Idle speculation on the cause of the delay..

[DCPU]

I was curious about ownership and liability having paid but according to the contract terms "Title and ownership passes to the Customer upon the Purchase Price being received in full by INEOS in cleared funds and the Customer taking physical possession of the Vehicle."

 

[Eric]

I was curious about ownership and liability having paid but according to the contract terms "Title and ownership passes to the Customer upon the Purchase Price being received in full by INEOS in cleared funds and the Customer taking physical possession of the Vehicle."

That means @opsy can take his car at any time! Obviously better to let IA fetal it and sort it out, but I hold by my comments that IA should acknowledge their big mistake and make a big goodwill gesture

 

[bemax]

That means @opsy can take his car at any time! Obviously better to let IA fetal it and sort it out, but I hold by my comments that IA should acknowledge their big mistake and make a big goodwill gesture

He might be legally allowed to take his car. But the car unfortunately is not road legal at the moment, so he can not drive it on public streets.
It of course changes if your private estate is big enough.

 

[Tazzieman]

Obviously better to let IA fetal it

Ah a subtle reference to newborn , I like it!

 

[opsy]

He might be legally allowed to take his car. But the car unfortunately is not road legal at the moment, so he can not drive it on public streets.
It of course changes if your private estate is big enough.

Nor does it have a UK number plate so I can't insure it.

 

[Eric]

Nor does it have a UK number plate so I can't insure it.

No the point I am making, either way IA are in breach of contract and in a legal dilemma. If they don't supply- breach of contract. If they do it isn't road worth - breach of contract. Obviously IA need to sort it first - but they have made an awfully big mistake and they need to acknowledge that. Mistakes happen, especially with a new venture but their silence to you over your situation is not the way to go about it. Have you even had an apology?

 

[bemax]

Nor does it have a UK number plate so I can't insure it.

If your estate is big enough to drive it there, you shouldn’t care to much about the number plates and the insurance.
You can make your own plates with a funny name.
Some square miles should be enough in my opinion

 

[Gwynne]

Just had a chat with my dealer in the UK as I wait for my IG. Obviously there were chip delays, then in all probability some software issues - But he was saying that there were some Regulatory / Compliance issues preventing cars being sold in UK and Europe - He described it as 'red tape' and wasn't concerned by it - who knows...... More speculation, rumour or fact. Anyone else heard similar?

 

[DCPU]

Just had a chat with my dealer in the UK as I wait for my IG. Obviously there were chip delays, then in all probability some software issues - But he was saying that there were some Regulatory / Compliance issues preventing cars being sold in UK and Europe - He described it as 'red tape' and wasn't concerned by it - who knows...... More speculation, rumour or fact. Anyone else heard similar?

Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA)?

Mandatory speed limiter EU on all cars from July 2022 and retrofitted in every other car by 2024

No where has any mention been made about the new mandatory speed limiter that has to be fitted to all new EU cars from July 2022 and retrofitted into all other cars by 2024. I do hope this is not going to be some sort of bolt on afterthought of a box on the Grenadier and how does this even work...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[marko]

Just had a chat with my dealer in the UK as I wait for my IG. Obviously there were chip delays, then in all probability some software issues - But he was saying that there were some Regulatory / Compliance issues preventing cars being sold in UK and Europe - He described it as 'red tape' and wasn't concerned by it - who knows...... More speculation, rumour or fact. Anyone else heard similar?

Homologation issues would fit into this category, which does seem to crop up quite regularly on this forum and fb groups. Given nobody visiting their vehicle at a dealer has reported seeing their Cert of Conformity lends some credence to this being an issue. Or IA’s admin is late in issuing them which is entirely possible.

 

[Tom D]

Just had a chat with my dealer in the UK as I wait for my IG. Obviously there were chip delays, then in all probability some software issues - But he was saying that there were some Regulatory / Compliance issues preventing cars being sold in UK and Europe - He described it as 'red tape' and wasn't concerned by it - who knows...... More speculation, rumour or fact. Anyone else heard similar?

I suspect that this is the real reason - compliance. I can’t see why IA would want cars piling up at dealers and customers getting angry. If it were a parts issue they would likely either get the replacement parts fitted asap or let the cars go out and re-call them for the upgrade later. Red tape would be a more likely contender. With the amount of lobbying power the likes of VW group and the French auto manufacturers have I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t stirred the pot with the desk jockeys in Brussels

 

[bemax]

I suspect that this is the real reason - compliance. I can’t see why IA would want cars piling up at dealers and customers getting angry. If it were a parts issue they would likely either get the replacement parts fitted asap or let the cars go out and re-call them for the upgrade later. Red tape would be a more likely contender. With the amount of lobbying power the likes of VW group and the French auto manufacturers have I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t stirred the pot with the desk jockeys in Brussels

I don’t think Ineos needs other manufacturers to screw it up. What possible benefit would someone have?

 

[DCPU]

I don’t think Ineos needs other manufacturers to help screw it up.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Tom D]

I don’t think Ineos needs other manufacturers to screw it up. What possible benefit would someone have?

Well like the JLR case, they’ll try and mess with one another if they can…
Imagine if the grenadier launch is a disaster, recalls, safety issues and the like. That will hurt sales for sure. And fore every grenadier not bought something else will be.

I actually think that a lot of the emissions regulations that the EU has seen over recent years were designed to make it harder for ROW suppliers to sell into the EU. And so when the Chinese get the hang of euro4 out comes euro5 and so on. Its certainly stopped China and India exporting to the EU to a large extent.

 

[trobex]

Given all the non compliant mods carried out on 4X4s is Australia, IA could just send the Gren over and they would still be more road legal than half the custom butchery jobs I see driving around. Problem solved! Still waiting on contract...

 

[Fidei Defensor]

I was told they are doing extremely thorough inspections of the first 1300-1500 production vehicles so they can make any modifications needed to the production line
So if they find the left rear door has slightly different panel gaps than others they can adjust the robot so it stops happening
If you multiply this across hundreds/thousands of components then it takes a lot of time.
I assume the ones that have gone out have been inspected and any changes made.
If they have discovered software/firmware issue that needs changes made then these changes would need to be thoroughly tested to see what flow on effect they have.
about 3 years ago I received a letter from Mercedes telling me they needed to update the firmware on my car as they had found an issue
I needed to bring it in and it would take them 30 minutes
My car was 5 years old at that stage and way out of warranty
I assume Ineos doesn't load the firmware at the factory and instead it comes pre-loaded from the component manufacturer
It would be easy for Ineos to put the update in the vehicles on the production line but the ones sitting outside or in dealers would be harder

They just need to "f;lash" the software, just like you do an update to your computer software. At the recent Grenadier "meet" at Tampa, one of the Ineos demonstrators told me they had had a number of "flashes" since they stsrted the US drives...... No problem doing this in the dealership...

 

[DCPU]

I thought there was a general issue with this. "A flash device has a finite lifespan based on how many times you can erase and write to its sectors."

Why is NAND Endurance a Problem for Car Manufacturers? - Aurora Labs

All the code running advanced driver assist systems (ADAS), infotainment, performance features, and other core functionalities of a vehicle is stored on the flash memory of NAND chips. You'll no doubt have seen how the current chip shortage is affecting the automotive market, but there's another...

www.auroralabs.com

 

[Eric]

I thought there was a general issue with this. "A flash device has a finite lifespan based on how many times you can erase and write to its sectors."

Why is NAND Endurance a Problem for Car Manufacturers? - Aurora Labs

All the code running advanced driver assist systems (ADAS), infotainment, performance features, and other core functionalities of a vehicle is stored on the flash memory of NAND chips. You'll no doubt have seen how the current chip shortage is affecting the automotive market, but there's another...

www.auroralabs.com

Potential Grenadier owners can fail after prolonged waiting ☹

 

[Bushguide]

So far Ive seen almost every excuse possible for the situation with the Grenadier except "The Dog Ate my Homework" They drove a million miles to test out the vehicle and now after almost five months of production, not one person has possession of their vehicle. They sit in the car yard of distributers, with the customers, money in hand, looking from outside the fence. There are little glimpses of final production vehicles on loan doing tours of Scotland or being fitted at an aftermarket accessory joint, but nothing with a vehicle in the customers/owners hands. Ineos have vehicles which are registered here in OZ, allowing sporting people to drive "Off Road" but never on the grey matter. Those same vehicles can be driven from town to town by Ineos employees, but not the people who really matter. They are allowed to only drive it Off Road also. Even vehicles that are coming off the production line right now today or yesterday fail to get handed over to their respective new owners. There is some legal embargo going on here I suspect, and its got zero to do with software upgrades.

 

[DaveB]

So far Ive seen almost every excuse possible for the situation with the Grenadier except "The Dog Ate my Homework" They drove a million miles to test out the vehicle and now after almost five months of production, not one person has possession of their vehicle. They sit in the car yard of distributers, with the customers, money in hand, looking from outside the fence. There are little glimpses of final production vehicles on loan doing tours of Scotland or being fitted at an aftermarket accessory joint, but nothing with a vehicle in the customers/owners hands. Ineos have vehicles which are registered here in OZ, allowing sporting people to drive "Off Road" but never on the grey matter. Those same vehicles can be driven from town to town by Ineos employees, but not the people who really matter. They are allowed to only drive it Off Road also. Even vehicles that are coming off the production line right now today or yesterday fail to get handed over to their respective new owners. There is some legal embargo going on here I suspect, and its got zero to do with software upgrades.

Who would possibly believe the dog ate my homework
I got away with the goat ate my homework
But we all know goats will eat anything