China vs USA build quality

[holdmybeer]

I bring this up here because I've seen some opinions about "Chinese junk" on the forum. (And I've mostly agreed.) I personally still have an old-fashioned bias that says "made in the USA (or Canada or Europe)" is probably better than "made in China". For most things. But is it?

I think it's important to question my bias once in a while since the world is different. Lately I've seen European Tesla owners talking about specifically avoiding US-made models and preferring the Chinese-made ones. This transition started in some countries in 2021. How times change.

Thread: "Big difference between US and China build quality?"

I know we're not forseeing full manufacturing of a Grenadier in China in the short term. But you never know.

*** Disclaimer: I'm not talking about Chinese domestic or foreign policy. The former can be morally abhorrent sometimes. This is just about strides some Chinese industries have made in quality. Credit where credit is due IMO. But China's position on individual and human rights ... leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Tazzieman]

Stereotyping and uneducated biases float like turds on the seas of forums!
20 years ago Korean cars were "rubbish" , in the 70s my parents banged on about "Japanese plastic"..
Who can remember the millions of crappily built British and Australian cars?
The world has moved on in terms of build quality and quality control.
That said, there is crap out there - and factory workers may be exploited and paid a pittance.

At the end of the day if the quality isn't at least as good as the locally made product , buyers will disappear.
Sometimes you get what you pay for.
A Grenadier is neither cheap nor cheerful! But it does make me happy.

 

[flynnsk]

I guess I'm old enough to recall when China meant getting the Best you had available. Over the last handful of decades, protectionism and capitalism have collided and/or overlapped to the point there "Made In <Insert Country of Origin>" , means very little, you have potential to get <poop emoji> / <rainbow emoji> no matter where comes from. I myself, am more concerned with the Made By and Made With.

 

[Sam]

Racism.

Good and bad outcomes are possible in any assembly plant. When I was an Engineer for an English product manufacturer with assembly lines in both England and China, there were cultural obstacles, but the Chinese products had better quality, for a range of reasons.

Credit where credit is due IMO. But China's position on individual and human rights ... leaves a lot to be desired.

Lets not get political on here. China is not perfect, but it's populace get basic healthcare and low gun crime.

 

[Sam]

"Made In <Insert Country of Origin>" , means very little

Yep.

"Assembled in..." , "Designed in..." - other ways in which manufacturers try to distance themselves from the global/ low-cost realities of their supply chain [Ineos included]

 

[nuclearbeef]

Racism.

Chinese products had better quality

Just so I have this straight...

"English products are better quality" = Racism
"Chinese products are better quality" = no racism

Got it.

 

[Sam]

Nope.

What I said:

When I was an Engineer for an English product manufacturer with assembly lines in both England and China, there were cultural obstacles, but the Chinese products had better quality, for a range of reasons.

What I didn't say:

"Chinese products are better quality"

And the reason I didn't say that is because in my lived experience:

Good and bad outcomes are possible in any assembly plant.

Learn to read.

 

[255/85]

Chinese craftsman are every bit as skilled as craftsmen from any other country. If we ask them to build junk they will. If we ask them to build top quality products they will.

 

[AnD3rew]

You can build quality anywhere if you manage the manufacturing process and have good quality systems and are prepared to pay for it. Usually if you get bad quality it means you have cut corners, usually for cost reasons and haven’t managed the process. Chinese originated products have been on the journey that Japan, Korea etc went through in the past from rubbish knock off counterfeit products, to lower cost but moderate quality value products and now to domestic industries making very high quality products. Right now if you buy a Chinese manufactured product from a quality MNC company you will likely get quality as good as anything comparable. If you buy a product from a Chinese domestic manufacturer it is more variable, some are still rubbish, some are becoming decent quality.

 

[bigleonski]

There has been more than one caravan salesman who has commented that Chinese built vans are now better quality than a lot of “Australian made” ones.

Now not surprisingly those that made that comment were selling Chinese vans, but you wonder about how much truth is in it.

I walked past a Tank 300 today though - pretty sure I’m not interested in seeing how long that takes to fall apart.

 

[trobex]

China produces the largest amount of perishable junk in the world for the 'today' market. Particularly clothing, shoes, other decorative things that humans like to wear which is now one the largest contributors to landfill.

They also produce most electronic goods & appliances and let's be honest - TV, phone, laptop, fridges, cooking appliances etc which are made in China (branded under good QA companies) are quite well built.

China built Tesla's seemed to perform as good (maybe better) than the US made ones... I think attitudes between suppliers and the workforce in the two countries is vastly different and that feeds down to quality.

China also produces most of the raw building materials we use in Australia. Steel stud, re bar, plywood and other timber products, tiles, glass and aluminium framing etc. The quality for the most part is on par with Australian goods. HOWEVER, some fabricators in China are abhorrent, particularly window and door supply from China - so you get what you pay for.

Summary
China will overtake most of the world for quality in the near future, as their raw costs and workers' rights and other abuses of their people will allow them to do so. For now, though, they will build their 'stuff' as close to a replica of what other countries RND allows and sell for a cheaper price. It is how they become the largest manufacturer in the world without having to do much RND themselves.

 

[trobex]

Yep.

"Assembled in..." , "Designed in..." - other ways in which manufacturers try to distance themselves from the global/ low-cost realities of their supply chain [Ineos included]

Like Australian companies who say, "Australian Owned since XXXX date" with big flags and Kangaroos all over their sites. You know full well its imported and I do not support that crap. The problem is, when most raw material used to 'make' something is from China, would it actually be considered Australian Made? I treat the whole Australian Made things as a 50/50 coin flip.

 

[holdmybeer]

Lets not get political on here. China is not perfect, but it's populace get basic healthcare and low gun crime.

Why do you think pointing out decent policy in China (e.g. healthcare & guns) is *not* political, but pointing out indecent policy (e.g. lack of free speech and persecution of racial/religious minorities) *is* political?

 

[YellowLab]

Racism.

Good and bad outcomes are possible in any assembly plant. When I was an Engineer for an English product manufacturer with assembly lines in both England and China, there were cultural obstacles, but the Chinese products had better quality, for a range of reasons.



Lets not get political on here. China is not perfect, but it's populace get basic healthcare and low gun crime.

You say 'Don't get political here' - then post a comment and a US flag meant to invoke anger those from the US? At least we know how you roll.....

 

[LC0013]

Lets not get political on here. China is not perfect, but it's populace get basic healthcare and low gun crime.

And the Chinese Communist Party gets slave labour....

 

[Trialmaster]

China does make quality components, in that there is NO debate.

However, what really concerns me is that they are slowly annihilating all industry world wide. For example in the UK, people are buying SAIC built cars (badged as MG) as psychologically they think they are buying British. And the sad part is people think they are buying British, very clever on the Communists part. Plus the vehicles are reviewed as cheap and very good - this is the problem.

I think China will clean up on the EV market and if Europe does not respond, EV manufacturing will cease in Europe. China missed out on ICE engines, but now definitely leads the world with EV vehicles.

But it just isn't cars, its tech, its military, its clothing its everything. The end result will be countries competing with China for energy and food and China will win as they already own large tracts of Australia, Africa and South America. The cost of living will increase as their dominance increases.

They are very clever, they invest in companies that are floundering and then change the rules and end up owning the companies, by default, then they invest. Research Africa and this has happened numerous times.

Personally, I try to avoid buying anything Chinese, but we know it's nigh on impossible to avoid buying anything produced in China. Two yers ago, we considered buying an EVVolvo XC40 and said to the salesman if it's built in China I don't want it. He saiid don't be silly and have a test drive and I'll find out where it is manufactured.

We drove and loved it, he then said it was built in China, I said no thanks and left, he was gob-smacked. But I've worked in Hong Kong and have seen how the Chinese operate.

 

[Shopkeep]

And the Chinese Communist Party gets slave labour....

Hmmmmm.......have any democratic western countries ever utilised slave labour in the past???

 

[LC0013]

Hmmmmm.......have any democratic western countries ever utilised slave labour in the past???

Sure, USA 150 years years ago.
Does China have any Labor Unions?
And you had your own slave labor down under, right.
No excuse for it to exist now.

 

[Tazzieman]

Sure, USA 150 years years ago.
Does China have any Labor Unions?
And you had your own slave labor down under, right.
No excuse for it to exist now.

Local labour costs killed the Australian car industry and many manufacturing concerns , because unionised people quite reasonably demanded fair pay and conditions.
Of course then Australian people have had to purchase similar products from overseas, products made of many components sourced from many factories all over the world. "Made in Germany/England/USA" should be taken with a large grain of Himalayan salt!
Any country can (and many still certainly do!) exploit illegal/new immigrants , but it's somewhat hard to get away with that in a large manufacturing concern.
If people take an ethical stand against buying products from countries exploiting locals, they go without. The choice is not necessarily there, especially if they are on a budget (the overwhelming majority of people).

 

[YellowLab]

So here is a great link for topics of this nature - facebook.com - no offense, but we can all fight over magic mushroom versus eldoret blue here.....