Contract

[TD5-90]

Got the "grenadier is soon heading for production" email on the 8th of December. Spoke to my agent and he said the contract should be soon, but they aren't directly affecting the delivery schedule

So you got informed exactly the same day as me. Forgot to mention that about 1 1/2 weeks later got a phonecall from my dealer telling me exactly the same as the email, but he had no info if my input to Ineos concerning contract details (VAT etc) had been processed so far. Regarding the contract, he said, they had no influence since the business partner is Ineos, not the dealer....
I really hope that I don't / didn't miss the contract!! I don't have my phone on permanently, and it's kind of embarrassing (was to say: pathetic) that they leave you uninformed for such extended periods, but reserve the right to invalidate your contract if you don't answer within 7 days (at least that's what I learnt here)...

 

[rovie]

So you got informed exactly the same day as me. Forgot to mention that about 1 1/2 weeks later got a phonecall from my dealer telling me exactly the same as the email, but he had no info if my input to Ineos concerning contract details (VAT etc) had been processed so far. Regarding the contract, he said, they had no influence since the business partner is Ineos, not the dealer....
I really hope that I don't / didn't miss the contract!! I don't have my phone on permanently, and it's kind of embarrassing (was to say: pathetic) that they leave you uninformed for such extended periods, but reserve the right to invalidate your contract if you don't answer within 7 days (at least that's what I learnt here)...

Don't worry, you won't miss the contract notice. The email clearly refers to the contract. Maybe it's because of the VAT in your case. I buy privately and not for business. So I pay the full VAT on the purchase.

 

[TD5-90]

Don't worry, you won't miss the contract notice. The email clearly refers to the contract. Maybe it's because of the VAT in your case. I buy privately and not for business. So I pay the full VAT on the purchase.

One has to pay the price with VAT, even when buying with a business, but can claim it back afterwards...

 

[rovie]

One has to pay the price with VAT, even when buying with a business, but can claim it back afterwards...

Then it must be different in Luxembourg. I have an acquaintance who told me that he doesn't have to pay VAT when he buys a car, because this payment is only due when the car is sold. And then it depends on the sale price, which is much lower than the new price.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Within the European Union, you don't invoice VAT when the invoice is outside your own country to another European country (my last invoice was from Belgium to Portugal: 0% VAT). But, in the monthly or three-monthly tax and VAT declaration you have to inform tax authorities about these invoices.
When I make an invoice to a Belgian company, I invoice it with 21% % VAT, and I can get it back: it is is a balance between incoming and outgoing invoices. When your business is healthy you usually have more outgoing invoices than incoming invoices.

My explanation isn't that of an accountant, it is my engineers explanation, I don't understand the languages of accountants, as they don't understand my language with due respect

 

[Maxwell]

Sometimes I get the impression that IA is not serious about selling to us early committers. After having received three faulty contacts, I finally received a correct contract (with the correct configuration). About 2 weeks later I received a new email asking me to sign the contract (a new contract again). In the login area it also shows that my time to sign the contract expired. I called my agent who told me that everything is fine and my car will be build. The hotline however told me that my contract was voided and promised that a guy from IA would call me to get things sortetd. So far I haven’t received such a call… It is more than frustrating.

 

[TD5-90]

Then it must be different in Luxembourg. I have an acquaintance who told me that he doesn't have to pay VAT when he buys a car, because this payment is only due when the car is sold. And then it depends on the sale price, which is much lower than the new price.

I don't think so. In general: _Every_ invoice contains VAT and has to be paid _including_ VAT.
With your monthly VAT declaration you can claim the difference of paid and collected VAT. If you have paid more VAT than collected, you get some money back. For a business making profit, collected VAT is aways higher than spent VAT, the net VAT you pay is always positive (a positive figure, not positive in the meaning of "good" ;-) )
When you sell the car (or any other business property), you have to add VAT to the selling price, and hand this VAT over to the government.

I'm talking about buying and selling within a (EU) country. Things get different when you sell or buy across borders...

 

[TD5-90]

Within the European Union, you don't invoice VAT when the invoice is outside your own country to another European country (my last invoice was from Belgium to Portugal: 0% VAT). But, in the monthly or three-monthly tax and VAT declaration you have to inform tax authorities about these invoices.
When I make an invoice to a Belgian company, I invoice it with 21% % VAT, and I can get it back: it is is a balance between incoming and outgoing invoices. When your business is healthy you usually have more outgoing invoices than incoming invoices.

My explanation isn't that of an accountant, it is my engineers explanation, I don't understand the languages of accountants, as they don't understand my language with due respect

Neither couldn't I have explained it better, nor quicker ;-) ! And yes: I'm an engineer running a business, and therefore my accountant knowledge is just as marginal to survive and stay with one foot out of jail...

 

[TD5-90]

Sometimes I get the impression that IA is not serious about selling to us early committers. After having received three faulty contacts, I finally received a correct contract (with the correct configuration). About 2 weeks later I received a new email asking me to sign the contract (a new contract again). In the login area it also shows that my time to sign the contract expired. I called my agent who told me that everything is fine and my car will be build. The hotline however told me that my contract was voided and promised that a guy from IA would call me to get things sortetd. So far I haven’t received such a call… It is more than frustrating.

It's experiences like yours that tell me there's problems to be expected...
I'm not worried that we finally will receive our cars, but feel a bit embarrassed, and to me it seems Ineos is standing in its own way.

 

[rovie]

I don't think so. In general: _Every_ invoice contains VAT and has to be paid _including_ VAT.
With your monthly VAT declaration you can claim the difference of paid and collected VAT. If you have paid more VAT than collected, you get some money back. For a business making profit, collected VAT is aways higher than spent VAT, the net VAT you pay is always positive (a positive figure, not positive in the meaning of "good" ;-) )
When you sell the car (or any other business property), you have to add VAT to the selling price, and hand this VAT over to the government.

I'm talking about buying and selling within a (EU) country. Things get different when you sell or buy across borders...

I am at a loss. I believed him when he said that. He works in the European Parliament and special rules seem to apply there.

But never mind. We only came up with it because I thought that there would be delays because of the VAT issue.

But wait and see, the contract will come.

 

[TD5-90]

I am at a loss. I believed him when he said that. He works in the European Parliament and special rules seem to apply there.

But never mind. We only came up with it because I thought that there would be delays because of the VAT issue.

But wait and see, the contract will come.

If I'm not trustworthy, Jean should be.
EP: From what you say it seems that at least one person is "working" there. Hard to believe though...

 

[Jean Mercier]

It's experiences like yours that tell me there's problems to be expected...
I'm not worried that we finally will receive our cars, but feel a bit embarrassed, and to me it seems Ineos is standing in its own way.

I also think we will get our car's ...
But indeed Ineos is standing it's own way.
There are some contradictions: sir Jim is British; he decided finally to build his "German-Italian- ..." (Carraro) car in Austria (prototypes) and finally in France in a German factory (Mercedes) with a German motor (BMW) ...
"Sir Jim" decided to vote BREXIT!!!!!!
Hmmm ... why build your car on "The Continent" then, business as usual?
With due respect to "Jim", looks to be a nice guy, with his own beliefs

 

[TD5-90]

Jean, may I direct you to my post https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/when-pr-goes-wrong.12410724/post-1333138231 (By the way: How do I quote a post correctly?) )
I think it's worth to watch the whole video, if you want to learn about Sir Jim.
To me it seems he's right with every single thing he says. Nearly every single thing is diametrally different to today's mainstream. The only thing that makes me ponder is that he thinks Germany is so much better than Britain in certain respects...

We need more people like him. But that's the opinion of an old, white (not wise) man... And I don't mean Sir Jim.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Jean, may I direct you to my post https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/when-pr-goes-wrong.12410724/post-1333138231 (By the way: How do I quote a post correctly?) )
I think it's worth to watch the whole video, if you want to learn about Sir Jim.
To me it seems he's right with every single thing he says. Nearly every single thing is diametrally different to today's mainstream. We need more people like him.
But that's the opinion of an old, white (not wise) man... And I don't mean Sir Jim.

I'll look at the video, I promise

 

[Jean Mercier]

I looked at the video ... the guy is amazing, no doubt about it, otherwise he wouldn't have built INEOS and "or" Grenadier!
For me, he is a "hero" (I exaggerate here, but I admire him), but I am not, was never, and will never be a purely "Belgian" or Flemish or Walloon or Brasilian (my kids are half-Brasilians, or Polish or Hungarians ... some of my grand-kids are partially)
... eh ... the world is more and more global. He is British and only speaks about Britain, that's my only disappointment.
But he has a clear view, and rational: I don't like pure political views. I agree with 90% of what he is saying, 5% i disagree, and 5% I didn't understand because my mother tongue isn't English

 

[TD5-90]

I looked at the video ... the guy is amazing, no doubt about it, otherwise he wouldn't have built INEOS and "or" Grenadier!
For me, he is a "hero" (I exaggerate here, but I admire him), but I am not, was never, and will never be a purely "Belgian" or Flemish or Walloon or Brasilian (my kids are half-Brasilians, or Polish or Hungarians ... some of my grand-kids are partially)
... eh ... the world is more and more global. He is British and only speaks about Britain, that's my only disappointment.
But he has a clear view, and rational: I don't like pure political views. I agree with 90% of what he is saying, 5% i disagree, and 5% I didn't understand because my mother tongue isn't English

My opinion: He's undoubtedly a local patriot, in the most positive sense. Nothing to be disappointed about, in my view. And he is having a really hard time, since his contribution to his homeland obviously seems to be continuously underestimated by the political class.
By far not every aspect of globalization is positive; just denying your roots doesn't make you a citizen of the world...

I think we get in trouble soon when we have to explain to Stu what all this has to do with "Contracts" ;-)

 

[Jean Mercier]

Ok Ok ... I agree ... 100%

 

[DCPU]

I think we get in trouble soon when we have to explain to Stu what all this has to do with "Contracts" ;-)

The video you linked has it's own thread ~ so you can't really go off topic with these thoughts there

Leading through disruption - an interview with Sir Jim Ratcliffe

A lengthy interview with an FT journalist in front of a live audience. A good listen on a number of topics, but if you want the snippets on the Grenadier then jump to 54:50 & 1:15:00. He talks of road testing it in the UK recently with Lewis Hamilton driving and says it's a fantastic road...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[TD5-90]

The video you linked has it's own thread ~ so you can't really go off topic with these thoughts there

Leading through disruption - an interview with Sir Jim Ratcliffe

A lengthy interview with an FT journalist in front of a live audience. A good listen on a number of topics, but if you want the snippets on the Grenadier then jump to 54:50 & 1:15:00. He talks of road testing it in the UK recently with Lewis Hamilton driving and says it's a fantastic road...

www.theineosforum.com

Wow, didn't notice! The full credits (+ a bonus) is yours!!
Thanks!
What I don't understand: No (zero) comments on YT on this video. Or did I miss they don't allow comments?

 

[DaveB]

Wow, didn't notice! The full credits (+ a bonus) is yours!!
Thanks!
What I don't understand: No (zero) comments on YT on this video. Or did I miss they don't allow comments?

Yes.
Or no