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Grenadiers Towing

Davman

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Do Ineos recommend using a weight distribution system in the manual when towing over a certain weight? Some manufacturers do. Jeep recommends one on the Grand Cherokee when towing over 2250kgs which typically produces a 225kgs ball/nose weight (10%). The GC has a 350kg ball weight rating.
When I spoke to Ineos at the drive day about this, they mentioned that they have no objections to one being used.
However that was about 5 months ago.
 

MrMike

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@DCPU more regarding a trip done by one of the first IG owners in Western Australia 4 days 4000klms copied from FB-

Arrived Darwin - 4 days on the road towing the camper.
Knowing everything I know now about how this car drives would I chose to buy one?
That’s a resounding YES.
Edit: I only hit 1 roo (front driver side corner) and two birds. No damage to the car at all from the roo. I’ll do a follow up post in the next couple of days to add more detail to the stuff I’ve posted already.
 

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I've heard nothing from IA in regard to this, I doubt they would seeing as they are not ideal for off road or track use. I'd rather get my load balanced properly than have to use those.
Yes but every vanner in Oz takes their wdh bars off when leaving the blacktop, or they should. Having a well balanced van just means good design & keeping as much weight as close to the axles, with nothing heavy hanging off the back bumper (like 2 spares, toolbox, jerries etc you see), and not overloading the A-frame.
But, you still need 7-10% ball weight for optimal stability when towing, so any van from around 2.5T ATM upwards should be using a wdh to restore lost weight back to the front axle to restore steering & braking. Airbags or upgraded springs / leafs do not move any weight off the rear axle back to the front, they just make sit level so it all looks pretty. Only a lever like the wdh system can shift the weight.
 
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When I spoke to Ineos at the drive day about this, they mentioned that they have no objections to one being used.
However that was about 5 months ago.
Yes no problem with body on chassis vehicles, especially with the Gren being built like a railroad car underneath.
 

MrMike

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Yes but every vanner in Oz takes their wdh bars off when leaving the blacktop, or they should. Having a well balanced van just means good design & keeping as much weight as close to the axles, with nothing heavy hanging off the back bumper (like 2 spares, toolbox, jerries etc you see), and not overloading the A-frame.
But, you still need 7-10% ball weight for optimal stability when towing, so any van from around 2.5T ATM upwards should be using a wdh to restore lost weight back to the front axle to restore steering & braking. Airbags or upgraded springs / leafs do not move any weight off the rear axle back to the front, they just make sit level so it all looks pretty. Only a lever like the wdh system can shift the weight.
I understand the use of them, the recent availability of mobile weighing business' should help those that aren't up to speed with the correct way to load a van. I have seen these in action, very good way to bring to light the imbalance of some vans.
Removing WDH for off road is incredibly dangerous IMO. I just wouldn't go off road with a badly weighted van.
 
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Removing WDH for off road is incredibly dangerous IMO. I just wouldn't go off road with a badly weighted van
Typically speeds are substantially reduced to cater when properly off road. Barrelling down a smooth well graded dirt road is a different story, bars should be on. I wouldn't go anywhere with a badly weighted van. A van with a 330kg ball weight is not necessarily badly weighted. That weight is ideal for a 3.3T van.
 

Davman

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I am a WDH convert - they do amazing things when you are towing 3000kg+ vans around Australia. They allow you to have high ball weight which reduces sway due to the ever shifting weights of carrying fresh/grey water whilst touring.
However you cannot always use them as you have rightly said.
Recently I have stopped using the WDH as I tow with a VW Amarok - and VW say do not use them - which on a Dual Cab ute - I kind of agree with them.
So I have learned that you can setup a heavy van/car nicely without a WDH - although it is still not as good as using a WDH.

Therefore this adds to the reason why I think/hope the Grenadier will be the best tow car available.
It has a short overhang distance from tow ball to the rear axle, and I have optioned a winch/roo bar/diesel up front to help provide some addition weight on the front axle to balance the weight of the tow ball load when I don't want to / cannot use a WDH. This should result in an inherently stable/level vehicle when loaded up in the back.
It is setup to carry a high payload - so the rear springs and axles are going to be ready to carry some decent weight, and the front of the car is ready to deal with it as well, even if it is raised somewhat.
However, when I do want to use the WDH I also have that option due to the tank like construction of the rear tow bar and ladder chassis.
 

Davman

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. Barrelling down a smooth well graded dirt road is a different story, bars should be on.
Agreed, however the problem is when you have to leave the level road via a deep culvert/drain - You cannot usually stop on the side of the road before unhitching the bars.
That is also true for paved roads mind you.
 

MrMike

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I am a WDH convert - they do amazing things when you are towing 3000kg+ vans around Australia. They allow you to have high ball weight which reduces sway due to the ever shifting weights of carrying fresh/grey water whilst touring.
However you cannot always use them as you have rightly said.
Recently I have stopped using the WDH as I tow with a VW Amarok - and VW say do not use them - which on a Dual Cab ute - I kind of agree with them.
So I have learned that you can setup a heavy van/car nicely without a WDH - although it is still not as good as using a WDH.

Therefore this adds to the reason why I think/hope the Grenadier will be the best tow car available.
It has a short overhang distance from tow ball to the rear axle, and I have optioned a winch/roo bar/diesel up front to help provide some addition weight on the front axle to balance the weight of the tow ball load when I don't want to / cannot use a WDH. This should result in an inherently stable/level vehicle when loaded up in the back.
It is setup to carry a high payload - so the rear springs and axles are going to be ready to carry some decent weight, and the front of the car is ready to deal with it as well, even if it is raised somewhat.
However, when I do want to use the WDH I also have that option due to the tank like construction of the rear tow bar and ladder chassis.
I think the way the IG is weighted, it really does suit towing. How many kgs? I'm not entirely sure what would be the most "comfortable" but personally 3T max for me in any vehicle rated at 3.5T. Otherwise I'd go Ram or light truck.
 
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It is setup to carry a high payload - so the rear springs and axles are going to be ready to carry some decent weight
I did the numbers in regards to payload on my Trialmaster with alloys, bullbar, rails, steps, aux battery, cargo barrier, checkerplates, but no winch. Van ball weight is 255kgs. You quickly reach GVM with just 2 psgrs (150kgs) and the usual gear onboard (but no fridge or drawers). I got to 3498kgs, so 52kgs spare with the 3550 GVM. Adding a winch (38kgs) and I'd sail too close. GVM upgrades will come but prefer to avoid someone like Pedders messing with the suspension.
 

Davman

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I did the numbers in regards to payload on my Trialmaster with alloys, bullbar, rails, steps, aux battery, cargo barrier, checkerplates, but no winch. Van ball weight is 255kgs. You quickly reach GVM with just 2 psgrs (150kgs) and the usual gear onboard (but no fridge or drawers). I got to 3498kgs, so 52kgs spare with the 3550 GVM. Adding a winch (38kgs) and I'd sail too close. GVM upgrades will come but prefer to avoid someone like Pedders messing with the suspension.
How much fuel weight did you factor in?
 
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How much fuel weight did you factor in?
9L so +7.5kgs. Vehicle tare of 2811kgs includes 90% fuel.
Psgrs 150, Bullbar etc 97, ball 255 & 185 for gear which includes a 25kg kayak on the 2 roof bars.
 
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I think the way the IG is weighted, it really does suit towing. How many kgs? I'm not entirely sure what would be the most "comfortable" but personally 3T max for me in any vehicle rated at 3.5T. Otherwise I'd go Ram or light truck.
Yes the high tare weight & 3550kg GVM limits towing big vans. Any van/trailer over 3T and you'll quickly max out on GVM with a 300+ ball weight. I'm up to 3498kgs with a 255 ball weight, van is only 2.6T ATM.
 
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I'd not heard of these wieght distribution hitches before.
What they seem to do is change the distribution of the wieght from the hitch to further back along the A frame of the trailer ?
Is there also a connection further forward along the vehicles chassis ?
 
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I'd not heard of these wieght distribution hitches before.
What they seem to do is change the distribution of the wieght from the hitch to further back along the A frame of the trailer ?
Is there also a connection further forward along the vehicles chassis ?
This video shows how they work, and also how they affect axle weights Vs using airbags.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZu39pQ8Gg
 
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I am a WDH convert - they do amazing things when you are towing 3000kg+ vans around Australia. They allow you to have high ball weight which reduces sway due to the ever shifting weights of carrying fresh/grey water whilst touring.
However you cannot always use them as you have rightly said.
Recently I have stopped using the WDH as I tow with a VW Amarok - and VW say do not use them - which on a Dual Cab ute - I kind of agree with them.
So I have learned that you can setup a heavy van/car nicely without a WDH - although it is still not as good as using a WDH.

Therefore this adds to the reason why I think/hope the Grenadier will be the best tow car available.
It has a short overhang distance from tow ball to the rear axle, and I have optioned a winch/roo bar/diesel up front to help provide some addition weight on the front axle to balance the weight of the tow ball load when I don't want to / cannot use a WDH. This should result in an inherently stable/level vehicle when loaded up in the back.
It is setup to carry a high payload - so the rear springs and axles are going to be ready to carry some decent weight, and the front of the car is ready to deal with it as well, even if it is raised somewhat.
However, when I do want to use the WDH I also have that option due to the tank like construction of the rear tow bar and ladder chassis.
The old model 2H V6 VW Amarok is a excellent tow vehicle, ( I would not go anywhere near the new Ford Ranger based one ) but the 2010 - 2022 Amarok has a similar rear overhang to A 300 series L/C, but a significantly longer wheel base and slightly wider track making it more stable, I am quite sure the Ineos Grenadier will be A better tow vehicle than an Amarok.
One of the best ways to make a caravan more stable is to lengthen the draw bar, the Europeans don't recommend anything like 10% tow ball weight, it seems to be an Australian thing 6 or 7% is plenty.
And if you are towing anything near 3t you are only going to be doing mild off roading so a longer draw bar won't be a problem, I lengthened the draw bar on my 2.8t single axle off road hybrid caravan by 240mm and it made a significant improvement when towing it with my old series 2 Discovery.
 
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In the UK the nose weight (on the tow ball) must be more than 25kgs and is often between 50 and 80kgs.
Some vehicles can go up to 150kgs (Landrovers for example) most cars are between 45 to 75kgs.
The 'S' value refers to the allowable weight on the hitch and A frame of the trailor.
Typically this is 100Kgs...

The rules look to be completely different in the US and AU.
We don't need airbags and WDH's because they are only required for loads that would exceed the maximum allowable towing weights and/or apply loads in excess of the legal limits on the towball.

Interesting stuff though.
 
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The rules look to be completely different in the US and AU.
In Oz it's common to see 3.5T dual axle off-road vans being dragged around by 200s. Some are kitted out with every conceivable appliance including a coffee machine. Many have 4 water tanks, 1000w solar, 4-600Ah lithium packs, 2 fridges, full width rear ensuites etc. We probably make the heaviest off-grid caravans in the world, built to tackle corrugated tracks like the Gibb River Rd or Cape York. So ball weight is often up around 350kgs. All too much for a poor old 200s so in recent years many have moved to the big Fords, Rams & GMCs.
 

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DaveB

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I did the numbers in regards to payload on my Trialmaster with alloys, bullbar, rails, steps, aux battery, cargo barrier, checkerplates, but no winch. Van ball weight is 255kgs. You quickly reach GVM with just 2 psgrs (150kgs) and the usual gear onboard (but no fridge or drawers). I got to 3498kgs, so 52kgs spare with the 3550 GVM. Adding a winch (38kgs) and I'd sail too close. GVM upgrades will come but prefer to avoid someone like Pedders messing with the suspension.
I have a Fieldmaster but with all the Trialmaster specs added plus side bars and checkerplates and added the weight to the standard 2,740 (90% fuel) for the base wagon.
It adds about 140kgs
I am a fat bastard so add another 130kgs fully dressed. so that takes it to 3,010 kgs
Leaving 540kgs load capacity.
roof rack and canopy weigh 60kgs
so we are down to 480 kgs
wife weighs 45kgs but is on a diet.
So we are down to 435kgs.
Not planning on towing so that leaves me plenty of room for a fridge, chairs etc
 
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