually very precise, but has ‘vicsosity’, or a feeling of drag around centre that is maybe what can feel like play to some. Combined with tall suspension and tyres… the effect is more pronounced.
but i have had older cars with actual play, and that’s a very different thing.
It’s just a part of driving this car that is its character. After a few days it becomes something I still notice, but am comfortable with. I did jump into a sportscar yesterday, with great steering, and it feels even better than it did before the grenadier- the ineos is so good it makes all my other cars more fun too!

 

[Hannes01]

have you ever driven a CJ7?
the TÜV engineer said the steering had something to do with boating

 

[James]

have you ever driven a CJ7?
the TÜV engineer said the steering had something to do with boating

No, but I had a lovely old peugeot which was very maritime. Lovely light steering, but you’d ‘make a request’ with the tiller, and wait and see if the winds/camber would grant it or not.... steering was actually tight, but such long springs and winding old roads, it was like a peaceful sail…

 

[Tom D]

Having done 2500 miles in a grenadier now I can say with confidence that the steering is excellent for a vehicle of this type. I have not had any issues with positioning the vehicle on the road either on tight mountain roads or at 80 mph in the fast lane. It doesn’t feel like a Ferrari but how could it? Just the flex in the tall tyres is enough to give a feeling of vagueness let alone all the other components.
I am genuinely surprised that people have complained about this.

 

[KDJDGrenadier]

Having done 2500 miles in a grenadier now I can say with confidence that the steering is excellent for a vehicle of this type. I have not had any issues with positioning the vehicle on the road either on tight mountain roads or at 80 mph in the fast lane. It doesn’t feel like a Ferrari but how could it? Just the flex in the tall tyres is enough to give a feeling of vagueness let alone all the other components.
I am genuinely surprised that people have complained about this.

Tom D i totally agree with you. The steering is great and when you set it into a corner it just goes. I also do not understand peoples expectations from a 3 ton 4wd with tall tyres.

 

[klarie]

Exactly - this is a 3 ton rig, beam axles hence recirculating ball steering. What is expected steering like a formula 1 race car? Grenadier is not a designed / constructed to become a mall crawler.

 

[DCPU]

I also do not understand peoples expectations from a 3 ton 4wd with tall tyres.

Self centering steering?

 

[Jean Mercier]

I love the steering. Only the first day I had to "get used to it", but I also had to get used to drive a car with an automatic gearbox

Now, when I take the car of my wife (manual gearbox) to go to the "mall", I have to get used to shifting gears myself again
I wanted to take off to Hungary tomorrow (visiting my son, wife and baby girl) and enjoy the car again, but I will probably postpone it again: my wife "self tested" positive on Corona this morning, shit.

 

[Tom D]

To be honest I don't even recall having to get used to it. Maybe I did, if so it didn’t take more than a couple of corners.

 

[Rab]

The problem I have is when I now go to drive something else.
I got into the war departments Fiesta the other day and nearly put it over the hedge at the first corner. To be fair it does drive like a go kart.

 

[Logsplitter]

The problem I have is when I now go to drive something else.
I got into the war departments Fiesta the other day and nearly put it over the hedge at the first corner. To be fair it does drive like a go kart.

Great term “ the war department “ . I often answer the phone with “war offfice how can I help “

 

[DaBull]

I love the steering. Only the first day I had to "get used to it", but I also had to get used to drive a car with an automatic gearbox

Now, when I take the car of my wife (manual gearbox) to go to the "mall", I have to get used to shifting gears myself again
I wanted to take off to Hungary tomorrow (visiting my son, wife and baby girl) and enjoy the car again, but I will probably postpone it again: my wife "self tested" positive on Corona this morning, shit.

Hi Jean, Hoping your wife has a speedy recovery. DaBull