New prices update (09 Nov 2022)

[DaveB]

Yes, it's a bitter pill to swallow, if you were willing to stump up the additional money for the 2nd payment. I'm in the same position regarding the double cab, which initially was supposed to be only a little behind the station wagon but seems to have drifted further behind as time has moved on.

Ineos have perhaps lost an opportunity to have a grateful cohort of early adoptors in the US.

I've not looked at the Denali EV, but the Rivian looks an intriguing proposition. If it gets over to the UK, I might be having a look at it.

I thought the double cab was always going to be at least 18 months behind the SW?

 

[froggy]

Phew

 

[CountryFrench]

I realize that pricing hasn't been release for the US, however, it is disappointing that there was an increase before we were even given the chance to order... I get it... I really do... but is still stinks.

Am I still going to purchase?!? Of course . But was hoping to tell all of my jeep junkie friends that "its better and it was the same price!" ... oh well...

Yes, before we even can fully place deposit the price goes up and although as someone said, it’s really not an increase for the US, in my mind, IT IS!!

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I realize that pricing hasn't been release for the US, however, it is disappointing that there was an increase before we were even given the chance to order... I get it... I really do... but is still stinks.

Am I still going to purchase?!? Of course . But was hoping to tell all of my jeep junkie friends that "its better and it was the same price!" ... oh well...

The vehicle won't be here till late 2023; that's a lifetime in the era of 10%+ inflation.

Odds are it will still be the same price as the Jeep. They are paying more for their bearings and widgets, just like Ineos, after all.

 

[DCPU]

I thought the double cab was always going to be at least 18 months behind the SW?

No, at the beginning of the Project both variants were shown, and the double cab was to be just behind the wagon.

"This is our first look at the exterior design, but there’s no peeking at the interior yet and technical details are limited. What we do know is it’s a five-seater (a double-cab pick-up version will go into production around the same time, in late 2021)".

Here's your first look at the Ineos Grenadier off-roader

Already missing the old Defender? Meet the 'working field dog' that aims to replace it

www.topgear.com

The double cab variant disappeared from view in late 2021 and we were supposed to be seeing a lot more of it in early 2022 according to Dirk Heilmann.
"Ineos has yet to confirm a specific launch date for the second Grenadier variant but has previously said it will come "soon after" the arrival of the SUV. "

Ineos Grenadier pick-up: commercial 4x4 hits public roads | Autocar

Open-backed version of Grenadier will take on Toyota Hilux in fearsome pick-up segment

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[DCPU]

The vehicle won't be here till late 2023; that's a lifetime in the era of 10%+ inflation.

Exactly ~ who wants cash right now, or to borrow that meme:

 

[joejet]

I have 2 on order, I ordered the 2nd one the other day not sure which spec to keep first build date is feb-march so plenty of time.

 

[Deleted User Account.]

The vehicle won't be here till late 2023; that's a lifetime in the era of 10%+ inflation.

Odds are it will still be the same price as the Jeep. They are paying more for their bearings and widgets, just like Ineos, after all.

It hasn't stopped other companies from setting pricing and taking preorders into 2024. I value companies that commit to a price when I commit to waiting for them AND pay a fee. Rivian attempted this and then backtracked, so I'm aware that ineos may not want to get out over their skis with pricing.

I'll stick around and see if they will do anything to reward the early adopters stateside (who probably all ordered the gas powered version instead of diesel like they probably would have preferred). If the issue isn't addressed then the only grenadier I'll own is the scale model on my desk.

 

[travelerBT]

The vehicle won't be here till late 2023; that's a lifetime in the era of 10%+ inflation.

Odds are it will still be the same price as the Jeep. They are paying more for their bearings and widgets, just like Ineos, after all.

There is a Rubicon Gladiator soft top sitting on the lot down the street from me right now @$65k ... with inflation and increases etc, you are probably spot on... we will see!

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

It hasn't stopped other companies from setting pricing and taking preorders into 2024. I value companies that commit to a price when I commit to waiting for them AND pay a fee. Rivian attempted this and then backtracked, so I'm aware that ineos may not want to get out over their skis with pricing.

I'll stick around and see if they will do anything to reward the early adopters stateside (who probably all ordered the gas powered version instead of diesel like they probably would have preferred). If the issue isn't addressed then the only grenadier I'll own is the scale model on my desk.

I think you hit on the key thing there, mgohillbilly -- I value companies that commit to a price too, but do you really think those orders going into 2024 are going to stay at that price? Already Ford has been going back and upcharging customers, as has Rivian which you mentioned. Jeep has been doing the same from what I've been told. Folks who ordered vehicles months ago are now being dinged to pay more, because every manufacturer is raising prices right now. With established manufacturers, they are using covers like "Oh well you ordered for model year '22, but due to supply chain issues, we have to move you to model year '23, and that's going to be $XX,XXX more...". As a new company, Ineos doesn't have that cover - and even if they did, I find that to be poor form.

It's a classic sales tactic often employed by slick folks selling time-shares -- commit to price X now, as that's the big decision, then in a few months time it'll be X+y%, but you've already decided to spend X so you're already "on the hook", past the biggest decision-making hurdle, and in that situation more than enough folks stay on that hook to account for the ones who walk from the deal.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love it if Ineos would say "$75k CDN for all current reservation holders" and stick to it for the next year or so. But I can't see how any business can reasonably do that today, when hyperinflation seems almost as likely as stability (And check out the German economy in the 1920s/1930s to get a sense of how hyperinflation would make it impossible to honour prices!)

I'd rather they stay uncommitted on the price until they are able to provide price certainty through to delivery, with no coming back to me a month later asking for more cash to keep my reservation.

 

[Shaky]

I am happy that I won’t be affected by the price increase, but disappointed for the guys who will get caught up thin the rise. Anyone in the UK can’t call foul as they had the chance but the US didn’t get a choice.

As has been pointed out, there are many car manufacturers who are doing this, including JLR so I hear. To think I will effectively be driving round in a £75k vehicle which may well be able to command more than that on resale is a little unnerving for me.

IA have done the right thing here and rewarded those who have onboarded early doors and been patient-ish.

The US guys have a shed load more choice on vehicles like this than we have in Europe. So if the price increase is too much there is plenty of alternate choices, some of which look great imo.

 

[DaveB]

Based on the new pricing my config has gone up from AUD$121K to AUD$134K on road

 

[Deleted User Account.]

I think you hit on the key thing there, mgohillbilly -- I value companies that commit to a price too, but do you really think those orders going into 2024 are going to stay at that price? Already Ford has been going back and upcharging customers, as has Rivian which you mentioned. Jeep has been doing the same from what I've been told. Folks who ordered vehicles months ago are now being dinged to pay more, because every manufacturer is raising prices right now. With established manufacturers, they are using covers like "Oh well you ordered for model year '22, but due to supply chain issues, we have to move you to model year '23, and that's going to be $XX,XXX more...". As a new company, Ineos doesn't have that cover - and even if they did, I find that to be poor form.

It's a classic sales tactic often employed by slick folks selling time-shares -- commit to price X now, as that's the big decision, then in a few months time it'll be X+y%, but you've already decided to spend X so you're already "on the hook", past the biggest decision-making hurdle, and in that situation more than enough folks stay on that hook to account for the ones who walk from the deal.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love it if Ineos would say "$75k CDN for all current reservation holders" and stick to it for the next year or so. But I can't see how any business can reasonably do that today, when hyperinflation seems almost as likely as stability (And check out the German economy in the 1920s/1930s to get a sense of how hyperinflation would make it impossible to honour prices!)

I'd rather they stay uncommitted on the price until they are able to provide price certainty through to delivery, with no coming back to me a month later asking for more cash to keep my reservation.if

I'd have zero issues with ineos adjusting the price any way they want if they hadn't already solicited hundreds of dollars from me for a reservation. That's distasteful. There are other manufacturers who put out waitlists if they don't won't to address pricing or take official preorders. Without the benefit of a price reservation, all of us in the states are just paying for the privilege to wait in line.

 

[Davman]

Based on the new pricing my config has gone up from AUD$121K to AUD$134K on road

Yeah around the $12,500 mark sounds about right depending on your options.

 

[Shaky]

Mgohillbilly;

Whilst you are right, the money you paid is refundable, so basically you have lost the interest on your reservation money. A free coffee at the nearest IG showroom should make that difference up.

I can understand you and everyone else are disappointed and pi**ed and I would be too. However there are plenty of other companies doing it to people who have been waiting for other manufacturers to deliver current models for much longer.

Some you win some you lose I’m afraid, but before you berate me, I missed out on being protected on a pension scheme by a couple of months based on age, which in real terms means I lost about £40K, now that’s losing !!!!

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I'd have zero issues with ineos adjusting the price any way they want if they hadn't already solicited hundreds of dollars from me for a reservation. That's distasteful. There are other manufacturers who put out waitlists if they don't won't to address pricing or take official preorders. Without the benefit of a price reservation, all of us in the states are just paying for the privilege to wait in line.

"Paying for the priviledge to wait in line" is exactly what that $500 bucks was for, no? And your $500 reservation fully refundable? They have solicited that to confirm interest, which every new model vehicle does these days from the Cyber Truck pipedream to the new Bronco, but right now, I am not committed to buying anything, and they are not committed to selling me anything at any price, full stop. That was the transparent deal when I made the reservation.

When they announce the price, if I don't like it, I get all my money back and this (mis)adventure has literally cost me nothing, save for a pittance in interest that I might have gotten from that money sitting in the bank which by my math will be less than the value of a cup of coffee by the time they start taking actual orders. And, based on how they are treating Australian and European buyers, they are honouring contract pricing for those who have already paid their deposit, even if they have yet to sign a sales contract.

How is the situation with Ineos any different from the $100 that Ford charged before locking in prices for the Bronco, which then routinely were selling for $30k+ more than the advertised price? Or the $1500 that Rivian wants for their "confirmed price" that then goes up after the fact? These are companies that are actually behaving in the manner you describe -- changing price after soliciting dollars for a deal. Ineos appears to be doing the opposite, which I reckon is a good thing.

Edit: Shaky was typing same time as me, but I also wonder -- I'm genuinely curious what other manufacturers have done waitlists without some kind of fee? And to be clear, there's a big difference between "Sign up if you are interested in buying one" and "sign up to get an e-mail for updates" -- I don't know of any manufacturer in 2022 who will do the former without some kind of deposit, and a free e-mail like the latter is not a serious waitlist at all.

 

[DCPU]

3, When now going onto the website to order your car you will see a total price including VAT and OTR costs making this much clearer and not having an increase when you go to checkout.

Except the rolled in OTR costs are not detailed anywhere before checkout; and I'm uncertain if they are after?

Did you ever get any response on the OTR cost headings and what they actually are? The final contract wording is even more confusing, is there VAT on VAT:

 

[Deleted User Account.]

To each their own -- but isn't your $500 reservation fully refundable? They have solicited that to confirm interest, which every new model vehicle does these days from the Cyber Truck pipedream to the new Bronco, but right now, I am not committed to buying anything, and they are not committed to selling me anything at any price, full stop. That was the transparent deal when I made the reservation.

When they announce the price, if I don't like it, I get all my money back and this (mis)adventure has literally cost me nothing, save for a pittance in interest that I might have gotten from that money sitting in the bank which by my math will be less than the value of a cup of coffee by the time they start taking actual orders. And, based on how they are treating Australian and European buyers, they are honouring contract pricing for those who have already paid their deposit, even if they have yet to sign a sales contract.

How is the situation with Ineos any different from the $100 that Ford charged before locking in prices for the Bronco, which then routinely were selling for $30k+ more than the advertised price? Or the $1500 that Rivian wants for their "confirmed price" that then goes up after the fact? These are companies that are actually behaving in the manner you describe -- changing price after soliciting dollars for a deal. Ineos appears to be doing the opposite, which I reckon is a good thing.

Edit: Shaky was typing same time as me, but I also wonder -- I'm genuinely curious what other manufacturers have done waitlists without some kind of fee? And to be clear, there's a big difference between "Sign up if you are interested in buying one" and "sign up to get an e-mail for updates" -- I don't know of any manufacturer in 2022 who will do the former without some kind of deposit, and a free e-mail like the latter is not a serious waitlist at all

Rivian price has been locked in since before the price increase in March. I'm aware it's a refundable deposit just like ineos should be aware that every refunded deposit is a lost sale.

"Paying for the priviledge to wait in line" is exactly what that $500 bucks was for, no? And your $500 reservation fully refundable? They have solicited that to confirm interest, which every new model vehicle does these days from the Cyber Truck pipedream to the new Bronco, but right now, I am not committed to buying anything, and they are not committed to selling me anything at any price, full stop. That was the transparent deal when I made the reservation.

When they announce the price, if I don't like it, I get all my money back and this (mis)adventure has literally cost me nothing, save for a pittance in interest that I might have gotten from that money sitting in the bank which by my math will be less than the value of a cup of coffee by the time they start taking actual orders. And, based on how they are treating Australian and European buyers, they are honouring contract pricing for those who have already paid their deposit, even if they have yet to sign a sales contract.

How is the situation with Ineos any different from the $100 that Ford charged before locking in prices for the Bronco, which then routinely were selling for $30k+ more than the advertised price? Or the $1500 that Rivian wants for their "confirmed price" that then goes up after the fact? These are companies that are actually behaving in the manner you describe -- changing price after soliciting dollars for a deal. Ineos appears to be doing the opposite, which I reckon is a good thing.

Edit: Shaky was typing same time as me, but I also wonder -- I'm genuinely curious what other manufacturers have done waitlists without some kind of fee? And to be clear, there's a big difference between "Sign up if you are interested in buying one" and "sign up to get an e-mail for updates" -- I don't know of any manufacturer in 2022 who will do the former without some kind of deposit, and a free e-mail like the latter is not a serious waitlist at all.

I'm not going to lose sleep over it. It simply makes me less enthusiastic about the grenadier. I'm aware the deposit is refundable just as ineos is aware that a refunded deposit is a lost sale.

Regarding other manufacturers, I don't buy Ford for that reason. There are dealers for gm that honor msrp and will not mark up. I'm close to just saying no to the grenadier until and unless a diesel is approved over here. I'm only posting about this because it's my hope that people with ineos see this and note that they have at least one prospective customer and fan that's disenchanted with things.

And to get technical, it's not just interest lost on the deposit, it's the purchasing power of it in an economy with high inflation had those funds not been invested to accrue interest. Ineos owes each of its American customers a bottle of scotch at this point.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Totally hear you mgohillbilly - that clarifies your perspective a bit for me, thank you for explaining. I was incorrectly interpreting your frustration/disappointment with Ineos as being exclusive to Ineos, but based on what you shared this is a principle you apply to the vehicle industry in general and I can for sure get behind that. Tell me what it costs, let me sign the contract, and stick to the price -- seems basic, but also seems to not be the practice in the modern auto industry very much!

I'm a fan of GM - I'm aware of a few standup GM dealers who would rather lose a few grand on today's sale for the sake of keeping you coming back every 5-10 years when you need a new truck and for the services in between though they are harder and harder to find these days!

And I won't say no to a bottle of Scotch but the real question is how many years old does it need to be to square this deal? I think 15 year is the minimum

 

[Deleted User Account.]

Totally hear you mgohillbilly - that clarifies your perspective a bit for me, thank you for explaining. I was incorrectly interpreting your frustration/disappointment with Ineos as being exclusive to Ineos, but based on what you shared this is a principle you apply to the vehicle industry in general and I can for sure get behind that. Tell me what it costs, let me sign the contract, and stick to the price -- seems basic, but also seems to not be the practice in the modern auto industry very much!

I'm a fan of GM - I'm aware of a few standup GM dealers who would rather lose a few grand on today's sale for the sake of keeping you coming back every 5-10 years when you need a new truck and for the services in between though they are harder and harder to find these days!

And I won't say no to a bottle of Scotch but the real question is how many years old does it need to be to square this deal? I think 15 year is the minimum

A nice cask strength Springbank or a Laphroaig never hurts.