Americas Grenadier Snorkel Issue?

[don't ignore warning ligh]

I get so tired of Ineos bashing…

You don't have to read it Tom !
I think it's amazing that we have a community sharing experiences good and bad . It's especially helpful for those looking to buy into the brand .
There are lots of good things about the car and a few niggles, a few more serious issues and a small minority of catastrophic problems.
The one thing that has come up a lot is the after care and absolutely awful customer service from Ineos (UK) This might not make a difference to people if their car is problem free !
I'm interested to hear about Customer care across the globe and if Inoes are members of a motor association Ombudsman or similar in your country ( they are not in the UK)
The car is fantastic!(until something goes wrong )

 

[Tom109]

You don't have to read it Tom !
I think it's amazing that we have a community sharing experiences good and bad . It's especially helpful for those looking to buy into the brand .

I do understand/agree with this and happy to be involved with this community. However, I have noticed on other forums there is considerable bashing from speculators lacking personal-ownership, first-hand experience. Like belly-aching about the snorkel that is really a RAI.

 

[[ Adam ]]

I do understand/agree with this and happy to be involved with this community. However, I have noticed on other forums there is considerable bashing from speculators lacking personal-ownership, first-hand experience. Like belly-aching about the snorkel that is really a RAI.

Qu'ils mangent de la brioche

 

[AnD3rew]

I do understand/agree with this and happy to be involved with this community. However, I have noticed on other forums there is considerable bashing from speculators lacking personal-ownership, first-hand experience. Like belly-aching about the snorkel that is really a RAI.

Agree, if you are an owner and/or have genuinely done your homework and are pointing out actual and factual things other owners or potential owners should be aware of thats more than ok, it’s appreciated. But the internet and Facebook in particular is full of armchair critics without a clue who throw crap at it for whatever reason but have never driven one, or have had one half hour test drive and not bothered to learn anything else and then have a go.

 

[Dudlington]

I posted it on FB, so I'll add it here as well... Specifically since the video states that there is no gasket, here's a photo to show the gasket. This is the side of the raised air intake that touches the fender

View attachment 7840418

The foam part is not a gasket but more of a medium to stop NVH and stop paint damage over time due to the plastic touching the painted fender during Dynamics. As mentioned earlier this is not a snorkel but a Raised Air Intake mainly for dusty conditions (Standard Air Intake is close to the front wheel). Because of the design of the Air Intake system inside of the Fender you would need to go for a long distance at 1000mm height of water to start to get water ingress in the Engine , the vehicle has a reccommended Wading depth of 800mm . I am sure the aftermarket will find a solution and produce a Snorkel, alternatively you could add further fixings to the RAI/Fender to create something more robust and seal all the entry points using some kind of flexible sealant. A full blown Snorkel was not a business case for Ineos at the time and it was decided to focus on a RAI . How do I know.............I am the Lead Engineer for Exterior inside Ineos and this is my design.

 

[YellowLab]

The foam part is not a gasket but more of a medium to stop NVH and stop paint damage over time due to the plastic touching the painted fender during Dynamics. As mentioned earlier this is not a snorkel but a Raised Air Intake mainly for dusty conditions (Standard Air Intake is close to the front wheel). Because of the design of the Air Intake system inside of the Fender you would need to go for a long distance at 1000mm height of water to start to get water ingress in the Engine , the vehicle has a reccommended Wading depth of 800mm . I am sure the aftermarket will find a solution and produce a Snorkel, alternatively you could add further fixings to the RAI/Fender to create something more robust and seal all the entry points using some kind of flexible sealant. A full blown Snorkel was not a business case for Ineos at the time and it was decided to focus on a RAI . How do I know.............I am the Lead Engineer for Exterior inside Ineos and this is my design.

You coming in to describe the issue as an expert reminds me of this scene in a Woody Allen Movie:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSmbMm7MDg

 

[bigleonski]

The foam part is not a gasket but more of a medium to stop NVH and stop paint damage over time due to the plastic touching the painted fender during Dynamics. As mentioned earlier this is not a snorkel but a Raised Air Intake mainly for dusty conditions (Standard Air Intake is close to the front wheel). Because of the design of the Air Intake system inside of the Fender you would need to go for a long distance at 1000mm height of water to start to get water ingress in the Engine , the vehicle has a reccommended Wading depth of 800mm . I am sure the aftermarket will find a solution and produce a Snorkel, alternatively you could add further fixings to the RAI/Fender to create something more robust and seal all the entry points using some kind of flexible sealant. A full blown Snorkel was not a business case for Ineos at the time and it was decided to focus on a RAI . How do I know.............I am the Lead Engineer for Exterior inside Ineos and this is my design.

From the horses mouth then @Dudlington (although this may have been a higher paygrade decision), could you please tell us why Ineos chose a RAI instead of a snorkel which in my opinion would have been a much more sought after item. As it is I’m considering replacing it with a snorkel (at additional cost) when an aftermarket option is available.
I certainly would have paid more if it was just a dollars and cents issue.

 

[Dudlington]

From the horses mouth then @Dudlington (although this may have been a higher paygrade decision), could you please tell us why Ineos chose a RAI instead of a snorkel which in my opinion would have been a much more sought after item. As it is I’m considering replacing it with a snorkel (at additional cost) when an aftermarket option is available.
I certainly would have paid more if it was just a dollars and cents issue.

The customer feedback study showed there are more people who are happy to pay for the look/ have the advantage in dusty conditions and are happy with the official 800 mm wading depth than there are hard offroaders who want more...............The aftermarket will take care of that but as I suggested earlier beef up the fixings and add flexible sealant in all the entry points (Not possible from our side for a number of manufacturing/process reasons). The bean counters are in control.

 

[samnt650]

The foam part is not a gasket but more of a medium to stop NVH and stop paint damage over time due to the plastic touching the painted fender during Dynamics. As mentioned earlier this is not a snorkel but a Raised Air Intake mainly for dusty conditions (Standard Air Intake is close to the front wheel). Because of the design of the Air Intake system inside of the Fender you would need to go for a long distance at 1000mm height of water to start to get water ingress in the Engine , the vehicle has a reccommended Wading depth of 800mm . I am sure the aftermarket will find a solution and produce a Snorkel, alternatively you could add further fixings to the RAI/Fender to create something more robust and seal all the entry points using some kind of flexible sealant. A full blown Snorkel was not a business case for Ineos at the time and it was decided to focus on a RAI . How do I know.............I am the Lead Engineer for Exterior inside Ineos and this is my design.

@Dudlington very useful info. Hope your design isn't difficult for "home mechanic" make modification turning the RAI to water tight Snorkel You explanation makes a lot sense, manufacturer will always address the 80% market and leave us, the 20% with aftermarket options...

 

[nuclearbeef]

The customer feedback study showed there are more people who are happy to pay for the look/ have the advantage in dusty conditions and are happy with the official 800 mm wading depth than there are hard offroaders who want more...............The aftermarket will take care of that but as I suggested earlier beef up the fixings and add flexible sealant in all the entry points (Not possible from our side for a number of manufacturing/process reasons). The bean counters are in control.

Theoretically speaking; if one was to completely seal the RAI, what would the wading depth be?
What would the next limiting factor be? The electronic modules in the footwells?

 

[Mountain4x4]

My theory is LIABILITY. If they say, look its a snorkel, you KNOW there will be a FEW Darwin award winners that go into a raging river and go full on submarine, not just pushing some over the hood action. Personally I would install a conversion kit to a snorkel if it came out. Why not have both?

 

[nzmark]

It may be a bit of a newbie question, but what sort of a distance would you experienced users suggest that I could drive with a "bit of slosh" over the bonnet? For example, if I was going through a stream/river which had (say) 10m of water (just) over the bonnet, would that be too much, or should I rigorously stick to "nothing deeper than 800mm"?

 

[Tazzieman]

The question is , do you trust the door seals?
There are several electrical connectors that will get flooded if you get soaked if you get 10cm of water in the footwell.
I'll sit back and wait for a hero to take the deep plunge. Make sure to youtube it!

 

[Tom109]

...and hit Wading Mode!

 

[AnD3rew]

It may be a bit of a newbie question, but what sort of a distance would you experienced users suggest that I could drive with a "bit of slosh" over the bonnet? For example, if I was going through a stream/river which had (say) 10m of water (just) over the bonnet, would that be too much, or should I rigorously stick to "nothing deeper than 800mm"?

This is a question frought with uncertainties, one person might have gotten away with something once and say its ok and the next person that tries it sucks in a bootful of water and hydraulics their engine. I have certainly gotten away in other vehicles with a short dip over the bonnet but thats more good luck than anything. Stick to the 800 rule as intentional and if you accidentally dip in a little deeper with a little luck you will get away with it. If you intentionally go deeper you have used up any safety margin you might have and then you drop a wheel in an unseen hole and its all over.

Theoretically speaking; if one was to completely seal the RAI, what would the wading depth be?
What would the next limiting factor be? The electronic modules in the footwells?

There are many factors, air intake, alternator, fuse boxes, door seals, and probably for flowing water one of the most important is floatation point. Even if everything survives the water if your vehicle starts to float and the flow washes you downstream it may be all over.

Even with a fully sealed snorkel, your rule should still be the recommended wading depth and the snorkel regarded as a little extra safety margin if you accidentally drop into a hole and go deeper, don’t deliberately exceed the wading depth.

 

[nzmark]

Thanks for your replies. I will definitely stick to the 800mm!!

On the door seals, perhaps I am lucky but if I don't have a window open, I need to close any door "with vigour" in order to latch the doors properly.

 

[pedrogb]

I have had the RAI removed and refitted by dealer due to the light fitting coming loose with a broken internal bracket. The light fitting is now firmly in place.
However there is definitely a gap between RAI body and the side of the car, you can see the gasket around the air intake does not meet the car body all the way around.
It seems to be the moulded shape of the plastic RAI more than anything.
I'm planning a Cape trip later this year. If I could buy an aftermarket snorkel for that trip then I definitely would. I doubt it will be developed by then.
I will probably remove the RAI (it's how I discovered the first issue, and it's a simple job) and increase the amount of foam gasket around the air intake point to seal it up a bit better.
I will be very cautious with water crossings.

 

[Jack123]

I have had the RAI removed and refitted by dealer due to the light fitting coming loose with a broken internal bracket. The light fitting is now firmly in place.
However there is definitely a gap between RAI body and the side of the car, you can see the gasket around the air intake does not meet the car body all the way around.
It seems to be the moulded shape of the plastic RAI more than anything.
I'm planning a Cape trip later this year. If I could buy an aftermarket snorkel for that trip then I definitely would. I doubt it will be developed by then.
I will probably remove the RAI (it's how I discovered the first issue, and it's a simple job) and increase the amount of foam gasket around the air intake point to seal it up a bit better.
I will be very cautious with water crossings.

Thank you Sir for sharing. I'll make sure to check once I receive my vehicle.,

 

[AnD3rew]

Thanks for your replies. I will definitely stick to the 800mm!!

On the door seals, perhaps I am lucky but if I don't have a window open, I need to close any door "with vigour" in order to latch the doors properly.

Some have had issues with door seals, but when fully functional I don’t think many if any vehicles have better door sealing than a Grenadier

 

[Zimm]

I have had the RAI removed and refitted by dealer due to the light fitting coming loose with a broken internal bracket. The light fitting is now firmly in place.
However there is definitely a gap between RAI body and the side of the car, you can see the gasket around the air intake does not meet the car body all the way around.
It seems to be the moulded shape of the plastic RAI more than anything.
I'm planning a Cape trip later this year. If I could buy an aftermarket snorkel for that trip then I definitely would. I doubt it will be developed by then.
I will probably remove the RAI (it's how I discovered the first issue, and it's a simple job) and increase the amount of foam gasket around the air intake point to seal it up a bit better.
I will be very cautious with water crossings.

I would default to a thick bead of black silicone sealant so as to have it swish out the sides, and then use my finger to clean it up.

I also wouldn't trust all the electrics and connections are waterproof, if it wasn't intended to be that way.