Move to Defender?

[alex3dworld]

life is only one brother. go for it.
i feel the same, i drive 2 hours a day my grenadier and seats are not a charm. i knew they were going to be uncomfortable since i owned many recaro seats before. driving Mitsubishi evolution and Subaru STI's i exactly knew how sport oriented are them. i'm not a young kid no more and feel the lack of comfort of the seats for long trips. i believe right now your back is more important than having a car able to crawl a vertical wall. get the best for your health. nobody is going to give you a medal for keep the uncomfortable seat.

 

[Patriot]

Being either lucky or insane enough to currently own both a modern Defender 110 and a Grenadier I can honestly say I like them both for what they are. I can’t fault the Defender in any meaningful way as it’s a very capable vehicle both on and off-road. Likewise for the Grenadier, even though it’s brand new vehicle to the market and has a few interesting quirks I really can’t fault it either.

Both will out perform my off-roading abilities and will more than likely keep me from stranding myself. I thought I’d gravitate more toward one or the other but I have not found that to be the case. Others have criticized the new Defender for being much more of a “soft-roader” compared to the original and fair point. However, it’s still a remarkable vehicle off-road even though it is relying on technology to accomplish most of that.

For all the Grenadiers back-to-basics robustness, it’s a bit more awkward on the road but doesn’t fail at any mission I give it whether it’s a trip into town or roughing it up a local mountain trail it just doesn’t complain at all. Can I offer any helpful insights into which one is truly better? No, of course not, as everyone’s use cases and justifications for owning either are specific to them. I will say, I enjoy the character and personality of both vehicles equally and find each perform what they said they would do on the wrapper.

It was not my the intention to own both at the same time it just sort of worked out that way. Compared to what other vehicle options exist out there in this market segment nothing else really appealed to me besides these vehicles. So for the time being I’ll enjoy both until one either breaks my heart or steals my wallet (I guess they’ve both done that already) so fingers crossed.

What a unique and amazing perspective you have, owning both. A little bit about my recent car purchases. In August 2020, I bought a Tasman Blue 110 HSE with Khaki Windsor leather interior. It had the old school contrasting white roof. I really liked it and had it for over a year. Then when the Bronco came out, I parted with my Defender for almost what I paid for it more than a year and 16k miles earlier.

I’ve had my 2DR Bronco Wildtrak since February 2022 and really like it. But the Grenadier in Fieldmaster trim appeals to me as well, for probably the same reason the Defender and many Land Rovers before that appeal to me, and also for why I was drawn to the Bronco.

If I get the Grenadier or the Defender, it would be my rugged outdoors vehicle, to take to work on bad weather days, or to take the dog out, go to the beach, or for long road trips or highway blasts. (The X5 is great at that but my wife usually drives that.) I live 250 miles from the nearest INEOS or Land Rover dealer. What I’m looking for (and probably already have to some degree with my Bronco) is something:

- Masculine;
- Cool looking;
- Versatile;
- As reliable as possible.

What would you recommend?

 

[C-Mack]

What a unique and amazing perspective you have, owning both. A little bit about my recent car purchases. In August 2020, I bought a Tasman Blue 110 HSE with Khaki Windsor leather interior. It had the old school contrasting white roof. I really liked it and had it for over a year. Then when the Bronco came out, I parted with my Defender for almost what I paid for it more than a year and 16k miles earlier.

I’ve had my 2DR Bronco Wildtrak since February 2022 and really like it. But the Grenadier in Fieldmaster trim appeals to me as well, for probably the same reason the Defender and many Land Rovers before that appeal to me, and also for why I was drawn to the Bronco.

If I get the Grenadier or the Defender, it would be my rugged outdoors vehicle, to take to work on bad weather days, or to take the dog out, go to the beach, or for long road trips or highway blasts. (The X5 is great at that but my wife usually drives that.) I live 250 miles from the nearest INEOS or Land Rover dealer. What I’m looking for (and probably already have to some degree with my Bronco) is something:

- Masculine;
- Cool looking;
- Versatile;
- As reliable as possible.

What would you recommend?

Always buy the vehicles you enjoy and don’t take guff from anyone about it would be my advice. Gotta make hay while the sun shines as it’s not difficult to see a future in which we are all mandated to drive the equivalent of rolling appliances lacking the personality and versatility of the Grenadier, Defender and other vehicles like them.

Sure the Grenadier is edgy and it’s a bit of a gamble to buy into such a new vehicle and company but there is something just so compelling about it compared to all the other brands it seemed worthwhile to try. Time will tell if that was a mistake but enjoyment in life can be fleeting so why live with regrets?

 

[landmannnn]

What a unique and amazing perspective you have, owning both. A little bit about my recent car purchases. In August 2020, I bought a Tasman Blue 110 HSE with Khaki Windsor leather interior. It had the old school contrasting white roof. I really liked it and had it for over a year. Then when the Bronco came out, I parted with my Defender for almost what I paid for it more than a year and 16k miles earlier.

I’ve had my 2DR Bronco Wildtrak since February 2022 and really like it. But the Grenadier in Fieldmaster trim appeals to me as well, for probably the same reason the Defender and many Land Rovers before that appeal to me, and also for why I was drawn to the Bronco.

If I get the Grenadier or the Defender, it would be my rugged outdoors vehicle, to take to work on bad weather days, or to take the dog out, go to the beach, or for long road trips or highway blasts. (The X5 is great at that but my wife usually drives that.) I live 250 miles from the nearest INEOS or Land Rover dealer. What I’m looking for (and probably already have to some degree with my Bronco) is something:

- Masculine;
- Cool looking;
- Versatile;
- As reliable as possible.

What would you recommend?

- Masculine; - So not the plastic Defender
- Cool looking; Bronco or Grenadier, not Defender
- Versatile; The phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none" springs to mind. Probably a pickup for the ultimate versatilty
- As reliable as possible. Buy a Toyota.

Not sure I helped.

 

[Zimm]

wild track is nice. I took one for a test ride. unfortunately payload and the fit and finish carry over from the base units costing 60%, even though admittedly its a ridiculousness capable rig out of the box in 2door. it lost out for the fit and finish, payload, drivers seat cant be all the way back when the rear seats are folded, and it doesn't have the flat fenders. I figure maybe I'll get one used a few years from now and beat the crap out of it.

 

[vtgrenadier]

Here in the States, we have something called "Turo." It's a rental car company where owners rent out their own vehicles... is there anything similar in the UK? If so, once you settle on one or two options, perhaps you can rent examples for a weekend to be sure you're not going to run into a similar problem.

 

[MurphyMurph]

Always buy the vehicles you enjoy and don’t take guff from anyone about it would be my advice. Gotta make hay while the sun shines as it’s not difficult to see a future in which we are all mandated to drive the equivalent of rolling appliances lacking the personality and versatility of the Grenadier, Defender and other vehicles like them.

Sure the Grenadier is edgy and it’s a bit of a gamble to buy into such a new vehicle and company but there is something just so compelling about it compared to all the other brands it seemed worthwhile to try. Time will tell if that was a mistake but enjoyment in life can be fleeting so why live with regrets?

https://www.unfinishedman.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/no-ragrets-tattoo-scaled.jpg

 

[ecohen2]

The only thing I wish the Grenadier seats had was an easy way to mark a particular position. Otherwise for someone who is 5'5" they are super comfortable even on 8 hour road trips....

 

[Patriot]

Updating my post #42 above … after thinking about it some more, I’ve decided against buying a Defender again. Been there done that. So, I will either stay put with my Bronco or trade it on a Grenadier. We’ll see.

 

[Commodore]

Updating my post #42 above … after thinking about it some more, I’ve decided against buying a Defender again. Been there done that. So, I will either stay put with my Bronco or trade it on a Grenadier. We’ll see.

I replaced my 2 door Bronco Sasquatch with my Grenadier and couldn’t be happier. The Grenadier is better at everything.

 

[trobex]

I raised the comfort issue back when I did several PT03 test drives - sadly Ineos did nothing about the engineers negative feedback that was provided from PT01 through PT03, during the 18000000000 miles travelled. I can understand the OPs issues as I have the same. I no longer drive it daily and instead have the vehicle over to my wife as the family commuter. I still drive it on a weekend or if we go on a trip but it isn't just the lumbar support that is the problem - the entire RHD ergomonics are out of kilt. Offset pedals, big footrest, tilt and reach is lacking both angle and depth given how much the seat can level and stretch etc.

Just hear them out as the concerns of discomfort are very real.

I hope the OP finds what they are looking for as good vehicle comfort is mandatory for good health residual if you drive a lot.

 

[landmannnn]

I raised the comfort issue back when I did several PT03 test drives - sadly Ineos did nothing about the engineers negative feedback that was provided from PT01 through PT03, during the 18000000000 miles travelled. I can understand the OPs issues as I have the same. I no longer drive it daily and instead have the vehicle over to my wife as the family commuter. I still drive it on a weekend or if we go on a trip but it isn't just the lumbar support that is the problem - the entire RHD ergomonics are out of kilt. Offset pedals, big footrest, tilt and reach is lacking both angle and depth given how much the seat can level and stretch etc.

Just hear them out as the concerns of discomfort are very real.

I hope the OP finds what they are looking for as good vehicle comfort is mandatory for good health residual if you drive a lot.

The RHD ergonomics are absolutely fine for me.

 

[trobex]

The RHD ergonomics are absolutely fine for me.

But not all - hence the point of this thread and others, being a real-life issue at hand. Fuel econ is fine though in the B57 in my view.

 

[mcdoogs]

I’m debating the exact opposite move. I have a 2022 Defender 110 S that I absolutely adore. Best vehicle I’ve ever owned, never needed a dealers intervention. Wonderful to drive on and off road. Its a custom order so it has everything I wanted with the offroad/towing/comfort/cold climate packs, adaptive cruise control, clearview camera, air suspension, bigger screen. Most of those were hard to get during the semi shortage of 2021! Top it all off with a 1.9% rate. My wife has a 2023 P400 Defender that we use to tow our 6000lb Oliver Travel Trailer all over the continent too, and it tows like a dream no weight distribution hitch needed. The defenders engineering nullifies sway before I can even feel it. The only towing negative is the 23 gallon tank lol.

Its even pretty fun (if pricey) to bolt on accessories to it(rock sliders, roof rack, ladder, ditch lights, onboard compressor, etc).


Anyways, after driving it across NA and back 3 times i’m just a few thousand miles off the end of warranty. Couple that with the financing and dealer incentives and the fact my closest dealer has one unit that matches my wants (either white or mushroom, safari, lockers, tow, electrical upgrade) and I’m seriously considering making the switch.

All that is to say, the new Defender is a fantastic vehicle from my experience with two of them across 75k miles. Comfortable on long road trips and a great blend of luxury and utilitarianism in the interior. You really imo can’t go wrong if you are cross shopping a Grenadier and a Defender, this is a blessed position to be in.

Heres some pics of my defender (blue and white) at top of the world in moab and our road trip caravan

 

[Mac8086]

This is a genuine post from a somewhat frustrated Fieldmaster owner

In the 6 months of ownership, I’ve had a load of niggles - faulty shockers, faulty Low Range shift, the abominable HVAC and a creaking dashboard so annoying I want to have the car crushed.

At the same time, slowly and at first un-noticably, I have become utterly crippled with lower back pain. I have finally realised - driving the Grenadier for between 3-4 hours on weekdays, the seats, lack of lower back support or adjustment and the infamous RHD foot rest is the cause. I’m 180cm and 170lbs - I should have no problems - but I can just no longer get comfortable - the constantly raised left leg no matter what the seating position is twisting my hip joint. If I put the seat on its lowest position the steering wheels is too high and far away - if I have it on its highest position - I can’t put the seat far enough back to stretch my legs. Ergonomically it’s inexplicably poor and something you only realise with hundreds of hours of driving it.

So I’m left feeling physically drained by the sheer hard work of owning this Grenadier. I used to have classic Land Rover Defender 90’s and 110’s and I never struggled to get comfortable.

I need a car with this level of capability though - I live on a former farm in the middle of nowhere and the terrain and weather is extreme for the UK. In the UK our choice of vehicle is limited. It’s either the Grenadier, a Defender, the hard to come by and crazily priced new Land Cruiser or a plethora of pickups.

So I’ve found myself eyeing up the new Defender 110/130. I know this is not the place to seek LR recommendations but I’d like opinions whether I should try to stick with the Grenadier and any genuine thoughts on the Defender as a capable vehicle?

The Defender seems far superior in the interior - the seats, driving position and comfort are a world ahead of the Grenadier. They’re also cheaper - believe it or not - even when you add even more bells and whistles - they can be had for a lot less than the Grenadier.

Land Rover and technology/infotainment screens aren’t synonymous with reliability - but there too, I’ve found the Grenadier poor - to say it’s a re-skimmed BMW system is baffling such are its flaws and bugs, ghost warnings and alerts etc.

So I guess my questions are:

Are there things I can do to get along with my Grenadier?

Are my experiences rare or are we all a bit too forgiving?

Thoughts in the new Defender?

Any other suggestions for the UK market?

Thanks all,

Here is what I did …. I bought a new Defender 110 last year. It’s a dream to drive very comfortable with the air ride. Great for long trips. The info entertainment system is poor. I thought I wanted a more old school type Defender so last week I bought a Grenadier Trialmaster. I will keep the Defender too for longer road trips. It’s my third Landrover all of them the battery needs to be replaced in 2 years.

 

[DaveB]

Here in the States, we have something called "Turo." It's a rental car company where owners rent out their own vehicles... is there anything similar in the UK? If so, once you settle on one or two options, perhaps you can rent examples for a weekend to be sure you're not going to run into a similar problem.

I would hate to have someone treat my vehicle like a hire car.

 

[vtgrenadier]

I would hate to have someone treat my vehicle like a hire car.

Not my cup of tea either, but it's a popular enough site to attract all kinds of cars:

https://turo.com/us/en/suv-rental/united-states/lees-summit-mo/ineos/grenadier-station/2643952

https://turo.com/ca/en/suv-rental/united-states/commerce-city-co/land-rover/defender/2716812

https://turo.com/us/en/car-rental/united-states/hialeah-fl/ferrari/488-gtb/2852331?startTime=10%3A00&startDate=01%2F09%2F2025&endTime=10%3A00&endDate=01%2F12%2F2025

 

[DaveB]

Not my cup of tea either, but it's a popular enough site to attract all kinds of cars:

https://turo.com/us/en/suv-rental/united-states/lees-summit-mo/ineos/grenadier-station/2643952

https://turo.com/ca/en/suv-rental/united-states/commerce-city-co/land-rover/defender/2716812

https://turo.com/us/en/car-rental/united-states/hialeah-fl/ferrari/488-gtb/2852331?startTime=10%3A00&startDate=01%2F09%2F2025&endTime=10%3A00&endDate=01%2F12%2F2025

I love the thought that people under 30 are subject to extra security checks
Obviously they haven't seen us over 60's drive rental cars.

 

[landmannnn]

I love the thought that people under 30 are subject to extra security checks
Obviously they haven't seen us over 60's drive rental cars.

I prefer a manual gearbox on a rental car. It's very difficult to keep the rev counter in the required red zone with an automatic.

 

[DaveB]

I prefer a manual gearbox on a rental car. It's very difficult to keep the rev counter in the required red zone with an automatic.

adly they stopped using manuals as rental cars in Australia about 30 years ago.
Very few people under 35 could drive them, or tourists from USA ( a generalisation)
I hired a manual Fiat 500 in Sardinia and Sicily a couple of years ago and a manual Fiat Panda in southern Italy
Common in Europe.
Was interesting not only driving on the opposite side of the road to usual but also changing gears with the right hand instead of the left.
I had to quickly drop back to second once and smashed my left hand into the door.
Solid reminder which side the gear stick is on.