Mud Terrains

[ORSO]

is this the symbol that identifies the 3PMS compound on the BFG KO2?

 

[stickshifter]

I drove the Grenadier on a bitumen test track that was wet from light rain.
It had the K02 tyres that come with the vehicle from factory.
I was surprised at how well it gripped on bends.
I was driving with Justin Hocevar in the passenger seat.
On the home straight he told me to go as fast as I wanted and then slam on the brakes.
It pulled up quickly, dead straight with no squirming.
Very impressed.

This was the test track I was on.
View attachment 7826673

This matches my experience. We currently have three vehicles all with KO2 tires with the 3PMS rubber (C-rated on two vehicles, E-rated on one vehicle). Two of these vehicles are on their second set of KO2s. This is a great tire for our use - meaning our terrain, and our type of driving. The tires do great on dry roads, on wet roads, on gravel, on corrugated dirt roads, and rock crawling. Yes, a Mud Terrain (MT) tire would be a better rock crawler, but much, much worse at driving to the trails, driving around town, longer stopping distance on both dry and wet roads, and terrible on snow or ice-covered roads. So we stick with AT tires.

We do not encounter much mud here. If we drove in mud regularly, I would definitely want a MT tire.

The KO2 has also been good for us in snow, but we do not often drive in snow with these tires. We get a lot of snow, ice, and very cold conditions here at 8,500 feet, so we run a true winter-rated snow-tire on our vehicles almost 6 months per year.

All the top-brand AT tires are good tires. The differences between the top brands are pretty minimal: one might be a little better at one thing, but a little worse at another - but when comparing top brand AT tires you are splitting hairs. To me, the idea of swapping a brand new KO2 (3PMS) tire for a different brand wouldn't make sense. My guess, is that all the negative reports about KO2s on wet roads were KO2s using the harder - longer lasting - rubber compound. Anyone considering the removal from their Grenadier of their brand new KO2s - if they are the 3PMS rubber - should really look into reports of poor traction, and figure out what tire people were actually talking about.

Lastly, I would guess that BFG was mostly selling KO2s with the harder - longer lasting - rubber in a place like Australia, where there isn't much snow and ice. Aussie drivers instead, face tough gravel, corrugated dirt roads, and some other nasty types of conditions that beat up a tire. The tougher rubber compound in the KO2 would do better in those conditions, but it seems that BFG didn't realize that the tougher rubber was pretty skittish on wet roads. It will be interesting to see how the KO3 performs, and if they can get longer wear from a 3PMS rubber.

 

[rovie]

is this the symbol that identifies the 3PMS compound on the BFG KO2?

yep.

 

[stickshifter]

is this the symbol that identifies the 3PMS compound on the BFG KO2?

Yes.

 

[jeremy_matrix]

This matches my experience. We currently have three vehicles all with KO2 tires with the 3PMS rubber (C-rated on two vehicles, E-rated on one vehicle). Two of these vehicles are on their second set of KO2s. This is a great tire for our use - meaning our terrain, and our type of driving. The tires do great on dry roads, on wet roads, on gravel, on corrugated dirt roads, and rock crawling. Yes, a Mud Terrain (MT) tire would be a better rock crawler, but much, much worse at driving to the trails, driving around town, longer stopping distance on both dry and wet roads, and terrible on snow or ice-covered roads. So we stick with AT tires.

We do not encounter much mud here. If we drove in mud regularly, I would definitely want a MT tire.

The KO2 has also been good for us in snow, but we do not often drive in snow with these tires. We get a lot of snow, ice, and very cold conditions here at 8,500 feet, so we run a true winter-rated snow-tire on our vehicles almost 6 months per year.

All the top-brand AT tires are good tires. The differences between the top brands are pretty minimal: one might be a little better at one thing, but a little worse at another - but when comparing top brand AT tires you are splitting hairs. To me, the idea of swapping a brand new KO2 (3PMS) tire for a different brand wouldn't make sense. My guess, is that all the negative reports about KO2s on wet roads were KO2s using the harder - longer lasting - rubber compound. Anyone considering the removal from their Grenadier of their brand new KO2s - if they are the 3PMS rubber - should really look into reports of poor traction, and figure out what tire people were actually talking about.

Lastly, I would guess that BFG was mostly selling KO2s with the harder - longer lasting - rubber in a place like Australia, where there isn't much snow and ice. Aussie drivers instead, face tough gravel, corrugated dirt roads, and some other nasty types of conditions that beat up a tire. The tougher rubber compound in the KO2 would do better in those conditions, but it seems that BFG didn't realize that the tougher rubber was pretty skittish on wet roads. It will be interesting to see how the KO3 performs, and if they can get longer wear from a 3PMS rubber.

BFG K02 w/ 3PMSF, E load, 50psi F and 70psi R on Mercedes Sprinter vans (large contingent).
MANY clients frustrated with the difficulty getting these tires to balance and remain balanced, odd wave-like wear patterns on edges (one tread lug is worn down, next lug in rotation isn't, next is, next isn't; yes, alignment is spot on, wear across the tire face is otherwise even so pressures are good), howl like a banshee once they wear down below ~60% tread remaining, AND they're the most expensive of the A/T's.
Many clients have therefore switched to Falken Wildpeak A/T3W, General Grabber A/TX, Cooper Discoverer AT3, Toyo OpenCountry ATIII. No complaints from their decisions.

I have the K02 E's on one of my Cayenne's, and wear has been ok, but they're starting to howl.

And fully agreed that the K02 is NOT a true winter tire for packed snow/ice. Fresh snow ok, but 3PMSF to us does not mean dedicated winter, despite what the forum guys will say. Get a Blizzak or Hakkapeliitta for that.

$0.03.

 

[rovie]

BFG K02 w/ 3PMSF, E load, 50psi F and 70psi R on Mercedes Sprinter vans (large contingent).
MANY clients frustrated with the difficulty getting these tires to balance and remain balanced, odd wave-like wear patterns on edges (one tread lug is worn down, next lug in rotation isn't, next is, next isn't; yes, alignment is spot on, wear across the tire face is otherwise even so pressures are good), howl like a banshee once they wear down below ~60% tread remaining, AND they're the most expensive of the A/T's.
Many clients have therefore switched to Falken Wildpeak A/T3W, General Grabber A/TX, Cooper Discoverer AT3, Toyo OpenCountry ATIII. No complaints from their decisions.

I have the K02 E's on one of my Cayenne's, and wear has been ok, but they're starting to howl.

And fully agreed that the K02 is NOT a true winter tire for packed snow/ice. Fresh snow ok, but 3PMSF to us does not mean dedicated winter, despite what the forum guys will say. Get a Blizzak or Hakkapeliitta for that.

$0.03.

Hi @jeremy_matrix did I understand that correctly, you have experience with the K02 on the Sprinter?
For the first time on the Grenadier, I was satisfied for the few months in the dry summer. I’m looking forward to autumn and winter and the wet, greasy forest and dirt roads? We don’t have real snow here in Germany.
I have now also ordered them for the Sprinter 4x4, which I will receive next year. I want to take the Sprinter off the road, but not into heavy terrain or deep snow, which he would not be suitable for.

 

[jeremy_matrix]

Hi @jeremy_matrix did I understand that correctly, you have experience with the K02 on the Sprinter?
For the first time on the Grenadier, I was satisfied for the few months in the dry summer. I’m looking forward to autumn and winter and the wet, greasy forest and dirt roads? We don’t have real snow here in Germany.
I have now also ordered them for the Sprinter 4x4, which I will receive next year. I want to take the Sprinter off the road, but not into heavy terrain or deep snow, which he would not be suitable for.

Yes, lots. The K02 is a very popular Sprinter 4WD/AWD tire, probably due in most part to RV/van builders like Winnebago, Storyteller, etc equipping new vans with the K02. So for many Sprinter owners, even though it's all they've experienced and know, they think it's the best and will go to battle for it.
Overall, it's a good tire. But in our opinion, there are better tires out there now for less money.

Enjoy both of your fine rigs!

 

[rovie]

Yes, lots. The K02 is a very popular Sprinter 4WD/AWD tire, probably due in most part to RV/van builders like Winnebago, Storyteller, etc equipping new vans with the K02. So for many Sprinter owners, even though it's all they've experienced and know, they think it's the best and will go to battle for it.
Overall, it's a good tire. But in our opinion, there are better tires out there now for less money.

Enjoy both of your fine rigs!

Thanks for your opinion.