*Ergonomics Issue*

[VishSaha]

So. apologize for the tone, since this is many months in the making. Have yet to see anyone address it. No one at ineos has responded, and no one at any of the events had an answer. 

I am assuming like most of you this is a dream overlanding vehicle. Also assuming like most of you, you're probably a guy, and you are somewhere in the athletic or formerly athletic category of physical build. 

The passenger side footwell has a massive obstruction on the left side. It looks like it is the remnant of the Right Hand Drive model left-foot rest. 

Now if you're thinking... "well that's just for right hand drive!"... A fellow Ineos order holder pointed this out to me that he had seen it in person in the NA demo vehicle, noticed it since he was extremely uncomfortable at 6'2" and asked staff about it and they had no response. One apparently ventured a guess that it was for "Diff housing clearance"

All you have to do is look under the chassis to see that is nowhere near where the diff housing is located. 

Sufficed to say this will kill your, or your passengers, knee on long trips, especially if you are of average or above average height.

I am extremely concerned since my own research leads me to believe it is a major engineering oversight that is not modular, but stamped into the body sheet metal. 

See attached photos. 

Any info or analysis to the contrary would be very welcome.   

 

[VishSaha]

May have found out what this is: A clearance gap for the exhaust manifold/pipe (?!):
 

 

[Tazzieman]

It's the same distance to your accel pedal. Yet long drives don't kill your right leg. Leg position is same as for Series Land Rovers and I've never had an issue. And I drive in boots.

 

[emax]

How could one's knee clash with this obstruction? For me, it's seems to be too far below for that.

I now understand, you mean the leg position. I consider this an individual thing. My be a problem for some, but not for others. I wonder how Sir Jim, as the customer number one, dealt with that. He his quite tall.

One of the rare moments, where my height of 170 cm is an advantage. ;-)

 

[CountyV8]

The image of the prototype Grenadier was taken in South Wales last year  14/7/21 to be exact how do I know because I took it so its still the first prototype a lot has changed since then.

 

[PBD]

The two versions I saw a month ago at the Oswestry event still had these foot "rests", I thought they were a bit uncomfortable, but maybe to help you brace yourself when off roading?  Also the nearside rear interior wheel arch had been "squared off" but not the Offside?  Lets hope there both square in the final versions.

 

[WhiteBear]

This is how it looks at the Prototype in April in Austria:

 

 

[MRO]

I have looked at all the photographs and it does seem as though they have shrunk the footrest and moved the pedals more centrally but I wonder whether this is enough? 

Given the footrest is actually a cabin intrusion to make space for the manifold I also wonder whether that is going to create heat issues?

I am concerned as have been asked to finalise my order this week for production and I really dont want a car that I cant spend all day working from without becoming stressed by the seating position. It doesnt matter if it is the best in every other way, if I cant do 500 miles in one go or spend 3-4 hours a day off road in reasonable comfort then it wont work for me. This is replacing a Range Rover and Defender in my case. I dont want another Range Rover with ever increasing complexity and toys and my Defender is just too unstable for comfortable long distance travel. The alternative is a Land Cruiser really.

Please help if you have any ideas. No reply yet from Ineos to my query on this. 

 

[emax]

The only ways to solve your problems are

• Cancel your order and take a test drive with you in the driver's seat as soon as cars become available that can be driven by non-test drivers. Then decide. Delivery might be a few months later, but you get a car with fewer gremlins. Not the worst deal I think.
• Alternatively, find a dealer with at least a PTO-1 version (which I think is impossible today) and get in the driver's seat.

You can't get around it otherwise. Advice from anyone here is always personal opinion, but not your POV.

 

[MRO]

Thanks emax, I know you are right but I need to change cars before winter as the Range Rover bushes have had it at 7 years and I want the Grenadier. If my head wins I will follow your advice. I suspect I will chance it. 

 

[HT]

MRO, my thought is this: with all the alternative overlanders and capable SUV’s struggling to supply the market (2+ years wait) then you may as well proceed with this gamble. For two reasons:
1. firstly, what else are you going to buy that can be delivered in ‘2023 (nothing); and
2. Secondly, If it’s comfortable for you, then happy days! Alternatively, if it’s not comfortable, then given the lack of alternatives on the market, I reckon you’ll definitely be able to get your money back on your IG by selling it 2nd hand (because everyone else is in the same position with regard to wait times for new vehicles).  

 

[frankkk]

If you are

I have looked at all the photographs and it does seem as though they have shrunk the footrest and moved the pedals more centrally but I wonder whether this is enough?

Given the footrest is actually a cabin intrusion to make space for the manifold I also wonder whether that is going to create heat issues?

I am concerned as have been asked to finalise my order this week for production and I really dont want a car that I cant spend all day working from without becoming stressed by the seating position. It doesnt matter if it is the best in every other way, if I cant do 500 miles in one go or spend 3-4 hours a day off road in reasonable comfort then it wont work for me. This is replacing a Range Rover and Defender in my case. I dont want another Range Rover with ever increasing complexity and toys and my Defender is just too unstable for comfortable long distance travel. The alternative is a Land Cruiser really.

Please help if you have any ideas. No reply yet from Ineos to my query on this.

When you are used to the Defender I wouldn't worry at all. From an ergonomics perspective, the Defender is one of the worst 4x4 of all times, a comfortable driving position can only be found with the window open and even your steering wheel is offset...

 

[stickshifter]

You could consider a 4Runner - it has much better leg room for both the driver and passenger. My wife and I drove a 4Runner to the Mountain West Expo in Colorado, and then sat in the Grenadier - so we were in both vehicles back-to-back. When it comes to legroom, there is no comparison - the 4Runner is much roomier. If the ancient 5-speed transmission in the 4Runner is your reason to stay away from it - consider a dealer-installed Magnuson supercharger, which ups power output to around 350 horsepower and 375 lb ft. of torque. If you have it installed at the dealership (for around $8,000), it comes with a warranty for the power train. I don't think the 5-speed transmission will be an issue with the supercharger. Even after the supercharger, your out-of-pocket cost is way lower than for a Grenadier. The 4Runner - in the Off Road trim - comes with a selectable rear locking differential, and with a manual lever for the transfer case (two key features in the Grenadier). Down the line - if you so choose - you could install an aftermarket locker in the front, if your usage requires it, and still be looking at $20,000 in savings compared to the Grenadier. So the key questions would be: do you need the extra payload of the Grenadier, and do you need the solid front axle? Remember that a solid front axle has both positive attributes (durability, better articulation off-road), and negative attributes (worse on-road handling).

 

[Krabby]

I’m not sure the 4Runner as we know it in the US is a global vehicle. Your suggestion is solid but you fail to mention how ugly the front end is. Between some of the Toyotas and the God awful faces of some Lexus models, gotta wonder who is signing off on designs over there.

 

[emax]

Looks like a bigmouth.

 

[frankkk]

Mr. Yoshimura signs them off in Japan. He was originally into camshaft design but diverted about 15yrs ago. Back then, the Toyotas began to look really ugly and it seems to be getting worse by the year. Well, if he gets his inspiration from Japanese music, no wonder the vehicles look so disgusting. Should've stuck with the camshafts, he was really good at that..a legend.

 

[DCPU]

If you are

When you are used to the Defender I wouldn't worry at all. From an ergonomics perspective, the Defender is one of the worst 4x4 of all times, a comfortable driving position can only be found with the window open and even your steering wheel is offset...

I wish I had a pound for every time I'd heard this...

 

[stickshifter]

I’m not sure the 4Runner as we know it in the US is a global vehicle. Your suggestion is solid but you fail to mention how ugly the front end is. Between some of the Toyotas and the God awful faces of some Lexus models, gotta wonder who is signing off on designs over there.

Hard to tell where the OP lives

Ha ha, yeah it looks terrible in photos. Its not so bad in person, and you get used to it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

[painter]

You could consider a 4Runner -
... So the key questions would be: do you need the extra payload of the Grenadier, and do you need the solid front axle? Remember that a solid front axle has both positive attributes (durability, better articulation off-road), and negative attributes (worse on-road handling).

Off topic but any speculative thoughts on how the two might compare for towing ? I've never towed but if we blow the vehicle budget on a Gren then a 5,000lb 19-21' travel trailer might be in my future.

From what I've read the current 4Runner is/ would be borderline for that size trailer for cross continent travel. The Gren is superior in terms of specs and design (hitch for eg) but it might be preferable to go full size pick up as they are readily available with lots of configurations. And if I go fullsize I'd rather have a slide in camper.

 

[AZGrenadier]

I used to tow a 23ft TT with a GX460. Never had an issue other than piss poor mileage. I would think the 6 cylinder in the 4r may struggle a little.