Idle speculation on the cause of the delay..

[DCPU]

The delay may be being engineered to provide the greater ‘Ineos’ Co with an efficient 2022/23 tax regime. Large profits on the oil & gas side countered by significant losses from the automotive group, with release & payment from vehicles in the new tax year?

It's already sitting on deferred tax on losses of approximately €506,469.00 up to the 2021 tax year end, so I'm not sure it has to look outside for help.

 

[Krabby]

Who would possibly believe the dog ate my homework
I got away with the goat ate my homework
But we all know goats will eat anything

I once let a student off the hook for no homework with the excuse “the dog ate my pencil.” Best excuse I’ve gotten in 20 years of teaching.

 

[AnD3rew]

I’m going against the grain here and saying that a combination of parts and software is the main reason for the delay. To me a marketing thing doesn’t make financial or marketing sense as it must be costing them a fortune and it’s clearly pissing people off. Legal and regulatory also doesn’t make sense to me as the same issues seem to be holding up in UK/ all EU countries, South Africa and Australia. A gnarly software issue, particularly one that involves critical safety systems and where each potential revision requires testing and validation could definitely cause this, to throw another complication into the mix, if it also involved swapping out an ecu, in the current chip shortage environment that would definitely cause big delays. In fact the more I think about this, the need to swap out an ECU probably makes even more sense when you consider that there are a few cars out there, the Scottish cars and the hard way home one etc, which would suggest that if there were software issues that they have largely been resolved but they may have only been able to get hold of a handful of new ECUs and are waiting for a batch to come in.

 

[Rok_Dr]

Reading between the lines on a conversation elsewhere recently, perhaps the delay is in part due to IA not having all the support systems in place, resourced and working. Things like spare parts logistics, warehousing and inventory, on line documentation like user and workshop manuals, warranty management processes, etc etc.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Eric]

I’m going against the grain here and saying that a combination of parts and software is the main reason for the delay. To me a marketing thing doesn’t make financial or marketing sense as it must be costing them a fortune and it’s clearly pissing people off. Legal and regulatory also doesn’t make sense to me as the same issues seem to be holding up in UK/ all EU countries, South Africa and Australia. A gnarly software issue, particularly one that involves critical safety systems and where each potential revision requires testing and validation could definitely cause this, to throw another complication into the mix, if it also involved swapping out an ecu, in the current chip shortage environment that would definitely cause big delays. In fact the more I think about this, the need to swap out an ECU probably makes even more sense when you consider that there are a few cars out there, the Scottish cars and the hard way home one etc, which would suggest that if there were software issues that they have largely been resolved but they may have only been able to get hold of a handful of new ECUs and are waiting for a batch to come in.

I am not clear or understanding going forward what the situation is. OK I get it that the software issue at agents will be resolved shortly and vehicles will be released to customers mid April. Mentioned on other threads
But is Hambach now manufacturing vehicles finished, with the updated software? Or are they still knocking out vehicles that are " defective" that will sit at the agent for weeks again pending update. If it is the former then surely we can expect the release to increase at pace.

 

[Truffel]

 

[Tom D]

What is this new legislation?

 

[Arkaig]

View attachment 7807650

Boring - been discussed here: https://www.theineosforum.com/threa...rofitted-in-every-other-car-by-2024.12330401/

 

[DCPU]

If the dates recently posted for initial Type Approval are correct then Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) should figure as standard.

 

[CountyV8]

If the dates recently posted for initial Type Approval are correct then Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) should figure as standard.

oh no what next

 

[Stu_Barnes]

View attachment 7807650

threads merged STU

 

[AWo]

Well like the JLR case, they’ll try and mess with one another if they can…
Imagine if the grenadier launch is a disaster, recalls, safety issues and the like. That will hurt sales for sure. And fore every grenadier not bought something else will be.

I actually think that a lot of the emissions regulations that the EU has seen over recent years were designed to make it harder for ROW suppliers to sell into the EU. And so when the Chinese get the hang of euro4 out comes euro5 and so on. Its certainly stopped China and India exporting to the EU to a large extent.

But China sells E-Cars to Europe, not fuel based ones. With Polestar they have a joint venture with an European car company.

AWo

 

[Fidei Defensor]

I think everyone is too used to Amazon one-day delivery.....
And CEMechanic gave us a realistic summary of the many problems that can arise.
As mentioned before, software (possibly related to regulatory requirements) may be a problem. In the good old days, we did not worry about that, but now, getting the software right is probably the most difficult part.
But, as I am in the US, I am happy that they are holding back on our deliveries, as they should manage to have things sorrted by then (hopefully!).
They still say vehicles will be in the hands of some early adopters before year end......

 

[Eric]

I think everyone is too used to Amazon one-day delivery.....
And CEMechanic gave us a realistic summary of the many problems that can arise.
As mentioned before, software (possibly related to regulatory requirements) may be a problem. In the good old days, we did not worry about that, but now, getting the software right is probably the most difficult part.
But, as I am in the US, I am happy that they are holding back on our deliveries, as they should manage to have things sorrted by then (hopefully!).
They still say vehicles will be in the hands of some early adopters before year end......

You have the solution, Amazon to deliver vehicles. And a replacement sent if more than 3 days late....

 

[Cheshire cat]

There is always risk in launching production (early). The question is how good is your risk mitigation.
Rumour has it that as an engineer at Toyota you will need CEO approval to make a running production design change. This puts the organisation under so much pressure to work defect free, that by culture and by process there will be only very few problems that have to be dealt with.

With Ineos, they do need to get going and prove out their production capability. They can have strict rules and processes in place, but they won’t have the experience with people and the vehicle to have the same results as an established manufacturer, even if this is not a start up plant.

CE Mechanic
Very glad that you have joined this forum. It seems like you have a deep understanding of volume production and the challenges it presents. Thank you for sharing such knowledge here.

 

[Tom D]

I can’t believe that the software can cause the power steering to fail. AFAIK It’s a mechanical system. The pump is driven by a belt. The pumps drives the box. I think the issues reported above are caused by a mechanical issue. The software is reporting on things that sensors pick up in the system. Like low pressure. Or low fluid.

 

[Logsplitter]

I can’t believe that the software can cause the power steering to fail. AFAIK It’s a mechanical system. The pump is driven by a belt. The pumps drives the box. I think the issues reported above are caused by a mechanical issue. The software is reporting on things that sensors pick up in the system. Like low pressure. Or low fluid.

Yes I’ve just had that discussion with an agent on the live chat who was suggesting the fault may pertain to the software update , following on from that the Agent from Harwoods called and said it’s unlikely to be a software issue causing power steering to fail. But i had a warning in red “power steering error” along with the fact I couldn’t turn the wheel. I Questioned myself whether a software glitch could cause such a problem and happy to hear that it wouldn’t. Not really happy with the situation but better now than when we are touring around Southern Africa starting September

 

[Tom D]

Check the the software update thread.

 

[Tazzieman]

Yes I’ve just had that discussion with an agent on the live chat who was suggesting the fault may pertain to the software update , following on from that the Agent from Harwoods called and said it’s unlikely to be a software issue causing power steering to fail. But i had a warning in red “power steering error” along with the fact I couldn’t turn the wheel. I Questioned myself whether a software glitch could cause such a problem and happy to hear that it wouldn’t. Not really happy with the situation but better now than when we are touring around Southern Africa starting September

The Q is why would a mechanical failure be intermittent?
Unless something is jamming up in the grooves.

 

[Logsplitter]

The Q is why would a mechanical failure be intermittent?
Unless something is jamming up in the grooves.

No idea mate. I’m no mechanic just a jack of all trades. What I can say is that this forum is real useful and will get more useful as time goes on.