3rd party Videos Harrys Garage

[longwhiteline98]

Thought I would chime in as a perspective USA buyer and new Defender owner. I'm leaning towards being out on this one if I'm honest. Not because of Harry's review, but because I'm not sure the end product aligns with what Inneos originally sought out to do. I was hoping this would be a simple vehicle - no pesky electronics to throw seemingly random codes or something that would be repairable on the trail. But, in the end, it seems to share the same error-prone electronics as my Defender without the greater comforts/features my P400 L663 provides at a cheaper cost. My Defender has been dead-nuts reliable for the past 50,000 miles, and I've taken it pretty far off the grid in stock configuration (w/ 19" Duratracs). It has forded considerably deep water crossings, mud, dirt, snow, and some semi-technical rock crawling. I think Inneos has an identity crisis with the Grenadier - it is not simple or cheap enough to call it a bare-bones off-roader yet it lacks the features that may justify all those computers and costs.

 

[DenisM]

Harry knows cars - his review was OK.

He highlighted the trade-off between on & off road - it is NOT a fine line b/w the two.

In effect he was saying: Are you prepared to sacrifice steering responsiveness & turning circle & gain extra weight and solid axle ride to get the best off road manners?

Yes if you drive a lot off road but the more you drive on road maybe harder to keep saying yes. What if you drive 90% on sealed roads?

In many parts of the greater urban (and inner city) Brisbane there's not a lot of difference between a "sealed road" and an outback track... The Grenadier will be a welcome relief over (unavoidable) low profile tyres which came standard on a recent purchase... I'm about to swap out the standard 19"wheels on wife's Subaru for a set of 17" surplus wheels/higher profile tyres. That way I'm hoping the amalgam fillings in my teeth will stay in place for a while longer!

 

[Camskii]

Valid points
It is also impacted by what other vehicles you own, or is this your only vehicle
How long are you planning to keep it?
Many people trade at end of warranty or before, others are looking at this vehicle lasting for 20+ years.
There is no way I would let a JLR product get out of warranty as they are proven to be unreliable.
The Grenadier hasn't been proven to be long term reliable or unreliable.

Agree. Im sure the Defender is lovely to drive both on and offroad but no way in well you want to own it in a few years out of warranty. I had a D4 that I sold because the upkeep was getting astronomical and that was before things started to break on it.

I have owned a Ford Everest now for 6 years and it is fantastic to drive on road and has been terrific off as well. But I am a bit bored of it now and looking forward to actually "driving" something instead of putting on the lane keeping assist, cruise control and just sitting there. That is what steered me away from the LC300. Great car, but boring. Each to their own

 

[DenisM]

One more thing:
There's another important point here: Harry is doing a "review"...for what purpose? He's entitled to his biases etc, and good on him, but he's not reviewing it on the basis of similar motives as the rest of us... it's a very important distinction.

Compare that with many of the "personal reviewers" on this forum: We had a long term 'intent/plan', we saw the (Grenadier) concept and matched the two when it became apparent that it filled several criteria, all of which aligned with Sir Jim R's vision of a classic Deefer replacement.

We paid money, drove it and some have taken delivery ...None of the latter have (so far) expressed 'buyer's remorse'...some frustration perhaps at minor stuff... but no show stoppers.

As a crude analogy: For Harry (dare I say)...it's a 'one night/week stand'... whereas for buyers/owners it's a long term commitment....! totally different perspectives

 

[das mo]

I am very confused about people having trouble steering this one for what it is.
Been driving through few small villages in the countryside yesterday. Many tight spots on single lane. Very relaxed. As long as you do not need to turn.
But you know what you drive and adapt. When you drive a Smart you surely take other decisions.
I love it so far. And will love it even more when software gets fixed.

 

[Davman]

In many parts of the greater urban (and inner city) Brisbane there's not a lot of difference between a "sealed road" and an outback track... The Grenadier will be a welcome relief over (unavoidable) low profile tyres which came standard on a recent purchase... I'm about to swap out the standard 19"wheels on wife's Subaru for a set of 17" surplus wheels/higher profile tyres. That way I'm hoping the amalgam fillings in my teeth will stay in place for a while longer!

Most of the "sealed" roads in Oz at the moment, are almost as bad as the gravel road that I live on - at least its easy to grade a gravel road.
I will happily drive around the country knowing that I wont have to worry about the far majority of road conditions that I come across, or trying to duck and weave the many "potholes" around the place.

I drove past a stretch of my highway a few months ago, and there were about 3-4 passenger cars parked on the side of the road. About 300 metres up the road, I watched as a new victim sunk into a pot hole and its hubcap came flying off - no doubt ready to join the other cars at the side of the road putting their spare tyre on.

 

[grenadierboy]

Valid points
It is also impacted by what other vehicles you own, or is this your only vehicle
How long are you planning to keep it?
Many people trade at end of warranty or before, others are looking at this vehicle lasting for 20+ years.
There is no way I would let a JLR product get out of warranty as they are proven to be unreliable.
The Grenadier hasn't been proven to be long term reliable or unreliable.

Agree Dave.

I have been been surprised by the number of members who have said it's going to be their "forever car", (especially without using it).

I have a more suck it and see approach where I could potentially off load it after 1 year or 10 years or never.
Stage 1 (12-24 months): Initial assessment against my expectations, requirements and overall useability
Stage 2 (during warranty period): Are reliability & maintenance levels meeting expectations
Stage 3: Assess newer Grenadier or other manufacturer off road models as they arise

p.s. I really hoping he didn't mention the unmentionable for RHD's but he did and I didn't like it but......

 

[grenadierboy]

Most of the "sealed" roads in Oz at the moment, are almost as bad as the gravel road that I live on - at least its easy to grade a gravel road.
I will happily drive around the country knowing that I wont have to worry about the far majority of road conditions that I come across, or trying to duck and weave the many "potholes" around the place.

I drove past a stretch of my highway a few months ago, and there were about 3-4 passenger cars parked on the side of the road. About 300 meters up the road, I watched as a new victim sunk into a pot hole and its hubcap came flying off - no doubt ready to join the other cars at the side of the road putting their spare tyre on.

I totally agree.
My family are in East Gippsland. Roads there have always been sub-par but are now horrendous since the last 3 years of heavy rainfall (with most of our $$$ going to city roads and train tunnels) they have not been maintained. Even closer to home - terrible on the east side of Mornington peninsular were we have a summer house - only 100km from a 5 million person city FFS

 

[RavenVoice]

People need to realise that a lot of the motoring press here in the UK either have ties to JLR or simply have an unwavering loyalty to the Land Rover heritage/brand & want to dislike the Grenadier no matter how good it is. There was always going to be a vehement support of JLR at the expense of the Grenadier by the motoring press establishment & most UK reviewers will just fall in line with this. I’m waiting to see if Clarkson has the balls to fly in the face of that though as if anyone’s big enough to be able to go against the grain & be honest, whatever the fallout, it’s him.

As for Harry’s review - it came across to me like he was surprised at how nice to drive it was & therefore had to clutch at straws in order to justify coming to a negative conclusion. He basically just regurgitated the same negativity that he’s already heard from others, whilst simultaneously failing to even mention the many standout features of the Grenadier (ie. a supposed car enthusiast yet he failed to talk about the mechanical build quality or even show the engine bay) & glossing over the many failings/problems that ALL new Land Rovers have (his beloved new Defender included). I thought it was also very interesting that, in his efforts to dismiss the Grenadier, he had to also dismiss the original Defender (something which JLR won’t mind I guess as they don’t & never did make that vehicle anyway) …that speaks volumes to me. I think he’d made his mind up before he even set eyes on the vehicle &, even if you disagree with me regarding the ulterior motives, you at least have to acknowledge that he clearly doesn’t fall into the same category of motorist as those who’d be interested in the Grenadier in the first place.

Personally, I find it laughable how the British press act like the new Defender is the perfect all-scenario vehicle when anyone with real-world experience would never trust the damn thing given that it’s a rarity to find an owner who hasn’t had serious problems with one. Yes, the Grenadier has software failings/gremlins at the moment; however, there’s a big difference, the software in the Grenadier does not affect the performance/driving of the vehicle (apart from having to make sure you have your seatbelt on). With the Defender everything is software controlled & you’re regularly stuck in limp mode unable to even drive. I know which of the two I’d trust to load up & set off to the back of beyond & it certainly isn’t the one which bears the LR badge!

 

[Wayneos]

Was this guy invited to the Scottish drive launch event/s? No...? Maybe a little sour grape in his cup perhaps! Like ASPW.

 

[Cheshire cat]

Interesting that when reading the comments in Harry’s review, an awful lot of people are desperate to see the Grenadier fail. I don’t get it.

 

[Eric]

Was this guy invited to the Scottish drive launch event/s? No...? Maybe a little sour grape in his cup perhaps! Like ASPW.

Either way ASPW and the like seem to be achieving their ambitions as being portraited as social media influencers. I would hope Grenadier owners rise above the opinions of " influencers" and exercise their own judgement and their outcomes

 

[RavenVoice]

Interesting that when reading the comments in Harry’s review, an awful lot of people are desperate to see the Grenadier fail. I don’t get it.

It’s the alignment that the old boys have with JLR & their loyalty to the heritage brands.

 

[Eric]

Interesting that when reading the comments in Harry’s review, an awful lot of people are desperate to see the Grenadier fail. I don’t get it.

As my post above, it is not the product but they are seen as being able to " influence" the people that matters to them

 

[Tom D]

Regarding the missing screws. It was every other one, not random. So i suspect that they were robbed for something…

 

[Tazzieman]

Regarding the missing screws. It was every other one, not random. So i suspect that they were robbed for something…

He made a mountain out of a molehill. A cringeworthy little snipe.

 

[Trialmaster]

He made a mountain out of a molehill. A cringeworthy little snipe.

BUT, who the hell is in the Press Department, pathetic? A vehicle should not go out for review, in that state. Only gives ammunition to the detractors.

To add, I usually enjoy his vids, but this year his orientation is different, he is banging on a few of his pet projects. He likes JCB's Hydrogen fuelled vehicles. We see him enjoying his pursuits, bikes and adventures with cars more prevalent.

Unusually, his research on the Grenadier was somewhat lacking this time, prices and specification especially so.

 

[Tom D]

I’m not sure why the new defender keeps coming up in reviews of the grenadier. One is a truck / 4x4 the other is an SUV / car. Of course the Grenadier wont handle as well as the defender, it has tractor axles! Of course it wont be as quick, its half a ton heavier with the same power! I’m sure if INEOS wanted to outsell the defender they would have made a completely different vehicle.
Service and reliability are all still to be determined but in terms of design it appears to be exactly what some buyers want.
For a fair review of the Defender try this:

View: https://youtu.be/bh9EQiPcOrE

 

[Spjnr]

For me Harry missed the point in his review. Plus stating the new defender is cheaper than the Grenadier is wrong. He compared a stock 110 d250 with a Trialmaster, which has about 8k of upgrades put on it over stock. Surely you'd compare a 57k station wagon grenny with a 61k stock 110.

I tried to configure a 110 to match my grenadier for offroad equipment, (adding 0 fancy extras) and it came out to 75k

 

[Earthwatcher]

Unlike those of us who own a Grenadier, Harry has nothing vested in this car, no emotions getting in the way, and that's why he should get a fair hearing. I don't like to see people being rubbished in forums just because their view doesn't coincide with your view. I don't see him being attached in any way to JLR and his long term review of the new Defender 90 was far from wholly complimentary. He moaned that it just wasn't big enough and he moaned about the price. The farmers I know don't want to spend £60,000+ on their workhorse. My farmer friend down the lane has just bought an old VW Golf for £1700 from the scrappers and that will be his runabout. He looks after his old Defender 90 and only uses it for shoots, otherwise on the farm he's using tractors for just about everything. He likes the Grenadier but couldn't contemplate owning one for now. Anyway another big trip for my ND coming up - maybe it'll break down and make a lot of people happy, and I will have seen the light. I found something missing today - it needs a big grab handle on the boot to help wash the roof. Meanwhile I'm ordering some of that sill protector tape for the Grenadier; message to self: got to stop treating this car like a piece of porcelain.