None commercial version of the station wagon?

[cmcwilliam]

Hello all,

I just received the email about the increase in UK tax and was surprised to see it say that I have ordered a commercial vehicle! News to me...

I ordered an age ago and at the time, the 5 seater station wagon was listed as a domestic vehicle - not a commercial one (I can't use the tax break and I do want the leg room and the 70 mph.)

I see they have changed that now and if you want a domestic vehicle you have to order the fancy versions for £££ extra. So it seems that IA may have "recategorised" my car (from domestic to commercial) without telling me!

I wondered if others are in the same situation?

Craig

 

[Tom D]

Hello all,

I just received the email about the increase in UK tax and was surprised to see it say that I have ordered a commercial vehicle! News to me...

I ordered an age ago and at the time, the 5 seater station wagon was listed as a domestic vehicle - not a commercial one (I can't use the tax break and I do want the leg room and the 70 mph.)

I see they have changed that now and if you want a domestic vehicle you have to order the fancy versions for £££ extra. So it seems that IA may have "recategorised" my car (from domestic to commercial) without telling me!

I wondered if others are in the same situation?

Craig

I’m fairly sure that the ‘station wagon‘ was always a commercial. It was called a 5 seat utility wagon at one point..

 

[Jeremy996]

I deliberately ordered the "commercial 5 seat station wagon"; the lower initial road tax was attractive and the altered speed limits matter little to me. The basic model has always been "N1". I'm not happy with too much luxury.

 

[prjenns]

Hello all,

I just received the email about the increase in UK tax and was surprised to see it say that I have ordered a commercial vehicle! News to me...

I ordered an age ago and at the time, the 5 seater station wagon was listed as a domestic vehicle - not a commercial one (I can't use the tax break and I do want the leg room and the 70 mph.)

I see they have changed that now and if you want a domestic vehicle you have to order the fancy versions for £££ extra. So it seems that IA may have "recategorised" my car (from domestic to commercial) without telling me!

I wondered if others are in the same situation?

Craig

I had the same issue as I (wrongly?) assumed the station wagon was just a base domestic version when I ordered, as up to then that was how it was billed! It only came to light for me when I had an email about VAT recovery last year and I finally got to sit in one at the September "Game Show" and saw the difference in the rear seating.
We are not alone as many others have raised the same point over the last few months. Sadly it forced me to give up my May 22 order and re-order in December when I found out that I couldn't just change the model pre-contract (although I did argue for and win the original pricing). I then went to the back of the queue - which of course due to the late rollout is now even later. I'm still not sure whether I will actually wait for mine as my plans for it are so messed up.

 

[Eric]

Hello all,

I just received the email about the increase in UK tax and was surprised to see it say that I have ordered a commercial vehicle! News to me...

I ordered an age ago and at the time, the 5 seater station wagon was listed as a domestic vehicle - not a commercial one (I can't use the tax break and I do want the leg room and the 70 mph.)

I see they have changed that now and if you want a domestic vehicle you have to order the fancy versions for £££ extra. So it seems that IA may have "recategorised" my car (from domestic to commercial) without telling me!

I wondered if others are in the same situation?

Craig

Sorry I'm confused, I don't understand "domestic" They are classed M1 and N1. I thought that M1 are only the Fieldmaster and Trialmaster all other models are N1 commercial. Including the 5 seater station wagon and I thought that was always the case.

 

[prjenns]

Sorry I'm confused, I don't understand "domestic" They are classed M1 and N1. I thought that M1 are only the Fieldmaster and Trialmaster all other models are N1 commercial. Including the 5 seater station wagon and I thought that was always the case.

I think clarity around M1/N1 only came through after May 22. I looked back at my original SW configuration and it is not stated anywhere. Originally the Ineos staff on the drive days I went to talked about a utility model, base model and Belstaff models with no mention of N1/M1 and it was assumed that the utility would be a 2/5 door N1. This is why they honoured the original pricing for me when I re-ordered.

 

[DaveB]

In Australia the Utility Wagon is only available as a two seat, but is available in Belstaff or basic versions.
The Station Wagon is a 5 seat and is also available in both.
We don't have a commercial version as any vehicle can be registered as commercial.

 

[cmcwilliam]

I think clarity around M1/N1 only came through after May 22. I looked back at my original SW configuration and it is not stated anywhere. Originally the Ineos staff on the drive days I went to talked about a utility model, base model and Belstaff models with no mention of N1/M1 and it was assumed that the utility would be a 2/5 door N1. This is why they honoured the original pricing for me when I re-ordered.

I ordered in May and didn't see anything about this distinction other than for the two seater?

Am assuming that it would be possible to register any Grenadier as M1 (or "domestic" as I have called it) - as presumably the only difference is the road tax/VAT treatment (as its fine to have the larger loading area in M1 if not the reverse)?

 

[Eric]

I ordered in May and didn't see anything about this distinction other than for the two seater?

Am assuming that it would be possible to register any Grenadier as M1 (or "domestic" as I have called it) - as presumably the only difference is the road tax/VAT treatment (as its fine to have the larger loading area in M1 if not the reverse)?

My understanding is a Fieldmaster and Trialmaster only will be registered as a M1 passenger vehicle all other vehicles will be registered as a N1 commercial vehicle

 

[prjenns]

I ordered in May and didn't see anything about this distinction other than for the two seater?

Am assuming that it would be possible to register any Grenadier as M1 (or "domestic" as I have called it) - as presumably the only difference is the road tax/VAT treatment (as its fine to have the larger loading area in M1 if not the reverse)?

If you are not bothered by the rear seats positioning and speed restrictions then you can keep the N1 classification and make the RFL savings.......

 

[cmcwilliam]

My understanding is a Fieldmaster and Trialmaster only will be registered as a M1 passenger vehicle all other vehicles will be registered as a N1 commercial vehicle

My issue is that it seems unfair to decide that after a customer has ordered a non-commercial vehicle (and to not tell them).

 

[cmcwilliam]

If you are not bothered by the rear seats positioning and speed restrictions then you can keep the N1 classification and make the RFL savings.......

Sadly those are two things I do want.

I spec’d up a regular station wagon with smooth pack etc as this allowed you to get a normal (ie M1) vehicle with the solid rear panels and steel wheels.

 

[ECrider]

you should be able to move the seats back somehow, fairly confident there will be a work around. The speed thing in my mind is a non-issue, if I get caught topping out then it's a fair cop but I reckon the chances are minimal. But that's how I see it. Don't expect us to have the same views.

 

[Pipm4000]

I have read Ineos can only bring 6000 vehicles a year to the UK whilst avoiding emissions rules and 4300 of those have to be N1. That leaves only 1700 M1 vehicles a year so I assume they want to maximise the profits on the M1’s. It’s also clear they can’t leave the decision on category to the customer.

 

[DCPU]

My issue is that it seems unfair to decide that after a customer has ordered a non-commercial vehicle (and to not tell them).

I'm fairly certain that it was all decided before you ordered, but you have just missed the signposting. It's easily done if you are not aware of what M1 and N1 signify and the differences between them.

So unfair as it is, it was your mistake but one that Ineos could have been better at helping you avoid.

I hope you can resolve with them direct.

 

[Tom D]

RE The speed limit thing, I have been driving N1 vehicles for the last 20 years and only got a speeding fine a couple of months ago. It was in a 60 limit that had recently changed to 40. I was doing 55.. it was a 40 limit for all vehicles , not just mine. You can still do 70 on the motorway in an N1 anyway. The only difference is 50 instead or 60 on A roads. And like I say neither I nor anyone I know has been nicked for that.. I’d just move the rear seats back and enjoy the cheaper tax..

 

[Scotsitalian]

Hello all,

I just received the email about the increase in UK tax and was surprised to see it say that I have ordered a commercial vehicle! News to me...

I ordered an age ago and at the time, the 5 seater station wagon was listed as a domestic vehicle - not a commercial one (I can't use the tax break and I do want the leg room and the 70 mph.)

I see they have changed that now and if you want a domestic vehicle you have to order the fancy versions for £££ extra. So it seems that IA may have "recategorised" my car (from domestic to commercial) without telling me!

I wondered if others are in the same situation?

Craig

Hi Craig,
I am in the same boat, I eventually pressed the order button on my 5 door station wagon in May 23 but at no time have Ines told me the specification was classed as commercial. I had configured mine months ago and was totally unaware of the M1/N1 dilemm.
my vehicle is now in production but I will cancel the order next week irrespective asi cannot put it through my business and I really don’t want a commercial vehicle nor pay £10k extra for a passenger model!
When I spoke to the assistance line, they admitted even now in July 2023 the website is confusing and unclear and they have had significant order changes!
anyone else in the same boat?

 

[Scotsitalian]

RE The speed limit thing, I have been driving N1 vehicles for the last 20 years and only got a speeding fine a couple of months ago. It was in a 60 limit that had recently changed to 40. I was doing 55.. it was a 40 limit for all vehicles , not just mine. You can still do 70 on the motorway in an N1 anyway. The only difference is 50 instead or 60 on A roads. And like I say neither I nor anyone I know has been nicked for that.. I’d just move the rear seats back and enjoy the cheaper tax..

I agree with you Tom, I’ve had a VW Amarok with DVLA N1 tax class for 10 years and have driven it like a normal car and never been fined nor cautioned despite driving it around the A9 which is notorious for average speed cameras!

 

[froggy]

I have no doubt that prices will be going up but road tax differences between the M1 & N1 variants are also a big issue here in the UK.

At current prices, over the first 6 years the M1 variant will cost £4,965 to tax. That's £3,195 more than the N1 variant.

The M1 gets cheaper to tax from then on; but it will take over 30 years of ownership to recover the difference paid in those first years!

Any future changes in the rate of tax are more likely to hit the M1 side harder. As they have already done. They are the real target that people don't have much sympathy for. N1 users can hide in the tall grass with the other commercial users who are seen as more of a necessary evil than outright excess.

Every country is different so I have some sympathy with Ineos. I have a 2 seat n1 Trialmaster in France with lots of extras I could have had 5 seats but if I wanted windows and more leg room it would have added 50% !! As it is there was no eco tax.

 

[lightning]

lt's a bit of a nightmare in the UK

The DVLA see the Grenadier as "Commercial" but HMRC don't.

So as a limited company if l
buy the Grenadier 2-seat "Commercial" l benefit from lower road tax and also exempt from the high initial road tax of £2,500 for vehicles over £40,000

However due to HMRC not recognising it as a Commercial Vehicle l can't put it through my business, so with the latest price increase the cheapest Grenadier is £65,000
Add a few essentials such as a tow bar and it's knocking of the door of £70,000

All l could do would be to charge the business mileage at 45p per mile.

In contrast my Defender Commercial cost £55,000 including VAT with a few extras (base price £51,500)
And even though l can't claim the VAT back as l am not VAT registered it's still effectively costing me £40,000 after claiming tax back which is £30,000 less than a Grenadier.
BIK is £700 per year as it's classed as a van.

This is really sad because l love the Grenadier and was looking to buy one this year while my Defender is still worth what l paid for it.

But at £70,000 it's out of the question. The Grenadier l configured has risen £15,000 since l looked at it late last year. At the price of £55,000 l might have been prepared to pay the extra to get a Grenadier.