Got invited to the Grenadier 2B prototype walkthrough in San Francisco!!

[ih8mud]

the link will only let you get so far:

" Please ensure you register using the email address we sent your email invitation to, you will not be able to register with another email address"

 

[jlglr4]

Ah…sucks.  Email them for an invite - I think there’s an email address on that web page. I don’t see why they would not want to give out invites to interested people.  I have been signed up with them since the early days.   Not sure what the criteria is.  

 

[grenadierguy]

For reservation holders who are in Seattle, San Francisco, or LA and have not gotten an invite email: usa@grenadierprototypetour.com

I got an email back the same day. Sounds like they will be in Colorado in the middle of February. Can't wait! They referenced Denver, better be a ride along and not a touch and feel.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Received an email from a chap named Josh with the la venue.
1919 Bay street, Los Angeles, CA 90021

Judging by the location I’d be surprised if there’s any driving other than round the block.
Im expecting it to be a static display as some have commented on in Europe and the Middle East.
But  I really want to be surprised. So I’ll cross my fingers for the off chance that they pull a rabbit out of the hat. 

 

[ADVAW8S]

It looks like it is more meet and greet versus a drive along. The Seattle location is at a conference hall in Fremont.    If you go to Reddit and look up Ineos Grenadier, about 2 months back, Ineos was at SEMA and did a small event for media and prospective buyers(invitation only)    

 

[Paachi]

So here is my initial stream of consciousness questions that I plan to get answered. Obviously, some of these might get already answered by @Stu_Barnes and some already covered by @Jeremy996

Please feel free to add more questions

Questions to ask/ check in Grenadier 2B prototype walkthrough

Dimensions and feel
1. Measure the ground clearance at front (radiator), rear (tow hitch) and lowest points (pumpkins)
2. Measure total width incl mirrors and sans mirrors. Measure total height
3. Sit in the front at a comfortable position and measure rear seat leg space
4. Measure distance from back of front seats to trunk door for bed platform
5. Measure width inside the trunk a) from gull-wing to gull-wing b) wheel well to wheel well
6. Measure height from load floor to ceiling in the trunk
7. Check clearance of the rear mounted spare wheel to take 33” and 35” tires (left trunk door clearance and bumper clearance)
8. Check depth of the ladder to door frame for level of grip and not scratching door and glass
9. Check toggle switches to see how they feel in actuation
10. Check the dimensions of the rear door and the rear gull wing panel to see options for mounting a traction board setup
11. Check the mounting points for the spare tire (if its similar to G-Wagen or Jeep) and check the bracing
12. Ask how much weight can spare tire take if tire size goes up and you mount additional stuff to it like traction boards and trash bags
13. Check rear seat area to see options for mounting a fridge on the seat mount panels
14. Ask about wheel offset measurements
15. Check if F & R bumpers are metal or plastic


Electrical
1. Check aux battery compartment, measure dimensions for possible battery sizes
2. Check location of fuse box, alternator, Power +ve and -ve in the engine bay
3. Ask how many main chassis grounding wires are there (assuming 2..one for alternator and one for battery)
4. Ask about the wiring for aux switches if it goes into roof, rear, etc for easy tap in for accessories without drilling
5. Ask about 2000W inverter, location and usage

Engine and Mechanicals
1. Ask MPG and range from the petrol and diesel engine
2. Ask what weight oil is taken and where is the oil filter
3. Ask if there is a deeper oil pan because of the off road needs of the engine
4. Ask if there is a fuel pre filter inline before the main filter
5. Ask the capacity of the tank and possibility to add an aux fuel tank
6. Ask if the engine will run on poor fuel or 87 octane..or will it only work on 91 octane
7. Check if there are transmission and diff breathers up high in the engine bay
8. Ask what transmission fluid is used and how will it be flushed
9. Ask about the intercoolers/ radiators mounted on the front bumper wings and their vulnerability

Accessories
1. Ask about the front bull bar option
2. Ask what will be cost of options including diff-locks, checker plates, sun roof, gull wings and camp table
3. Ask about a engine and cabin heater option in petrol and diesel models
4. Ask if the raised air intake is sealed against water entry
5. Ask if there will be a factory extended aux tank, especially for petrol models where the diesel adblue tanks sit

 

[ADVAW8S]

Maybe I can remove one of the questions around transmission.  ZF says change at the 62k mile mark. You drain it and then take the whole pan off.  You add a new seal ring and filter and tighten the pan with the new screws. Add new drain plug. Finally added transmission oil through filler plug(need a pump) 

 

[Jeremy996]

I'd be astonished if you get straight answers for MPG or option prices as these are likely to be set or measured last! We are still 6 months from retail sale in the UK, 18 months in the USA. Conventionally, we would still be scouring fuzzy auto-pap shots of test mules this early, with no more than dodgy speculation in the press (and "best-guess" photoshop in Autocar). 

 

[Paachi]

@ADVAW8S Thanks. I was wondering if they made changes to the schedule or the ZF itself due to the application in the Grenadier.

@Jeremy996 Yes I am not expecting to answers for many questions. I doubt they'd allow me to take pictures under the body or under the bonnet. Still..having this as a ready reference..but will eventually prioritize my questions as well

 

[Arkaig]

[QUOTE username=Jeremy Edwards  Jeremy996 userid=8850576 postid=1331669796]I'd be astonished if you get straight answers for MPG or option prices as these are likely to be set or measured last! We are still 6 months from retail sale in the UK, 18 months in the USA. Conventionally, we would still be scouring fuzzy auto-pap shots of test mules this early, with no more than dodgy speculation in the press (and "best-guess" photoshop in Autocar). [/QUOTE]

 

[Arkaig]

I agree - it's still prototype 2B, let alone a final series prototype or initial production model. Much can still change as test results come in and are fully analysed.

 

[ih8mud]

Great news, a few of us got invites this morning for the Seattle tour!  

 

[Paachi]

[QUOTE username=Jeff  ih8mud userid=8455673 postid=1331676630]Great news, a few of us got invites this morning for the Seattle tour!  [/QUOTE]

Awesome sauce!! It will be great to get a few more eyes on the Gren..

 

[Ovrland Bill]

I have an invitation to the Los Angeles walkthrough on Monday (24JAN) but have not been advised of the actual location (notwithstanding the Bay Street address that Stu posted). Has anyone else been given the “Undisclosed Location” (or when to expect it)?
Bill R.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

So these are my comments and observations as well as the information that we were given during the talk. they made it clear that if anyone was filming that the Q&A session would not be as candid and lose.

Overall a very casual event, some people brought along a +1 didn't seem to be an issue. There were about 20 people there. The Grenadier was presented with the bonnet' hood closed, all other doors open. It is a static display.

The vehicle just to see as it  the only one in the USA at the moment. It is here for several months on the countrywide roadshow in the USA and Canada. It looked better and in more proportion in the flesh than in renderings or online.Delivery mid 2023 hoping for August, delays due to certification for USA market.130 prototypes around the world testing.5 figures number for reservations held globally.Over 3k USA reservations held.Oct - Nov USA test drives anticipated. USA orders expected to be delivered August 23.UK & Europe deliveries August / September, SA and OZ 4th quarter of this year.Dealerships sales model not direct sale, dealers will be setup by spring of next year in NA earlier in the other markets.Pricing confirmed later this year for the NA market, indicated to be around 75K USD.

Price 4th quarter this year, with a frozen time window only for reservation holders to decide on purchasing or not.



Sadly can’t commit to ruling out dealer price gouging but will try their best to deter.

Speaking to BMW for servicing in NA but can’t confirm at this point.

Service primarily handled by the selling dealer or Bosch accredited service centers as well as some other independents.

Central and South American markets not decided on yet for sales.No diesel for NA market in this generation. Is there the option for Ad Blue tank replacement with fuel tanks, no for USA market but have spoken to some suppliers in Australia as possibility for the future. 1.1 million miles of testing completed aiming fir 1.2 no catastrophic failures.40% of options are on website at the moment, spring this year the full configuration will be published more choice content and flexibility. Essentially the configurator is a preliminary one and the full one will be released int he spring. Some options will not be ready for the initial deliveries and will not be on the configurator, as these become available they will be included online. They will have driving experience centre but not sure where in the USA it will beDriving experiences coming this year to us and Canada , full test drives for the customer. Electrification is in the future and they are looking into it closely.Fuel cell is in the near future partnered with Hyundai and BMW and is the direction they want to go due to the duty cycle of the vehicle.No heated front windshield, just vents and blowers.No heated steering wheel, if you want it then contact them and ask, if there is demand then they will look at it, its a steering wheel just designed for them, not off the shelf unit so some reengineering is necessary, they have raised the issue before but Sir Jim wears gloves. Quoted figures
Towing 7716lbs

Payload about 1000kg but tbc depending on final weightGround clearance 10.4"Length 194"Height 80"Width 84"Interior dimensions are basically locked in 6’4” can fit comfortably

Max speed limited to just over 100mph.
No blackout screen for the safari windows, but there will be a solar reflective tint applied to them.On 33” tires max from INEOS, aftermarket for larger wheel tire combinations and lifts. Pre wired front and rear terminal boxes. For auxy switchgear with controls wired back to the cabin.House battery under rear seat. Starting battery in engine bay.Front and rear winch capacity. Regular low octane fuel can be used no problem.Braking same across the board, caliper size and disc etc. Observations

Seats hug well, bolstering fine and comfortable for the 3 minutes I sat, seating position natural, didn't sit in the rear seats, time ran out.

The bottom of the front radiators are in line with the bottom of the tow hooks.Bottom of the rear valence is in line with the bottom of the differential. All of the running gear is tucked up really well Underneath Rear door setup final. 

Rear ladder is very close to the rear glazing, maybe 4" clearance, aftermarket protection for the window is the way I'd go.

The overall feel of the Grenadier is one of it being substantial, the nuts and bolts underneath are more akin to commercial vehicles than consumer. 

Not sure where the online maintenance instructions stop. Will look into if it covers engine and gearbox etc. Deep sump or extra baffling for engine,  don’t know will look into it. 


Sorry I don't have more but it was a good event, I'm sure that others will ask more questions, the group I was with spent almost 20 minutes talking about California pricing and options for buying direct from INEOS overseas. 

Very glad I went, and now the long wait. Oh, the baby blue Grenadier looks much better in person than online, but thats just my opinion.

Stu.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

https://www.landroverworld.org/threads/just-received-my-notice-to-put-my-deposit-down-on-a-grenadier.43441/page-7
The comment at the bottom by Fuji fills in some more info that I may have missed. 

 

[Bruce]

Not having a guaranteed price when I configure and order a vehicle would be one of the few deal breakers for me. Ford was able to lock pricing for my bronco order (which I cancelled) so I don't see why ineos couldn't. Motorsports dealers are notorious for sketchy sales tactics and I can see this being an issue. European delivery would be incredible if possible.

 

[PowerfulUSUltd]

@Stu_Barnes. Thank you for the write up. Glad they have test drives planned before delivery. Also surprised by only 3k US reservations. Disappointed by the $75k starting price, that's a lot less add-ons for me. I hope at that price they work hard to limit market adjustments for reservation holders. If someone drops out and leaved it to the dealers then they can price it as they want. So so happy with the light blue, I have configuring mine with the color but have been a bit hesitant, you're right it looks great.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

There were no hard figures for pricing. Other than “how much do you think” myself and another chap said 75k and the reply was you’re not far off. Im sure others will drill down over the next few weeks on that. The interesting thing is that they are “spending a lot of time touring the vehicle this year in North America “so they said. Fingers crossed more dates and locations crop up. 

 

[Triple Seven]

Great review...Thanks for sharing!

That info regarding price markups and pricing it like a G-Wagon is quite discouraging...Like I've said before, notwithstanding the great capabilities of some of these vehicles, if the 'well to do' and over indulged, stay at home soccer moms are the only people that can afford to buy them, then, (for the most part), the furthest off road they'll go, is to the outlet mall and the occasional trip to the ski-hill!

That'll be a shame...