Hey there - stuck between restored 110 and Grenadier

[Sam]

Nostalgia just makes for melancholy I find. Look forwards, not backwards - get the Grenadier.

Many on here literally just sold their old Defenders to get a Grenadier

 

[Cheshire cat]

I recently visited a well known Land Rover rebuild specialist. Their work is amazing and if you want a 600 Hp LWB old style Defender, they do them.
Outside was a beautiful V8 powered (American crate motor), Auto, SWB 90 in a mint green with tan leather interior and just sold at £140,000!! ‘One Hundred & Forty Thousand Pounds’.
I asked could I take a look. The owner of the business was more than happy to show me. The rain had stopped and the sun was coming out. He opened the door to show the high end interior. I don’t think he intended for me to see the patch of damp carpet where the door seal never works or for me to pick up on the very familiar, utilitarian noise from the door being shut once interior inspection was complete. It was at that point I knew for sure that I had made the right decision in opting for the Grenadier.
Best case scenario: My Defender plus maybe £30,000 spent at this high rep’ restorer and my vehicle, as great as they are, would not be a patch on my Grenadier.

 

[James]

I endorse pretty much everything said by people who have owned the defenders. I loved both my 2a and 110 300tdi, which only went as the gren arrived.
i still love them.
if, and only if, you are buying one to use occasionally, and because you love the history and the simplcity, then it is not insane. Eccentric, individual, but not silly.
however, very few people would actually choose that having experienced the grenadier, because it ticks so many of the same boxes in a modern context, and is easy to live with.
even when i got my 110, in the late 90s, I felt that it should have been updated, as per the then excellent g-wagen.
so if you go the grenadier, you can use it every day for work, or even for pleasure. On the other hand, it will lose value, a good old 110 might appreciate (depends on how much you spend on resto of course…)

good luck!

 

[JackieTreehorn]

I have an old Defender 110(1991) with new Cummins R2.8T, a new 2020 Defender 110 and have been 'test driving' the Grenadier for the past week. All totally different vehicles. Nostalgia ……………. If you are driving it offroad and long distances, the new Grenadier is way better.

Everything spikemd said is correct.
Perfectly said.
I’ve owned 3 ROW Defender 110s, including a daily driver that had an NAS exo cage from ECR, 300TDi, etc….it was truly a great truck and one that I built over the course of 3 years.
I could spend days explaining why you don’t want an original D110, but just trust me, get the Grenadier…..it’s everything the Defender should have evolved into.
I also have a new Defender, but let’s not compare that, it’s not even the same. I feel like I am driving a Maytag. Comfortable, idiot proof but it’s just an over complicated lifestyle brand, not a tool or a truck.

Over my 15 years of Defender ownership and experiences, I can’t even count how many times I’ve had this conversation with people that want one. Maybe there have been 3 people that I felt were the right fit for a Defender, the rest just bought one anyway, and suffered (financially and ergonomically).
i was hard core, i worked on my own truck and was committed Defender guy, but in the end its really a farm tractor that we try to make comfortable.

 

[JackieTreehorn]

….if you are a hard core doomsday prepper that envisions water shortages, EMP surges that destroy computers, and zombies with pitchforks, then by all means go hard and commit to a 300tdi defender that would run on axle grease thinned with #2 heating oil in a pinch.
Otherwise, just go with the Grenadier. I can see the thought, purpose and passion that was put into the Grenadier.
Land Rover has been mailing it in for decades, drafting off their prole drift image value.

 

[Eyedogtor]

Everything spikemd said is correct.
Perfectly said.
I’ve owned 3 ROW Defender 110s, including a daily driver that had an NAS exo cage from ECR, 300TDi, etc….it was truly a great truck and one that I built over the course of 3 years.
I could spend days explaining why you don’t want an original D110, but just trust me, get the Grenadier…..it’s everything the Defender should have evolved into.
I also have a new Defender, but let’s not compare that, it’s not even the same. I feel like I am driving a Maytag. Comfortable, idiot proof but it’s just an over complicated lifestyle brand, not a tool or a truck.

Over my 15 years of Defender ownership and experiences, I can’t even count how many times I’ve had this conversation with people that want one. Maybe there have been 3 people that I felt were the right fit for a Defender, the rest just bought one anyway, and suffered (financially and ergonomically).
i was hard core, i worked on my own truck and was committed Defender guy, but in the end its really a farm tractor that we try to make comfortable.

Thanks very much to everyone - makes a ton of sense! It does seem that almost every Vintage Restored Defender on Bring a Trailer (or any anuction site) has only been with the current owner for 9-12 months before the list it.....a telling stat.

 

[stickshifter]

I have an old Defender 110(1991) with new Cummins R2.8T, a new 2020 Defender 110 and have been 'test driving' the Grenadier for the past week. All totally different vehicles. Nostalgia for the old 110 led me to import one from Spain and have been working the past 5 years modfiying it. But now it sits on 37s and is a beast. The new 110 is refined and shares little with the old Defender other than the name. Comfortable, spacious and amazingly capable offroad with elec locking rear diff. It has seen many miles offroad as that is the main reason I bought it. After driving the Grenadier the past few days, it truly feels like an updated old 110. Sitting position is higher than new 110, looks so much like the old one, its uncanny. Not quite as smooth as new 110 but its coils and feels very solid. Took it on some dirt breifly and soaks up the bumps. The new D110 is fully electronic (54+ computers!) which makes things convenient, all the lane departure, adaptive cruise, phone integration, big screens, etc. The Grenadier was purposely built without those elctronic nannies and ideally should be more reliable in the future. You are engaged when driving it. It feels like it has more soul. I am excited about it and its a bold truck not built for the masses. I think it is the most perfect new overlanding vehicle out there.

My buddy does LS swaps on restored old Defenders/Arkonik vehicles (50+ trucks). I have seen tons and driven many $100k to $200k+ vehicles he has built. While so much better than when they came out of the factory, again, different machine entirely. 99% of those trucks will never see dirt. The have put sound deadening, new interiors and plenty of power into the old vehicles. But they still have the atrocious ergonomics of the original. New Scheelman seats helps immensely but I had to cut and modify my seatbox to fit properly. If you are just driving it for show, a resto-mod old Defender is awesome. If you are driving it offroad and long distances, the new Grenadier is way better.

I agree with your overall assessment, but the Grenadier is not lacking for electronic assistance features. Here is a copy & paste from the U.S. Brochure. There are a bunch of electronics listed here; the bottom four of which I'm pretty sure qualify as "electronic nannies":

(1) intelligent speed assist
(2) lane departure warning
(3) automatic emergency braking
(4) driver drowsiness detection

 

[Trialmaster]

Hello all,

Great to meet everyone. I'm up in New England (Maine and Massachusetts) and had been planning for the last two years to order a restored 110 through a UK based group that I have developed a good relationship with over the past year. I love the idea of the history of the Defender, the fact that it is purpose-built, the looks and uniqueness...etc.

Last year when I read more about the Grenadier, I put a deposit down just in case......Well, yesterday I went and say one and did a full test-drive and now I'm stuck, because I really do like it. I ordered a well optioned Trialmaster in Magic Muchroom, and part of me thought after seeing one in the wild and driving it, I would scratch it off the list - but that didn't happen. While it lacks the history and vinatge character of the Defender (I'm a Veterinarian, so I always think James Herriot when I see one), it has a lot of the attributes I'm looking for....so It's tough.

I currently drive a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon unlimited and an Audi RS7 (I'd keep the Jeep because I do love it), so this would be a true additional car. Price would be about $98k for the Grenadier, the Resto would be about $30-$40k more if done the way I want it.

I know it SEEMS crazy to cross shop the two vehicles, but I just read a R&T article, and I guess it actually isn't that uncommon. Anyone else been in this position...and thoughts? I know I just need to decide, but thought I would share.

Regardless, it's wonderful to meet everyone and learn from you all - awesome forum and community,

Do what makes you feel good. I can see the attraction of a restomod 110, but it will always be a compromised vehicle and it doesn't meet current legislation. My money would go on anything else including a Grenadier.

 

[Tom109]

Everyone should have a 110, or Series Land Rover. That is the simple solution. The problem is the 110 cost of entry when compared to a potentially more usable/practical vehicle. For me, that choice didn't exist until the Grenadier.

I will not part with my Series 109 though, ever.

 

[Tomdoc]

I have had multiple LR Defenders SII, SIII, 90s, 110, Puma, XTech. My first was at age 18 when I had 24V FFR SWB Air-portable Lightweight. I loved them all. Then JLR stopped making Defenders. I am now 56 and yearn to re-live the feeling of a truly soulful 4x4 that makes me smile every time I see it and grin when get in it, the IG has come at the perfect time for me. Do I miss the lack of elbow room and hot rivets and oil drops - of course!! Do I miss the crazy noises and leaks, the snow in the back, the corrosion? Of course!! But now I have a modern equivalent that sates my appetite for a rugged vehicle which allows me to drive it most places, feel safe and at long last, rest my right elbow!!

 

[bemax]

I told my wife to sell the 110 after I purchase the Grenadier. And I really thought I would do so by then. Now I find myself arguing with myself what time period „after“ means exactly. Is fifty years an appropriate timeframe?

 

[Tom109]

I told my wife to sell the 110 after I purchase the Grenadier. And I really thought I would do so by then. Now I find myself arguing with myself what time period „after“ means exactly. Is fifty years an appropriate timeframe?

I am in exactly the same situation with my ‘95 RRC.

 

[stickshifter]

Hello all,

Great to meet everyone. I'm up in New England (Maine and Massachusetts) and had been planning for the last two years to order a restored 110 through a UK based group that I have developed a good relationship with over the past year. I love the idea of the history of the Defender, the fact that it is purpose-built, the looks and uniqueness...etc.

Last year when I read more about the Grenadier, I put a deposit down just in case......Well, yesterday I went and say one and did a full test-drive and now I'm stuck, because I really do like it. I ordered a well optioned Trialmaster in Magic Muchroom, and part of me thought after seeing one in the wild and driving it, I would scratch it off the list - but that didn't happen. While it lacks the history and vinatge character of the Defender (I'm a Veterinarian, so I always think James Herriot when I see one), it has a lot of the attributes I'm looking for....so It's tough.

I currently drive a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon unlimited and an Audi RS7 (I'd keep the Jeep because I do love it), so this would be a true additional car. Price would be about $98k for the Grenadier, the Resto would be about $30-$40k more if done the way I want it.

I know it SEEMS crazy to cross shop the two vehicles, but I just read a R&T article, and I guess it actually isn't that uncommon. Anyone else been in this position...and thoughts? I know I just need to decide, but thought I would share.

Regardless, it's wonderful to meet everyone and learn from you all - awesome forum and community,

I've gone through a similar conversation in my head, but about a Landcruiser 80-series (engine swap, transmission swap, axle-reinforcement or swap, etc.). For me, the motivation to restore an older vehicle is to avoid the active safety nannies in the Grenadier (and all forthcoming vehicles in North America), and have a more "analogue" vehicle. For various reasons - some of which I understand and some of which kind of tick me off - the Grenadier did not end up being as analogue as I had expected it would be. The hazard of expectations...

From my perspective, some of these new safety systems represent a level of government over-reach to which I am deeply opposed. I swore that I would never buy a vehicle with this level of electronic nanny, and it is a testament to how much I like the Grenadier that I am still considering it. But practically speaking, there is no comparison - the Grenadier makes much more sense than restoring a 30-year old vehicle (all new, factory warranty, quiet, comfortable, capable, etc.).

That's just how I look at it. Lots of other folk see it differently.

 

[Catpaw4x4]

Hello all,

Great to meet everyone. I'm up in New England (Maine and Massachusetts) and had been planning for the last two years to order a restored 110 through a UK based group that I have developed a good relationship with over the past year. I love the idea of the history of the Defender, the fact that it is purpose-built, the looks and uniqueness...etc.

Last year when I read more about the Grenadier, I put a deposit down just in case......Well, yesterday I went and say one and did a full test-drive and now I'm stuck, because I really do like it. I ordered a well optioned Trialmaster in Magic Muchroom, and part of me thought after seeing one in the wild and driving it, I would scratch it off the list - but that didn't happen. While it lacks the history and vinatge character of the Defender (I'm a Veterinarian, so I always think James Herriot when I see one), it has a lot of the attributes I'm looking for....so It's tough.

I currently drive a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon unlimited and an Audi RS7 (I'd keep the Jeep because I do love it), so this would be a true additional car. Price would be about $98k for the Grenadier, the Resto would be about $30-$40k more if done the way I want it.

I know it SEEMS crazy to cross shop the two vehicles, but I just read a R&T article, and I guess it actually isn't that uncommon. Anyone else been in this position...and thoughts? I know I just need to decide, but thought I would share.

Regardless, it's wonderful to meet everyone and learn from you all - awesome forum and community,

I was in a nearly identical position 2+ yrs ago. The youngest Defender that could be imported / modified /etc into the US due to rules/regulations/ safety laws etc was 25 yrs. Learned about the "G" that day. Came home, researched and within 4 hrs had placed my reservation. The "older" defenders are great in their own way and have incredible character that truly can not be "reproduced". The "G" is giving us the new character that will be as iconic as the Defender in the years to come.
I have a 96 5 sp manual Discovery. The same Mechanic for 22 yrs and is the only reason why she still runs! (with 278K miles) For 17 yrs she was my daily drive. I understand why people state they want to be buried in their car. She fits hand in glove with me. She's now my Sunday drive. I will not give her up. I am looking forward thought to her cousin joining the household soon.
Every time I see a classic Defender there will always be the "want". That's in the heart.... Being head smart and realistic for modern times, the "G" is my modern Defender with great character!
Cheers!

 

[Catpaw4x4]

Unfortunately you can't legally import a Defender with a new frame. Therefore, if you're importing a turn key Defender, you'll have to pay crazy prices for a frame resto on top of everything else which I don't think is worth it except for a true family heirloom (you don't have one) or little Juey despite what the collectors claim.

I think it's faster, simpler and less costly to do the work statesside and swap the parts to a new frame with the vehicle sitting right next to it. Plus, unless you know Defender minutiae well you'll invariably end up with a hodge-podge mixture of parts from various years/types/models/countries of origin all covered up with a fancy paint job. It's how restoration shops work. Even the very best houses do this despite claiming they don't unless you're there everyday watching the process. Once you tire of it your "restored" LR will end up in someone else's hands leaving them to sort out the mess. They will curse you and your progeny ever after.

Importing an unrestored one is just as dangerous. You'll never know what you're really buying until after the dollars trade hands - if ever. I'd suggest you go drive a few documented NAS Defenders in good condition then see how much it will cost to turn one into the vehicle you really want it to be. Then add XX% for surprises.

Or you could buy a Grenadier.

Very well said!!!

 

[TomE]

Hello all,

Great to meet everyone. I'm up in New England (Maine and Massachusetts) and had been planning for the last two years to order a restored 110 through a UK based group that I have developed a good relationship with over the past year. I love the idea of the history of the Defender, the fact that it is purpose-built, the looks and uniqueness...etc.

Last year when I read more about the Grenadier, I put a deposit down just in case......Well, yesterday I went and say one and did a full test-drive and now I'm stuck, because I really do like it. I ordered a well optioned Trialmaster in Magic Muchroom, and part of me thought after seeing one in the wild and driving it, I would scratch it off the list - but that didn't happen. While it lacks the history and vinatge character of the Defender (I'm a Veterinarian, so I always think James Herriot when I see one), it has a lot of the attributes I'm looking for....so It's tough.

I currently drive a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon unlimited and an Audi RS7 (I'd keep the Jeep because I do love it), so this would be a true additional car. Price would be about $98k for the Grenadier, the Resto would be about $30-$40k more if done the way I want it.

I know it SEEMS crazy to cross shop the two vehicles, but I just read a R&T article, and I guess it actually isn't that uncommon. Anyone else been in this position...and thoughts? I know I just need to decide, but thought I would share.

Regardless, it's wonderful to meet everyone and learn from you all - awesome forum and community,

Understand the way you’re questioning yourself.

I’ve had nothing but rovers in my stable since 1989 and it was hard to add a new brand…unproven at this point….to the stable.

Just buy it and if over time don’t like….sell it!!!

 

[JackieTreehorn]

I agree with your overall assessment, but the Grenadier is not lacking for electronic assistance features. Here is a copy & paste from the U.S. Brochure. There are a bunch of electronics listed here; the bottom four of which I'm pretty sure qualify as "electronic nannies":

(1) intelligent speed assist
(2) lane departure warning
(3) automatic emergency braking
(4) driver drowsiness detection

View attachment 7838612

I haven't looked at threads yet, but clearly we will need to circumvent this ridiculous overreach and jailbreak the ADAS somehow.
I can't live like this.

 

[Cheshire cat]

After one year of ownership, still loving my Grenadier. Haven’t as yet sold my Defender but no real desire to go back. Even seeing the work carried out by some amazing firms such as ECD Design in Florida, Helderberg USA, Mahker, Arkonik in UK to name a very few. These companies do a magnificent job however, they start with an essentially vintage vehicle.
Watching a documentary by Truckman on YouTube, featuring ECD. I wish Sir Jim had approached them to deal with Customer Service & Quality Control at Ineos.

 

[Zimm]

The best hing about my D110NAS, outside of it being super cool looking, was selling it mint with 50,000 miles and getting twice what I paid for it. The stock AC was only capable of 10deg below ambient, and being 6'4", it was the most uncomfortable exhausting POS to drive ever. Even though I prefer manuals, I keep coveting a D90 with an autobox thinking my arse won't cramp up if I don't need to work a clutch. I'm sure it's an illusion, but a boy can dream. If you've never lived with one, I can see why you would shop both at this pricepoint, being the 110 will hold value better, but, DD'ing it, and winters will destroy it.

The high end modernized defenders are fine dresses on pigs. The stick on leather interiors with over the top quilting remind of '60's italian supercar crap. I see those interiors and look at the owner and I see a mark for a grifter. There's really no getting around the underpinnings being craptastic. I think the sweet spot for defenders in the US is still the driver quality NAS, that way you can enjoy it for what it is, and not be bothered when suddenly the AC slider falls off in you hands, or you have to drive in the rain with the windows open for fresh air.

 

[Tom109]

I’ve never owned a 90/110 but do have my ‘65 109. What I like best about it is complete lack of modernity. I have not yet sold my original low-mileage RRC, but I certainly will.