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My Toaster is smarter

Don't mention the tariffs!!!!
I did once but I think I got away with it.
It is my duty to excise that word from conversation. Sorry if that is an imposition but is the custom these days. 🤓
 
Even the Europeans know our laws better than we do :P

But @holdmybeer is in Canada, they only have to wait 15 years for the good stuff that was never sold here
I'm learning again. Thanks for your hint. I have been looking into importing Land Rovers into the US. I knew there was a minimum import age for Canada as well and assumed it was also 25 years.
 
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I'm learning again. Thanks for your hint. I have been looking into importing Land Rovers into the US. I knew there was a minimum import age for Canada as well and assumed it was the same number of years.
Yup, broadly Canada works like this: Almost any vehicle from almost anywhere can be imported into Canada if it's at least 15 years old. Buses would be one exception I'm aware of. Then each province may impose its own inspection and insurance requirements. In BC, we aren't even subject to annual inspections (unless the vehicle has a Very Large gross weight rating or is registered for commercial or farming use).
 
You should buy a BMW mine works just fine changing for DST and just in general time zones from state to state. lol
Same with Land Rover, and it's a VERY biased outlook to bend over backwards to make excuses for a car's software that is worse than LRs
 
Same with Land Rover, and it's a VERY biased outlook to bend over backwards to make excuses for a car's software that is worse than LRs
LR have been at for slightly longer so if they struggle, and i believe other manufacturers have problems too, what hope did a new company have. Anyone who expected otherwise is away with the fairy's.
The start is not the issue it's what happens next and how it improves.
From what I read, early Tesla's weren't perfect and also rather expensive. I can't see the difference.
 
Noticed my G900 Wolfbox was an hour off today, went into menu, turned DST on, and I was good. However, please visit my endless rant thread on why the Wolfbox doesn’t automate DST, but my toaster alarm clock, espresso, pancake maker does! BTW DST is not a think. In all states, so I see the legitimacy of a manual setting, and wont get into the ethers of why it isn’t on GPS satellite smart time…

this is sarcasm, please refrain from flame🔥
 
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LR have been at for slightly longer so if they struggle, and i believe other manufacturers have problems too, what hope did a new company have. Anyone who expected otherwise is away with the fairy's.
The start is not the issue it's what happens next and how it improves.
From what I read, early Tesla's weren't perfect and also rather expensive. I can't see the difference.
Let me introduce you to Rivian. They just started delivering vehicles in 2022 I believe it was. It is one of the more software driven vehicles in the public market today. Is it flawless, not a chance, but it does a lot and does it all very competently. I didn't want my Gren to be a Rivian, I wanted analog. I'm fine with a CAN bus to a digital gauge cluster and such. I don't even mind a touch screen all that much. But what Ineos ended up doing was just hiding a bunch of poorly baked tech behind some physical buttons.
 
Let me introduce you to Rivian. They just started delivering vehicles in 2022 I believe it was. It is one of the more software driven vehicles in the public market today. Is it flawless, not a chance, but it does a lot and does it all very competently. I didn't want my Gren to be a Rivian, I wanted analog. I'm fine with a CAN bus to a digital gauge cluster and such. I don't even mind a touch screen all that much. But what Ineos ended up doing was just hiding a bunch of poorly baked tech behind some physical buttons.
No argument with that, except I hate touch screens, i cover mine at nightin dark areas.
I have stopped expecting perfection from anywhere in a hope of reducing my blood pressure and extending my life.
 
LR have been at for slightly longer so if they struggle, and i believe other manufacturers have problems too, what hope did a new company have. Anyone who expected otherwise is away with the fairy's.
The start is not the issue it's what happens next and how it improves.
From what I read, early Tesla's weren't perfect and also rather expensive. I can't see the difference.
As the other poster said, Rivian is also a new company and their vehicle has an immensely longer software/electronic feature set than the Grenadier, in a similar enough price point to compare the two and they released their first cars a year earlier. Even with a massively more complex system, their software is by all accounts pretty solid. Ineos fumbled the bag hard when it comes to the software they delivered to production, and as far as I can tell (ie lack of software updates) Ineos has not done anything to rectify the situation. Hell, they may not even care! No signals exist that indicate that they do.

I think it's a feature, not a bug that the Grenadier is simpler than modern EVs of course but the conceit of the Grenadier is that 'simpler' is also packaged with 'more robust'. Relatively stone-aged systems (at least in automotive tech terms) really should just work and I actually believe should be pretty close to flawless and the flaws that do exist should be fixed with alacrity.

I also think comparing Tesla in 2012-14 is a bit disingenuous. Thats a decade ago, that's a long time in software. If Ineos didn't get the hint that literally every other Automotive company did, including legacy and new makes that software is an integral part of modern automotive tech, then that's an indictment of Ineos, not a very good defense of Ineos. I'm a software engineer, 15 years experience across startups to FAANG companies, and from that perspective
it's actually impressive what the legacy auto makers have done with their software to bring it up to a competitive level with the new makes in the decades since Tesla pioneered software-forward car design.
 
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As the other poster said, Rivian is also a new company and their vehicle has an immensely longer software/electronic feature set than the Grenadier, in a similar enough price point to compare the two. Even with a massively more complex system, their software is by all accounts pretty solid. Ineos fumbled the bag hard when it comes to the software they delivered to production, and as far as I can tell (ie lack of software updates) Ineos has not done anything to rectify the situation. Hell, they may not even care! No signals exist that indicate that they do.

Also comparing Tesla circa 2012-14 to automotive software in the 2020s is a bit disingenuous. That's a long time ago in software years, the bar is significantly higher now in large part to the pioneering efforts of the early Tesla engineering teams.
You say comparing ineos to tesla of 2012 is not fair but i would have said ineos was an engineering manufacturer rather than technology therefore it's the physical robustness that matters whereas an electric car manufacturer (and buyers), care more about technology. Yes it's sad that there is technology (crap) hidden behind what look like real buttons but from what I have read, it is the only way a modern vehicle can be produced and probably why all vehicles are full of touch screens as the ones that aren't have 'fake' buttons so the thought is why bother when it's cheaper not to. They have given us buttons we can easily operate, their technology is not upto the same standard as a technology led company but I would be happier with the ineos for the long term for the quality of the actual vehicle.
When we compare by price we are missing the point and not comparing like with like, it just happens that they are all motor vehicles.
 
You say comparing ineos to tesla of 2012 is not fair but i would have said ineos was an engineering manufacturer rather than technology therefore it's the physical robustness that matters whereas an electric car manufacturer (and buyers), care more about technology. Yes it's sad that there is technology (crap) hidden behind what look like real buttons but from what I have read, it is the only way a modern vehicle can be produced and probably why all vehicles are full of touch screens as the ones that aren't have 'fake' buttons so the thought is why bother when it's cheaper not to. They have given us buttons we can easily operate, their technology is not upto the same standard as a technology led company but I would be happier with the ineos for the long term for the quality of the actual vehicle.
When we compare by price we are missing the point and not comparing like with like, it just happens that they are all motor vehicles.
That's my point though, Ineos' software isn't really up to the same standard as any other manufacturer, and this is despite having the luxury of engineering their entire line from the ground up and a relatively limited feature set. And the luxury of the prior decade of automotive software invention. They didnt have to invent anything new. They didn't have to do what legacy manufacturers (who by the way, also aren't 'tech' companies) which is fold new tech into legacy existing systems, components, and operations with probably decades of prior design decisions behind them.

I get where you are coming from, and I think it's a very forgiving place. I'm not there, I think Ineos Auto was and is too well funded to have a low bar of expectations for them, and their actions (ie lack of action) in this space have further pushed me away from that forgiving place. I like the car, but it's software is a mess. It's a 'built for purpose' vehicle for which you can't even rotate the tires on and expect the tpms system to detect the tire location for example. This is a many-decade-old solved problem my guy, and it's by far not the only one that exists and is still unpatched.
 
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Let me introduce you to Rivian. They just started delivering vehicles in 2022 I believe it was. It is one of the more software driven vehicles in the public market today. Is it flawless, not a chance, but it does a lot and does it all very competently. I didn't want my Gren to be a Rivian, I wanted analog. I'm fine with a CAN bus to a digital gauge cluster and such. I don't even mind a touch screen all that much. But what Ineos ended up doing was just hiding a bunch of poorly baked tech behind some physical buttons.
I thought about leasing one during the fire sale last year. hey really seem to be nailing the electric car tech, and fixing any issue rapidly, without excuses. Even before tesla was Swasticar, I couldnt figure out why anyone would buy one over rivian.
 
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