How many cars have been built?

[mcdoogs]

I think we should applaud what Ineos has done. Let's put it in perspective. Tesla sold 2450 of their first generation car, a 2 seater between 2008 and 2012. Tesla launched model S in 2012 and sold 3000. In four years, Tesla sold 5450 cars total. In 2013 they sold 20k cars. Tesla did not become a profitable company until 2020. So 12 years before they became profitable.

We love as a group to toss around numbers but I wanted to add some color on how well Ineos has done since delivering their first vehicle.

I agree on the principle that Ineos has impressed. A bit of an apples to oranges comparison though given that Ineos didn't also need to develop a new electric powertrain or battery tech as the first player in a whole new automotive segment. That means Ineos was famously able to leverage engineering and components from some very big players in the automotive industry (Magna Steyr, BMW, ZF, etc)

But still, Ineos have definitely done a great job and have sold a very healthy number of their first production product.

 

[Zimm]

Yea... ah, tesla was perceived as a golf cart version of a lotus with 1/2 the advertised range, no charging network and no dealer network. This is a traditional car designed by a car designer, using established dealers in an established car plant using an established drive train. This really could be a BMW model. I see no similarity other than 4 wheels.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I agree. A bit of an apples to oranges comparison given that Ineos didn't also need to develop a new electric powertrain or battery tech as the first player in a whole new automotive segment. That means Ineos was famously able to leverage engineering and components from some very big players in the automotive industry (Magna Steyr, BMW, ZF, etc)

But still, Ineos have definitely done a great job and have sold a very healthy number of their first production product.

Agree but let's put a different lens on it. Tesla developed a car that was focus on a small segment of the market. People that wanted a 2 seater sports car similar to a lotus Elise. Tesla didn't create the battery or electric car concept. Tesla also received 465 million loan from the department of energy

 

[mcdoogs]

Agree but let's put a different lens on it. Tesla developed a car that was focus on a small segment of the market. People that wanted a 2 seater sports car similar to a lotus Elise. Tesla didn't create the battery or electric car concept. Tesla also received 465 million loan from the department of energy

Ok you win. Given recent events I'm not going to spend any more time defending Tesla. Also the model S looked cool in 2012, in 2024 their whole line is fugly af.

What a world where the petro-chemical CEO billionaire is less detestable than the EV CEO billionaire, but here we are.

 

[DaveB]

A few weeks after I picked mine up, but the difference between what Lynn Calder said, 24,000 and fewer than 20,000 is a huge gap. 18%?

Thi message says "on the road" which should mean in the hands of owners.
That would be different to manufactured as that would include in transit and at dealers.

 

[DaveB]

Ok you win. Given recent events I'm not going to spend any more time defending Tesla. Also the model S looked cool in 2012, in 2024 their whole line is fugly af.

What a world where the petro-chemical CEO billionaire is less detestable than the EV CEO billionaire, but here we are.

How could you possibly say the Cyber truck is ugly???????

Personally I think it would have to improve massively to even achieve ugly

 

[Michael_in_Baja]

Thi message says "on the road" which should mean in the hands of owners.
That would be different to manufactured as that would include in transit and at dealers.

I thought peehaps it was semantics as well but 4,000 vehicles in progress or just floating about seems ambitious. Maybe.

 

[DaveB]

I thought peehaps it was semantics as well but 4,000 vehicles in progress or just floating about seems ambitious. Maybe.

That's about 50 days production for them at the rate they were going last reported on here. or 35 days if they have about 1,000 sitting at dealers and already in transit.
At least it sounds feasible and not just a made up number.

 

[Jacket88]

I placed an order in late June 2024. The original estimated delivery was Dec 2024. It is currently showing General Assembly started with a VIN XXXX23502.

 

[rockytop1]

I can say I just drove off the dealer lot in Atlanta and there are Grenadiers stacked everywhere. Did not count but has to be well over 100. Maybe they are happily waiting on their owners but I got a sense that inventory is building. There is an overhang of several vehicles that were "abandoned" by original buyers who eventually bailed after the long wait. I got on the forum today just to see if there was some "bad news" about the vehicle driving buyers away. Mine is in getting a windshield water leak repaired for the 3rd attempt.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I can say I just drove off the dealer lot in Atlanta and there are Grenadiers stacked everywhere. Did not count but has to be well over 100. Maybe they are happily waiting on their owners but I got a sense that inventory is building. There is an overhang of several vehicles that were "abandoned" by original buyers who eventually bailed after the long wait. I got on the forum today just to see if there was some "bad news" about the vehicle driving buyers away. Mine is in getting a windshield water leak repaired for the 3rd attempt.

I'm so glad you said something. I drove past a Subaru dealer in my neighborhood and it was packed full of Subies. Also, saw Toyota dealership with so many vehicles on the lot. I went to the website and it said Kirkland Toyota has 362 new Toyota from2024 to 2025 models. I've been looking around to see if Toyota is bankrupt, have you heard anything?

 

[HereinDaRockies]

I'm so glad you said something. I drove past a Subaru dealer in my neighborhood and it was packed full of Subies. Also, saw Toyota dealership with so many vehicles on the lot. I went to the website and it said Kirkland Toyota has 362 new Toyota from2024 to 2025 models. I've been looking around to see if Toyota is bankrupt, have you heard anything?

Huh? Subaru and Toyota are volume brands.. Ineos is as boutique as they come. How is a lot full of Toyotas painting a rosy picture for where Ineos is currently at?

 

[C-Mack]

Unfortunately, there are a myriad of factors slowing sales down across the auto industry.

Automotive loan interest rates are still higher relative to pre-covid market, low values on trade-ins, folks upside down on existing loans due to rapid vehicle depreciation and paying dealer markups, lower consumer credit ratings and loan defaults, higher vehicle insurance rates, once reliable brands now suffering from quality issues and recalls, less than compelling models on the market, downsized engine capacities and overly complicated hybrid systems not fully delivering on performance & efficiency on some vehicle models, stubbornly high MSRPs relative to vehicle features & quality.

Other factors included, flat wages, various industry lay-offs & downsizing, general political uncertainty, looming tariff complications, inflation cutting into discretionary spending, low personal savings, overall cost of living remains high, folks trying to save money for home purchases, etc…

The average length of new vehicle ownership used to be 2 to 4 years and now 5 to 7+ years is the new normal. Unless your pockets are deep or vehicles are just a fun hobby you have to be very deliberate about your next vehicle purchase. Nobody wants to continue to overpay and deal with less than stellar quality especially at todays asking prices for just about any brand at the moment.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Huh? Subaru and Toyota are volume brands.. Ineos is as boutique as they come. How is a lot full of Toyotas painting a rosy picture for where Ineos is currently at?

It's a sarcastic post.

 

[Tazzieman]

It's a sarcastic post.

If you know, you know

 

[AWo]

However, the thing is not if the Grenadier is good or bad, you like it or not. These things are related to feelings, speculations, etc.
If the stock builds up, what you can see at some dealers, that is nothing else than a fact. Whatever the reason is behind that, whatever you think about that. Facts don't care about oppinions.

It can also be a fact, that they are sold cars waiting for their owners. But it can also be the case that their a brought back. Or both. And now someone needs to take the dealer behaviour into the calculation. Or check parts orders at the suppliers, if you know one. At least in Germany you see cheap finance offers (1,99%), special versions with lowered prices etc. Everybody is free to draw his own conclusions.

AWo