Move to Defender?

[lagartoboy]

What a unique and amazing perspective you have, owning both. A little bit about my recent car purchases. In August 2020, I bought a Tasman Blue 110 HSE with Khaki Windsor leather interior. It had the old school contrasting white roof. I really liked it and had it for over a year. Then when the Bronco came out, I parted with my Defender for almost what I paid for it more than a year and 16k miles earlier.

I’ve had my 2DR Bronco Wildtrak since February 2022 and really like it. But the Grenadier in Fieldmaster trim appeals to me as well, for probably the same reason the Defender and many Land Rovers before that appeal to me, and also for why I was drawn to the Bronco.

If I get the Grenadier or the Defender, it would be my rugged outdoors vehicle, to take to work on bad weather days, or to take the dog out, go to the beach, or for long road trips or highway blasts. (The X5 is great at that but my wife usually drives that.) I live 250 miles from the nearest INEOS or Land Rover dealer. What I’m looking for (and probably already have to some degree with my Bronco) is something:

- Masculine;
- Cool looking;
- Versatile;
- As reliable as possible.

What would you recommend?

You are a lot closer than 250 miles to a dealer now. Sewell is open in San Antonio, which I believe is less than 100 miles from Corpus.

 

[vtgrenadier]

adly they stopped using manuals as rental cars in Australia about 30 years ago.
Very few people under 35 could drive them, or tourists from USA ( a generalisation)
I hired a manual Fiat 500 in Sardinia and Sicily a couple of years ago and a manual Fiat Panda in southern Italy
Common in Europe.
Was interesting not only driving on the opposite side of the road to usual but also changing gears with the right hand instead of the left.
I had to quickly drop back to second once and smashed my left hand into the door.
Solid reminder which side the gear stick is on.

Haha! My poor wife rode one time in a RHD Delica that a buddy of mine had... she screamed with sheer terror as we drove down a twisty, but high speed, road. The lack of steering wheel on her side was disconcerting. I just tried to follow the white fog line on the right side of the road.

It's a shame that I can't acclimate because RHD Land Rover Defenders in the USA are solidly discounted. I could probably pull off a Kei truck (i.e. Acty).

Even more off-topic: the undercarriage on that Delica really impressed me. Zerk fittings galore, indicating that it's a tool for the long term and not just bloated and disposable minivan, like we most of what we get here in the USA. Grass is always greener, right? Anything in the US that AU doesn't get... that's attractive?

 

[BlueRich]

You've probably made your decision by now but I can offer my perspective.
My daily drive is a Trialmaster Diesel and my wife has a Defender L663 110 HSE. She's had it from new and has now racked up 64,000 miles over nearly five years.

We use it regularly for towing a very large trailer with three horses/ 4 ponies and also for days out shooting, so it gets some mild off-roading. It's also used to ferry kids to school, dogs etc. The leather interior has held up well. A bit shiny and signs of wear on the seat edges where you get in and out.

We've had very little in the way of problems. The halo lights have failed twice, the last time out of warrantee, that cost £2500 for a single unit. Service costs are in line with the Grenadier.
It is supremely comfortable, the seats are fully adjustable, heated etc. The engine is quiet, steering accurate and smooth, perhaps too much so. MPG is around 27-29 , maybe more if you're gentle. Tonnes of storage inside and a pleasure to drive long distances. Feel tip top after a 4 hours journey.

So all in, it's been a good car. It's certainly miles better than the Discovery 5 that it replaced.

Why did I get a Grenadier then ? Because I honestly think it will last, it's replacing my run of old defenders, all having being used as intended. It's a huge upgrade in that respect.

The defender is seriously starting to show it's age on the exterior, the bodywork dents and scratches unbelievably easily. The general build quality is below average. Wheel arches have blown off (YES BLOWN OFF), they're stuck on with sticky tape and I'm not kidding.
All of the door seals are perishing and have become tacky to the touch. Deployable tow bar is stuck out, which concerns me as to what the heck is wrong with it (should I even tow with it ?!).
The boot is tiny for such a huge vehicle. Visibility is poor. Illogical infotainment, still not all that familiar with it after five years.
But.... most of all, the after sales care is dismal, it's chaotic and at no time do you feel even remotely special for buying a "Luxury SUV" (not that I want to!) . Also just discovering how horrific it is to own one out of warranty. It will be going pretty soon but I'm not sure what on earth to replace it with. My wife likes the Grenadier but not enough to drive it everyday.
So if it's comfort you're after, get a Defender, if it's longevity, then perhaps a Grenadier, even better a Grenadier MK2 (as and when that may come out) !!

There are two things I would change with the Grenadier.
The Steering (mine is absolutely fine but it's tiresome on longer journey's).
The seats, (the lack of adjustment both to the lumbar and to the rake of the seat is just such a shame).
Not bothered about the "foot rest", in fact I think I would miss it if it wasn't there!!

 

[Tr182md]

Funny, I just paid for my IG yesterday and I have a 2023 ND 110X that I love. The reason I added an IG was I had been to the dealer a few times, the last was for a DCDC converter that apparently is starting to fail in a lot of these trucks. It is for the hybrid system. I had a low battery warnings and was charging every few days but one day I was not fully charged and the whole thing died about 1/2 block from the house. Was able to charge with neighbors help and get it home. I am losing confidence and don't want to get stuck when I go overloading ... which was my whole goal here.

The other reason is that I wanted to add a winch and some rock sliders and I just could not bring myself to perform surgery on the ND. Would have to cut off a lot of plastic and add new bumper.

My experience is that the ND is much better all around at just about everything but it is a pain to modify and I love to modify stuff. Also the electronics are really cool but unless you go to custom mode you really are not in control of anything. The Diffs lock as needed and I think that is part of the reason I got stuck in some sand. I had only aired down to 18 psi but with such small sidewall I was afraid to go too low (another weakness) . So maybe less air would also have helped. But to be honest I was in Sand mode and I have no idea what that actually meant in the real world. smoother accelleration but diffs are not fully locked and the car did not have to be in low mode.

With the IG I can add a winch and sliders easily and the manual control of the 4x4 stuff will be nice. However I will miss the comfort, the tech, the stereo (I know not critical but I have not had such a basic stereo since I drove a VW bug.)

I may not be able to part with my Defender but I struggle to justify having a motorcycle, an LR3, a Defender, a convertible and a Grenadier! Wife is starting to notice!

 

[mcdoogs]

I was in the same boat with my ND (which I loved) build. I was basically at a point where the only modifications left that I wanted to do was a winch and a subframe lift. The cost (subframe lifts start at like $7k for 2” just for the parts and it’s not a diy job) and the effort to install a new bumper was just not appetizing compared to an IG’s ease of modification. I dont wanna provoke the defensive, protective side of the forum by comparing their other characteristics though

 

[Docmenace]

Speaking of ND. I have a 22 ND 110 and my 24 Grenadier. ND has been in the shop for a month getting a new engine.... Thankfully covered by my extended warranty. 57.5K miles... dealership maintained.. Oil changed every 7500 mi rather than the 21000 recommended. Loved the ND until now and it ran great...until it didn't with minimal warning. I had a rough idle that I addressed with the dealership but they could not reproduce it and there were no codes so they said all was good. I disagreed drove it a few more miles and brought it back. Upon further investigation...."you need a new engine". Getting it back next week, selling it, and the Grenadier will be my daily driver.

 

[vtgrenadier]

Both of my new Defenders (a '22 P400 and a '24 P300) were flawless over 40k+ miles... but redundant to the IG, so the latter was sold. I had put Lucky 8 rock sliders on the 90 (4+ hours) and have since put Owl rock sliders on the IG (14 minutes per side), so your points about ease of modification are well noted.

 

[mcdoogs]

Both of my new Defenders (a '22 P400 and a '24 P300) were flawless over 40k+ miles... but redundant to the IG, so the latter was sold. I had put Lucky 8 rock sliders on the 90 (4+ hours) and have since put Owl rock sliders on the IG (14 minutes per side), so your points about ease of modification are well noted.

Those lucky8 sliders are pretty nice though, beefy extending 12-18 inches under the car and the standoff tubes are a good step. I had them on my ‘22 P300

 

[Coullabus]

Mmm... Scheel-Manns... transformed the comfort of both of my most recent Land Rovers, but not sure how to solve the RHD foot pedal issue.



View attachment 7880413View attachment 7880414View attachment 7880417

Love that Green The colour of my very first S2 (1962)

 

[vtgrenadier]

Love that Green The colour of my very first S2 (1962)

She was a special one for sure!

 

[vtgrenadier]

Those lucky8 sliders are pretty nice though, beefy extending 12-18 inches under the car and the standoff tubes are a good step. I had them on my ‘22 P300

Indeed!

The P300 proved to be a much better motor for off-roading... more low-end torque and better responsiveness. Although, I fell in love with my 110 the moment I discovered that I could open and close the doors when fully 'flexed.'

 

[DaveB]

This is a genuine post from a somewhat frustrated Fieldmaster owner

In the 6 months of ownership, I’ve had a load of niggles - faulty shockers, faulty Low Range shift, the abominable HVAC and a creaking dashboard so annoying I want to have the car crushed.

At the same time, slowly and at first un-noticably, I have become utterly crippled with lower back pain. I have finally realised - driving the Grenadier for between 3-4 hours on weekdays, the seats, lack of lower back support or adjustment and the infamous RHD foot rest is the cause. I’m 180cm and 170lbs - I should have no problems - but I can just no longer get comfortable - the constantly raised left leg no matter what the seating position is twisting my hip joint. If I put the seat on its lowest position the steering wheels is too high and far away - if I have it on its highest position - I can’t put the seat far enough back to stretch my legs. Ergonomically it’s inexplicably poor and something you only realise with hundreds of hours of driving it.

So I’m left feeling physically drained by the sheer hard work of owning this Grenadier. I used to have classic Land Rover Defender 90’s and 110’s and I never struggled to get comfortable.

I need a car with this level of capability though - I live on a former farm in the middle of nowhere and the terrain and weather is extreme for the UK. In the UK our choice of vehicle is limited. It’s either the Grenadier, a Defender, the hard to come by and crazily priced new Land Cruiser or a plethora of pickups.

So I’ve found myself eyeing up the new Defender 110/130. I know this is not the place to seek LR recommendations but I’d like opinions whether I should try to stick with the Grenadier and any genuine thoughts on the Defender as a capable vehicle?

The Defender seems far superior in the interior - the seats, driving position and comfort are a world ahead of the Grenadier. They’re also cheaper - believe it or not - even when you add even more bells and whistles - they can be had for a lot less than the Grenadier.

Land Rover and technology/infotainment screens aren’t synonymous with reliability - but there too, I’ve found the Grenadier poor - to say it’s a re-skimmed BMW system is baffling such are its flaws and bugs, ghost warnings and alerts etc.

So I guess my questions are:

Are there things I can do to get along with my Grenadier?

Are my experiences rare or are we all a bit too forgiving?

Thoughts in the new Defender?

Any other suggestions for the UK market?

Thanks all,

After 40,000 kms in my Grenadier, often 8 hour drives with short rest stops I am surprised you have a problem with the seats.
They are firm and supportive to me.
Unbelievably good for long drives.
I have my seat cranked up as high as it will go and right back and am 178 cms tall.
I also sit very upright and so don't need lumbar support.

Lumbar support in seats is a bit like arch support in shoes and knee braces.
They make up for physical problems that probably need to be addressed unless caused by some kind of accident.

I rarely wear shoes with heels or thick soles so the footrest is really not an issue, particularly on long drives where I use cruise control.

Sounds to me though that you would be better served by an SUV that is more carlike in it's interior fitout but still has reasonable offroad capability.
New Defender is great but I wouldn't let one get out of warranty.

 

[mcdoogs]

Indeed!

The P300 proved to be a much better motor for off-roading... more low-end torque and better responsiveness. Although, I fell in love with my 110 the moment I discovered that I could open and close the doors when fully 'flexed.'

Agreed. Similar to your situation i had my P300 and my wife still has a ‘23 P400 and the P300 just has a smoother torque curve and throttle response especially in low range. Also, it was available with 18” steelies (RIP) and at something like 12k less dollars lol. For a Defender that you actually want to offroad, it’s the spec I’d overwhelmingly recommend. Decent on the highway too. Obviously less power overall than the P400 but it never struggled. The IG B58 and gear box feels pretty similar to the P300 to me.

For towing and mostly highway touring obviously, go with the P400. I loved this car, and I regret selling it. I should have kept her i just barely have a need for one car working 99% remotely