Diff locks question

[emax]

Normally you would engage the locks a good time before the wheels spin to make smooth progress with the momentum of your car. As soon as you stand still with a spinning wheel you can rescue the situation by locking the diff. But it would be nicer to lock it before to tackle the obstacle without any wheel spin.

You are right.

But this doesn't answer my question.

 

[bemax]

There have been reports and discussions about the e-lockers not always engaging as expected and desired. The problem seems to be that the wheel sensors are not sufficient to detect different wheel spin speeds to activate the e-lockers - if I understand correctly.

BUT: When I am off-roading and the differentials need to be locked, it is usually because the wheels are doing just that: spinning at different speeds.

So I'm wondering: why would I need to take a turn or drive a tight circle to force detection of this situation, when the wheels are already spinning at different speeds?

Because you do not want to wait until the tyres spin.

 

[DaveB]

But this is different from what is published on the Internet and in this forum as well: Drive a tight curve or arc to activate the difflocks.

In the answers I have seen so far, there is no logical explanation for the apparent contradiction.

From memory the e locker has ball bearings that have to move about 50mm to lock the diff up.
They can't do that if you are stationary
Not always possible I know but highly recommended to put on the parachute before you jump out of the plane, not while descending

 

[CountyV8]

From memory the e locker has ball bearings that have to move about 50mm to lock the diff up.
They can't do that if you are stationary
Not always possible I know but highly recommended to put on the parachute before you jump out of the plane, not while descending

I have a parachute but haven't used it yet.

 

[Wayneos]

Not sure if this vid has been posted yet, some great info here and examination of the internals of the e-locker and how that relates to it's operation ie. cam ring and pins and the required travel for it to lock etc.
At this point you could ignore the 'weakness' MadMatt found and his solution (albeit a good one) as there is a follow up vid he made after being in touch with Harrop.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df1hQcJNtVI


Here's the follow up..

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR5koYEyV08

 

[Mtnranger]

Because you do not want to wait until the tyres spin.

If you don’t have diffs locked and 2 of 4 tires start spinning unexpectedly, you’re SOL?

 

[bemax]

If you don’t have diffs locked and 2 of 4 tires start spinning unexpectedly, you’re SOL?

SOL? Please explain.

 

[DaveB]

SOL? Please explain.

I am guessing Shit outa luck

 

[James]

Emax,
i think there are 2 things being discussed here,first is actually locking and unlocking the diffs, and seperately whether the grenadier indicator lights have caught up with what has mechanically happened.
my guess is that lock/unlock is quite straightforward, requires a small amount of vehicle movement, and no difference in wheel travel or turning required.
however, as Ineos has decided not to add sensors in the diffs (which could go wrong/add complexity) the dash lamps rely on wheel sensors to confirm the diff status.
therefore, sometimes the indicator light will show lock as engaged when you have actually successfully disengaged them, up until you turn a corner.

this does not really matter, excepting as some journalists have pointed out that should you want to engage hill descent control immediately after disengaging and without being able to make any turn or wheel slip, you will be prevented in this situation. Hill descent is not something essential to every driver; i dont think this whole diff lock thing will present any issue to drivers already experienced in, or who understand what is happening mechanically. Lots of teacups, lots of storms.

james

 

[DaveB]

Emax,
i think there are 2 things being discussed here,first is actually locking and unlocking the diffs, and seperately whether the grenadier indicator lights have caught up with what has mechanically happened.
my guess is that lock/unlock is quite straightforward, requires a small amount of vehicle movement, and no difference in wheel travel or turning required.
however, as Ineos has decided not to add sensors in the diffs (which could go wrong/add complexity) the dash lamps rely on wheel sensors to confirm the diff status.
therefore, sometimes the indicator light will show lock as engaged when you have actually successfully disengaged them, up until you turn a corner.

this does not really matter, excepting as some journalists have pointed out that should you want to engage hill descent control immediately after disengaging and without being able to make any turn or wheel slip, you will be prevented in this situation. Hill descent is not something essential to every driver; i dont think this whole diff lock thing will present any issue to drivers already experienced in, or who understand what is happening mechanically. Lots of teacups, lots of storms.

james

With front and rear diffs engaged you can put it in low first and you don't need HDC

 

[Tazzieman]

With front and rear diffs engaged you can put it in low first and you don't need HDC

Which is why it pays to know how old school mechanical stuff works!
Reassuring to know , if/when the smoke comes out of damaged/corroded sensor wires...

 

[Mtnranger]

SOL? Please explain.

@dave got it, shit outta luck. Stranded without hope.

 

[Eric]

@dave got it, shit outta luck. Stranded without hope.

@Jean Mercier please take note, if not on the list - SOL

 

[Tom D]

The problem with engaging a locker after you have spun a wheel is that you break the surface of the ground and often fill the treads on your tyres with mud. In sand a spinning wheel will dig a hole very quickly, better not spin it if you can…
I drive tractors off road a lot, on sites and in forests rather than fields, here the ground can occasionally be very soft. Precautionary diff locking is always the name of the game, waiting till you ‘need‘ it often ends badly. Once you start digging often the only way is down… as my colleague found out VVV

 

[To]

As far as I know, one of the reasons the old Defender was never available to order with an axle lock was that Land Rover was always aware of the risk of misuse. They chose to require buyers to install the locks at their own risk. Reading this, I know why Land Rover made that decision. It takes a little technical understanding to use axle locks. That's probably why Ineos chose Eaton locks, because they are really robust as far as I know. But they have the disadvantage that they need a little wheel movement to grip. This was sufficiently explained in the video.

 

[Chris]

The problem with engaging a locker after you have spun a wheel is that you break the surface of the ground and often fill the treads on your tyres with mud. In sand a spinning wheel will dig a hole very quickly, better not spin it if you can…
I drive tractors off road a lot, on sites and in forests rather than fields, here the ground can occasionally be very soft. Precautionary diff locking is always the name of the game, waiting till you ‘need‘ it often ends badly. Once you start digging often the only way is down… as my colleague found out VVV

That’s well stuck!!

 

[Stu_Barnes]

The problem with engaging a locker after you have spun a wheel is that you break the surface of the ground and often fill the treads on your tyres with mud. In sand a spinning wheel will dig a hole very quickly, better not spin it if you can…
I drive tractors off road a lot, on sites and in forests rather than fields, here the ground can occasionally be very soft. Precautionary diff locking is always the name of the game, waiting till you ‘need‘ it often ends badly. Once you start digging often the only way is down… as my colleague found out VVV

I hope he brought a shovel.

 

[Boston Boy]

a question about diff locks. I 've had three cases of getting badly stuck in a 4x4 over the years. None of the vehicles has lockers: 1) a 1962 Land Rover IIA when I got the differentials up on hard pack snow on the side of a bare road. The right side tires on bare asphalt, the two left side tires on snow. I the wheels on snow just spun and I could nto move until I dug out the the ice/snow that was holding up the differentials.
2) A 2012 VW Touareg TDI, again in deep soft snow with a layer of hard pack half way down that supported the differentials
3) a 2007 LR3 in deep wet clay. underbody slightly grounded and two wheels on one side would spin. Had to tow it out.
The tires were all seasons with fairly aggressive treads. Getting aggressive tread mud tires would not be an answer since they would not be appropriate for 80% of the vehicles use (yes, my IIA was a daily driver for a year).
Do folks think front+read locking differentials have helped in 1) or 2)
Suggestions welcomed

 

[Krabby]

No expert by any means, but certainly in scenarios 1 and maybe in 2. Snow chains would have helped tremendously. Did the VW or LR3 have CDL? That would have helped too. Clay is a bitch once the treads are full.

 

[AnD3rew]

a question about diff locks. I 've had three cases of getting badly stuck in a 4x4 over the years. None of the vehicles has lockers: 1) a 1962 Land Rover IIA when I got the differentials up on hard pack snow on the side of a bare road. The right side tires on bare asphalt, the two left side tires on snow. I the wheels on snow just spun and I could nto move until I dug out the the ice/snow that was holding up the differentials.
2) A 2012 VW Touareg TDI, again in deep soft snow with a layer of hard pack half way down that supported the differentials
3) a 2007 LR3 in deep wet clay. underbody slightly grounded and two wheels on one side would spin. Had to tow it out.
The tires were all seasons with fairly aggressive treads. Getting aggressive tread mud tires would not be an answer since they would not be appropriate for 80% of the vehicles use (yes, my IIA was a daily driver for a year).
Do folks think front+read locking differentials have helped in 1) or 2)
Suggestions welcomed

Maybe but once you have chassis/diffs grounded your chances go downhill quickly. However there is also a difference between putting diff locks in once you are stuck and putting them in before you get stuck. Good chance in those situations if you had lockers and had them engaged before you got stuck you might not have got to that point in the first place.