Diff locks (operation)

[[ Adam ]]

Yep - Ashcroft told me that when they see blown center diffs, it's usually because they weren't locked. I spec'd an atb for the center diff going into my 110 restoration

 

[bemax]

Diff locks or not?

Having been stuck too many times in a 100 series Landcruiser with the centre diff lock on, I would posit that any vehicle without locking diffs (or at least a limited slip diff) is not a true off-road vehicle. I also have a 2-wheel drive Mazda BT-50 (used to carry a slide-on camper) with a rear...

www.theineosforum.com

BTW, pictures showing the result of not having the center diff locked. They show one half of a center diff housing. That's why I use a Torsen in the center diff (as in the rear axle).

View attachment 7843898 View attachment 7843901View attachment 7843900

AWo

I didn’t even know that there’s a Torsen Center diff. Would that mean that the lever for locking it eg in the old Defender would be out of action (half out of action as it still operates the transfer case)?

 

[[ Adam ]]

its both and

I didn’t even know that there’s a Torsen Center diff. Would that mean that the lever for locking it eg in the old Defender would be out of action (half out of action as it still operates the transfer case)?

No, you can still (and should) still manually lock it.

 

[Korg]

The software limitations on making front locker engagement dependent upon rear locker engagement is stupid and unnecessary.
The software code should be commented out. It sounds like a good safety feature but is crap in the real world. Example: Last week I did a few days 4WD'ing around Fraser Island (Australia) and had issues with the locker logic at the infamous Ngkala Rocks. Essentially a very tight traverse through a rock channel and then an ascent up a very steep and sandy hill. Lockers are a "no go" on the rock section as the turns are too tight and friction too great. I requested the Rear lockers immediately at exit of the rock section but the car refuses to allow engagement of the front lockers to climb the sand hill as it has not sensed that the rear lockers are engaged. Repeated forward/reverse did not work. Anyway a bogging resulted even with 15PSI tyres. Very annoying.

I have a driver's license and I am permitted to drive fast on highways, I am permitted to own firearms (not that I do), I am an adult who likes to drive expensive "fit for purpose" cars off road. I want to be able to instruct my car when to activate the lockers and NOT be told "Front lockers are DENIED - rear lockers not yet confirmed, try again later".

Further to this there are situations where the ability to engage front lockers only can be useful. An example is doing a 180 degree turn on a single lane track on the side of a steep hill using front lockers and the handbrake to do a shimmy around on the upward side of the track as is done by Matt in his wrecker in https://www.youtube.com/@MattsOffRoadRecovery

 

[Korg]

From my point of view, the following important advice to all those who have and use diff locks:

If you have switched on the rear and front differential locks off-road and then want to get out of the car to clarify how to continue off-road, do not switch off the engine under any circumstances.
When you start the engine again, the locks do not switch on again (the indicator lights on the switches flash).

You will have to drive a few metres for the lights to go out. Only then can you switch the diff locks on again.

However, this can be really problematic in off-road terrain. Depending on how the ground continues. On a difficult mountain pass road it can also be very dangerous.

INEOS is aware of the problem and will hopefully find a solution.

I can imagine that this also means a software adjustment.

I can confirm that the blinking rear locker light can stay on for days if camped......and agree completely with the above.

 

[Korg]

Rear wheel drive? I think a lot of all wheel drive systems are front wheel biased and the rear is almost a vestigial limb that engages when it has to and allows the vehicle to be called “4WD”…


So the IG has an ESC button that I assume is (electronic stability control) on the over head. And it is marked “Off” so I assume it is on by default and must be turned off to defeat it. So in the german video I assume that they have the ESC off. I also thought when you put it into low it turns off ESC, but that might be my 4Runner.

From what I have seen on videos from vehicles in general is ESC, using the brakes to ‘quiet’ spinning wheels and let wheels with traction transfer power and move the vehicle. That adds heat to the system and you can eventually cause issues.

A lot of vehicles depend on the ESC system for their 4wheel prowess, but it only has limited usability- something that you’d probably never run into in standard driving.

BUT, when you are off road, you can overwork an ESC system. That’s where the IGs system of full time 4WD and lockers doesn’t suffer from that same thing. It will work all day.

At least that is what I see- and I am FAR from a 4WD expert.

Also very important to turn off ESC when driving on sand.

 

[landmannnn]

Further to this there are situations where the ability to engage front lockers only can be useful. An example is doing a 180 degree turn on a single lane track on the side of a steep hill using front lockers and the handbrake to do a shimmy around on the upward side of the track as is done by Matt in his wrecker in https://www.youtube.com/@MattsOffRoadRecovery

To do that it is likely he has a modified transfer box that allows selection of 2 wheel drive to the front axle only.
Also you would want the front diff unlocked otherwise the vehicle would just drag forwards without turning.
It also helps to have a bottomless budget to replace (and upgrade) front axle components.

 

[bigleonski]

The software limitations on making front locker engagement dependent upon rear locker engagement is stupid and unnecessary.
The software code should be commented out. It sounds like a good safety feature but is crap in the real world. Example: Last week I did a few days 4WD'ing around Fraser Island (Australia) and had issues with the locker logic at the infamous Ngkala Rocks. Essentially a very tight traverse through a rock channel and then an ascent up a very steep and sandy hill. Lockers are a "no go" on the rock section as the turns are too tight and friction too great. I requested the Rear lockers immediately at exit of the rock section but the car refuses to allow engagement of the front lockers to climb the sand hill as it has not sensed that the rear lockers are engaged. Repeated forward/reverse did not work. Anyway a bogging resulted even with 15PSI tyres. Very annoying.

I have a driver's license and I am permitted to drive fast on highways, I am permitted to own firearms (not that I do), I am an adult who likes to drive expensive "fit for purpose" cars off road. I want to be able to instruct my car when to activate the lockers and NOT be told "Front lockers are DENIED - rear lockers not yet confirmed, try again later".

Further to this there are situations where the ability to engage front lockers only can be useful. An example is doing a 180 degree turn on a single lane track on the side of a steep hill using front lockers and the handbrake to do a shimmy around on the upward side of the track as is done by Matt in his wrecker in https://www.youtube.com/@MattsOffRoadRecovery

@Korg Ngkala must be average if you’ve needed lockers to get out of the entry and run up the track heading north. We’ve never needed them in 25 years so far.
I suppose we’ll find out at the end of August.

 

[Korg]

@Korg Ngkala must be average if you’ve needed lockers to get out of the entry and run up the track heading north. We’ve never needed them in 25 years so far.
I suppose we’ll find out at the end of August.

It was pretty bad on the way through (north) due to on coming traffic stalling momentum from the rocks and then the lockers not engaging and then of course the sand was "bad" that day. Much better on the way out (south).

 

[Tinerfeño]

If you want to make tricks, open center diff, use handbrake to stop rear wheels, turn steerimg to lock and you can make a turn where inner rear wheel will be practically the center of turning. I have never needed this in real situations but seen been used on off-road trial competiotions.

 

[MileHigh]

Have there been tests done to show that the relationship between the blinking of the indicator and the actual locking the diff? Like is the diff actually locking or unlocking but the indicator is lagging the actual state? I thought there was a question about that in the past?

 

[ECrider]

Have there been tests done to show that the relationship between the blinking of the indicator and the actual locking the diff? Like is the diff actually locking or unlocking but the indicator is lagging the actual state? I thought there was a question about that in the past?

My experience has been they lock and unlock quickly under the right circumstances and the blinking continues well after, more so when unlocking. imo anyway.

 

[rovie]

The diff locks go in and out quickly. After I switch them off, they indicator lights only flash until I take the next bend and the wheel speeds are therefore different.

 

[LWA55DAL]

Once I got accustomed to the process to lock the diffs and after some break-in I have found that the diffs lock and un-lock very quickly. The lights have a tendency to stay on for a while, but that is because the ABS sensors are what actually detect the un-locking of the diffs so you need to turn the vehicle for the system to confirm the diffs are un-locked.

I believe the lockers that INEOS used are the Eaton lockers so they electronically actuate very quickly, but because the only sensors to determine they are unlocked is the ABS - it just takes turning of the wheel.

 

[flynnsk]

The software limitations on making front locker engagement dependent upon rear locker engagement is stupid and unnecessary.
The software code should be commented out. It sounds like a good safety feature but is crap in the real world. Example: Last week I did a few days 4WD'ing around Fraser Island (Australia) and had issues with the locker logic at the infamous Ngkala Rocks. Essentially a very tight traverse through a rock channel and then an ascent up a very steep and sandy hill. Lockers are a "no go" on the rock section as the turns are too tight and friction too great. I requested the Rear lockers immediately at exit of the rock section but the car refuses to allow engagement of the front lockers to climb the sand hill as it has not sensed that the rear lockers are engaged. Repeated forward/reverse did not work. Anyway a bogging resulted even with 15PSI tyres. Very annoying.

I have a driver's license and I am permitted to drive fast on highways, I am permitted to own firearms (not that I do), I am an adult who likes to drive expensive "fit for purpose" cars off road. I want to be able to instruct my car when to activate the lockers and NOT be told "Front lockers are DENIED - rear lockers not yet confirmed, try again later".

Further to this there are situations where the ability to engage front lockers only can be useful. An example is doing a 180 degree turn on a single lane track on the side of a steep hill using front lockers and the handbrake to do a shimmy around on the upward side of the track as is done by Matt in his wrecker in https://www.youtube.com/@MattsOffRoadRecovery

+1. Can not hit /agree any more. There are DEFINITELY times when one would want/need front lockers w/o the need to have the rear engaged, i.e. where need the front to pull up onto/over and want all available power to the one rear wheel that is able to grab.

 

[flynnsk]

Have there been tests done to show that the relationship between the blinking of the indicator and the actual locking the diff? Like is the diff actually locking or unlocking but the indicator is lagging the actual state? I thought there was a question about that in the past?

In the very limited testing we've done, (once familiar with operation) they lock almost instantly.
ex: already in Low/Rear Locked (light on solid), hit the Front Locker button twice (wait 1s->again).
The light will be flashing, waiting to confirm the wheels are locked (need to actually move to confirm).
progress slowly and try to turn the wheel. Even before the red light stops flashing, you can "feel" the front end 'binding'.

 

[K1LL3M]

The double press of the button to activate the lockers appears to be software specific.

From my experience, the orginal software required a double press to activate the lockers, a 2 second hold, then a small moment in between and a press ro confirm. My current software (I think it is x1926) is a single press. A second press disengages them, which fcuks the whole thing up and requires the system to acknowledge they are off, before being able to engage them again.