Hagerty & Daily Telegraph Reviews (UK)

​

​

2023 Ineos Grenadier review: There’s still work to be done with this workhorse​

2023 Ineos Grenadier review: There's still work to be done with this workhorse | Hagerty UK

After driving the Ineos Grenadier on the road and off the beaten track, Andrew English finds there's still fine-tuning required.

www.hagerty.co.uk

The same reviewer also posts to the Daily Telegraph, reviews combined.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/fe...perfect-reproduction-old-land-rover-defender/

View attachment 7802740

 

[AnD3rew]

View attachment 7802692​

​

2023 Ineos Grenadier review: There’s still work to be done with this workhorse​

2023 Ineos Grenadier review: There's still work to be done with this workhorse | Hagerty UK

After driving the Ineos Grenadier on the road and off the beaten track, Andrew English finds there's still fine-tuning required.

www.hagerty.co.uk

It’s interesting how different these reviews can be and how different the takes on the same things can be. This guy is clearly not a fan

 

[Wayneos]

Yep, this is the worst review I've seen so far.

Maybe he didn't get enough pudding on his free Scottish junket!

 

[Earthwatcher]

Review needs to be taken seriously though. Maybe not a fan but English seems quite reluctant to admit that the new Defender beats the Grenadier all ways up except not looking like the old Defender - all the figures are there as proof, yet he says “on paper” as if it doesn’t reflect reality. No wonder all the Grenadier PR and marketing/test drives have avoided on road driving. Everything has been somewhat rose tinted up to now and this brings us down to earth with a bump. The Grenadier looks good and no doubt will be good, but it’s not a car made in heaven.

 

[DenisM]

Hagerty's observation regarding the vagueness of the steering in the straight ahead position on the highway is reminiscent of my RRP38. It also had the power assisted recirculating ball arrangement. (I was able to improve this somewhat by slightly increasing the castor which strengthened the self-centering). His comment that it's a deliberate feature to meet German autobahn requirements seems somewhat "esoteric"... Might it be to prevent drivers from over-correcting at speed? I'm wondering if any of our German colleagues on this forum might be able to comment. (Otherwise I'm thinking it's a BS answer from an Ineos engineer ...would they do that in the spirit of transparency?

 

[bemax]

Hagerty's observation regarding the vagueness of the steering in the straight ahead position on the highway is reminiscent of my RRP38. It also had the power assisted recirculating ball arrangement. (I was able to improve this somewhat by slightly increasing the castor which strengthened the self-centering). His comment that it's a deliberate feature to meet German autobahn requirements seems somewhat "esoteric"... Might it be to prevent drivers from over-correcting at speed? I'm wondering if any of our German colleagues on this forum might be able to comment. (Otherwise I'm thinking it's a BS answer from an Ineos engineer ...would they do that in the spirit of transparency?

As a German colleague I must admit that I didn’t understand what he is talking about. Never heard of it at all before reading this article.

 

[DaveB]

Review needs to be taken seriously though. Maybe not a fan but English seems quite reluctant to admit that the new Defender beats the Grenadier all ways up except not looking like the old Defender - all the figures are there as proof, yet he says “on paper” as if it doesn’t reflect reality. No wonder all the Grenadier PR and marketing/test drives have avoided on road driving. Everything has been somewhat rose tinted up to now and this brings us down to earth with a bump. The Grenadier looks good and no doubt will be good, but it’s not a car made in heaven.

I think a few of them hit the nail on the head.
It isn't a car
It isn't an SUV
Don't expect it to handle like either
It is a truck.
Expect it to handle like one and you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[trobex]

This review seems to be done with little emotion which is good - just a straight down the line snapshot of the experience in the vehicle. I think (funnily)... this fella is the reason IA boss has slowed production and why 'quality checks' have been punched in across the entire assembly line!!! There were a few niggles in these productions' cars, and hopefully, most will be dealt with in the next factory run for us mid-year Aussie recipents!

I can see why we got that little IA boss speech last week to calm the fans - it is clearl from these test drives and reviews. Good news really - IA MUST attend all known issues properly and before we drive them as a collective. That is the right course of action for any vehicle manufacturer. This review gives me a little more confidence that the car will come to us in good shape.

"The driving position is reasonably comfortable and certainly better than the previous Defender, though the pedals are offset from the steering." - ok so no changes from prototype set ups. My sciatic nerve is telling me to toughen up (Yes, I do have an old minor injury that will tell me the truth in real time!). It is why I critique such things - I will know 1st if any vehicle's driving position is good or bad!!! Even a 2018 CX5 gives me the niggles!

 

[Tazzieman]

Even a 2018 CX5 gives me the niggles!

Back to the factory for you then!

 

[globalgregors]

Review needs to be taken seriously though. Maybe not a fan but English seems quite reluctant to admit that the new Defender beats the Grenadier all ways up except not looking like the old Defender - all the figures are there as proof, yet he says “on paper” as if it doesn’t reflect reality. No wonder all the Grenadier PR and marketing/test drives have avoided on road driving. Everything has been somewhat rose tinted up to now and this brings us down to earth with a bump. The Grenadier looks good and no doubt will be good, but it’s not a car made in heaven.

I think the reason he says "on paper" is because the Defender achieves those figures (and indeed superior on road performance) due to its independent air suspension setup and Terrain Management System.
After listing some of the other key variables (not the least "driver"), he goes on to say "you can’t put a value on toughness".

Without labouring the point, he appears to be suggesting one keep reliability (and simplicity and field serviceability etc) as performance criteria in mind - alongside driving dynamics - instead of seeking a definitive conclusion. Owner needs will differ.

 

[grenadierboy]

It was good to read a critical review with contestable arguments.

He is clearly impressed that a gas company has produced a solid car that is "competent and worth a look" in 6 years but, one that has too many design flaws and faults to pass muster - I guess then he might only give it 4/10.

He does not like Grenny's the on-road handling, believes the new Defender handles way better on-road and almost as good as the Grenny off it.

Kicking further sand into the eyes of the Grenadier, he thinks it's off road performance is only marginally better than that of old Defender.

Thus, I got the strong impression he prefers new Defender and is puzzled why INEOS didn't make the Grenadier a better on-road performer.

I wonder how many other Grenadiers during the review process had gremlins - if so, I would be furious that IA managers let these cars go to Scotland.

 

[Tazzieman]

Thus, I got the strong impression he prefers new Defender and is puzzled why INEOS didn't make the Grenadier a better ...

Who knows what subconscious or other biases he may or may not have?
Perhaps JLR supply his cousin with free vehicles?
Imagine if a reviewer rated your bride to be. Would you still marry an 8/10?

Journos got a nice freebie , albeit in a miserably cold place. Haggis ain't so bad if you like taking a chance with things.
We have to risk our pay to do our own evaluation

 

[DaveB]

Some of the reviewers seem to have limited experience with Off road vehicles.
When I get out of my Mercedes and into my mates tray back ute I don't complain about it's refinement, sound system and handling.
I think it is perfect for taking shit to the tip.

 

[ADVAW8S]

@DaveB dropping knowledge

 

[jamgolf]

“And while not one of the ten test Grenadiers stopped working, there were too many faults and daft design decisions to pass muster; if any of the competition had turned up with this many howlers they’d have been pilloried.”

The faults should have been listed and documented in the article. He makes it sound like nothing worked - perhaps it would be more useful to include photos showing the faults instead of generic pretty photos of vehicles. Other reviewers have not reported such faults and they were sharing the fleet, so I am a bit skeptical of this review but at the same time, a bit concerned.

My biggest concern is on road manners. If the Grenadier‘s steering is similar to the Jeep Wrangler’s then its a deal breaker for me. I am not expecting it to be a sports car steering but Wrangler steering is just unacceptable to me.

 

[AnD3rew]

At least we know INEOS didn’t do this now.

View: https://youtu.be/aWBrSH6_qmw

 

[DaveB]

“And while not one of the ten test Grenadiers stopped working, there were too many faults and daft design decisions to pass muster; if any of the competition had turned up with this many howlers they’d have been pilloried.”

The faults should have been listed and documented in the article. He makes it sound like nothing worked - perhaps it would be more useful to include photos showing the faults instead of generic pretty photos of vehicles. Other reviewers have not reported such faults and they were sharing the fleet, so I am a bit skeptical of this review but at the same time, a bit concerned.

My biggest concern is on road manners. If the Grenadier‘s steering is similar to the Jeep Wrangler’s then its a deal breaker for me. I am not expecting it to be a sports car steering but Wrangler steering is just unacceptable to me.

I have driven it twice but only once on bitumen with curves and a couple of good straights
I didn't see/feel anything wrong with the steering.
So unless they have gone backwards in the last 3 months....
I bet one of them commented about it over their 12th drink and by morning everyone had a problem.
A bit like Facebook

 

[trobex]

I have driven it twice but only once on bitumen with curves and a couple of good straights
I didn't see/feel anything wrong with the steering.
So unless they have gone backwards in the last 3 months....
I bet one of them commented about it over their 12th drink and by morning everyone had a problem.
A bit like Facebook

I had driven PT three times, steering to me felt perfectly fine even in the 'unrefined' version. This is a 2.7T truck not a sedan. The vehicles do very different things. He might be comparing to the 'New Defender' the steering!?

 

[ECrider]

The faults should have been listed and documented in the article. He makes it sound like nothing worked - perhaps it would be more useful to include photos showing the faults instead of generic pretty photos of vehicles.

That would have been a better journalistic approach. Bit p1ssed off he went the lazy route.

 

[Tazzieman]

As Winston Churchill famously once said " Don't believe everything you see or read on the internet"