Car breakdown with emergency mode

[Reinhard]

Hello Grenadier world,
on an Iceland trip over the highland tracks and trails, the Grenadier has proven itself in this rainy summer of 2024.

In the Trialmaster standard equipment, all alluvial plains, river crossings, rocky stretches etc. were mastered.
Unfortunately, there was one glitch. The sonic wheel for the speed sensor on the rear right wheel was apparently damaged by a stone. In principle, only one spoke was slightly bent, which led to an error message in the system. That wouldn't have been so bad, but the fault led to the activation of the emergency running program, in which only a small amount of power is available.
It was no longer possible to activate the off-road mode.

Fortunately, there were no more challenging passages ahead, so we were able to reach our accommodation after an arduous drive in emergency mode.

The next day, Einar from the Icelandic Grenadier Service helped us super quickly and competently and repaired the damage. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Einar once again for his help.

For the future, I wish that the off-road mode could be activated again in these cases (even at your own risk) so that you can continue driving safely.

Have any of you had similar experiences?
Based on my experiences in Iceland, I will have the Grenadier raised with springs and dampers and convert 285/70 tires to 17-inch rims.
Among other things, I hope that this will make driving on bumpy roads and gravel tracks more pleasant.

Best regards
Reinhard

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[alexandruast]

https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/have-you-encountered-abs-tone-ring-damage.12416726/

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Hello Grenadier world,
on an Iceland trip over the highland tracks and trails, the Grenadier has proven itself in this rainy summer of 2024.

In the Trialmaster standard equipment, all alluvial plains, river crossings, rocky stretches etc. were mastered.
Unfortunately, there was one glitch. The sonic wheel for the speed sensor on the rear right wheel was apparently damaged by a stone. In principle, only one spoke was slightly bent, which led to an error message in the system. That wouldn't have been so bad, but the fault led to the activation of the emergency running program, in which only a small amount of power is available.
It was no longer possible to activate the off-road mode.

Fortunately, there were no more challenging passages ahead, so we were able to reach our accommodation after an arduous drive in emergency mode.

The next day, Einar from the Icelandic Grenadier Service helped us super quickly and competently and repaired the damage. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Einar once again for his help.

For the future, I wish that the off-road mode could be activated again in these cases (even at your own risk) so that you can continue driving safely.

Have any of you had similar experiences?
Based on my experiences in Iceland, I will have the Grenadier raised with springs and dampers and convert 285/70 tires to 17-inch rims.
Among other things, I hope that this will make driving on bumpy roads and gravel tracks more pleasant.

Best regards
Reinhard

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Glad you got out of there. Just remember the drive shaft issue if you do a lift - a blown shaft and you’re out of commission

 

[holdmybeer]

@Reinhard ... great story and great outcome! More reason to have confidence in our trucks, though I agree being able to purposefully override an emergency/limp-mode setting would be consistent with our vehicles' purposeful design.

It has been said before here, but if the OBD/bus protocols were published by INEOS then owners and the aftermarket may be able to better control/adjust/override their vehicles when necessary.

Keep on truckin'.

 

[Shopkeep]

Hello Grenadier world,
on an Iceland trip over the highland tracks and trails, the Grenadier has proven itself in this rainy summer of 2024.

In the Trialmaster standard equipment, all alluvial plains, river crossings, rocky stretches etc. were mastered.
Unfortunately, there was one glitch. The sonic wheel for the speed sensor on the rear right wheel was apparently damaged by a stone. In principle, only one spoke was slightly bent, which led to an error message in the system. That wouldn't have been so bad, but the fault led to the activation of the emergency running program, in which only a small amount of power is available.
It was no longer possible to activate the off-road mode.

Fortunately, there were no more challenging passages ahead, so we were able to reach our accommodation after an arduous drive in emergency mode.

The next day, Einar from the Icelandic Grenadier Service helped us super quickly and competently and repaired the damage. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Einar once again for his help.

For the future, I wish that the off-road mode could be activated again in these cases (even at your own risk) so that you can continue driving safely.

Have any of you had similar experiences?
Based on my experiences in Iceland, I will have the Grenadier raised with springs and dampers and convert 285/70 tires to 17-inch rims.
Among other things, I hope that this will make driving on bumpy roads and gravel tracks more pleasant.

Best regards
Reinhard

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Hey @Reinhard do you know if they replaced the ABS tone ring or bent it back into shape? If they bent it back did they have to remove the ring or repaired in place?

 

[alexandruast]

Hey Reinhard, do you know if they replaced the ABS tone ring or bent it back into shape? If they bent it back did they have to remove the ring or repaired in place?

I am also interested in how this was fixed. Mine is at the dealership, the tone ring arrived as a replacement part, but the tool to press the ring does not exist. They are currently trying to improvise some kind of vice. In the Netherlands, a customer received a new vehicle under warranty because of this - dealership unable to fix, fully equipped axle unavailable as a spare (on backorder), so they replaced the vehicle. I am absolutely positive there is a way to insert it without the "specialized" tool.

 

[Shopkeep]

I am also interested in how this was fixed. Mine is at the dealership, the tone ring arrived as a replacement part, but the tool to press the ring does not exist. They are currently trying to improvise some kind of vice. In the Netherlands, a customer received a new vehicle under warranty because of this - dealership unable to fix, fully equipped axle unavailable as a spare (on backorder), so they replaced the vehicle. I am absolutely positive there is a way to insert it without the "specialized" tool.

@alexandruast do you have any other pictures of the tone ring and how it is mounted that you have not already posted?

 

[bemax]

Hello Grenadier world,
on an Iceland trip over the highland tracks and trails, the Grenadier has proven itself in this rainy summer of 2024.

In the Trialmaster standard equipment, all alluvial plains, river crossings, rocky stretches etc. were mastered.
Unfortunately, there was one glitch. The sonic wheel for the speed sensor on the rear right wheel was apparently damaged by a stone. In principle, only one spoke was slightly bent, which led to an error message in the system. That wouldn't have been so bad, but the fault led to the activation of the emergency running program, in which only a small amount of power is available.
It was no longer possible to activate the off-road mode.

Fortunately, there were no more challenging passages ahead, so we were able to reach our accommodation after an arduous drive in emergency mode.

The next day, Einar from the Icelandic Grenadier Service helped us super quickly and competently and repaired the damage. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Einar once again for his help.

For the future, I wish that the off-road mode could be activated again in these cases (even at your own risk) so that you can continue driving safely.

Have any of you had similar experiences?
Based on my experiences in Iceland, I will have the Grenadier raised with springs and dampers and convert 285/70 tires to 17-inch rims.
Among other things, I hope that this will make driving on bumpy roads and gravel tracks more pleasant.

Best regards
Reinhard

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Good to hear that everything went well in the end!
What was your biggest concern about the not working off-road mode? It was not the working parking sensor for sure.
best regards
bemax

Gut zu hören, dass alles am Ende gut ausgegangen ist. Was was ist denn dein Hauptkritikpunkt an dem nicht funktionierenden off-road Modus im Notprogramm? Es war sicher nicht die nicht abgeschalteten Park Piepser.
Beste Grüße,
bemax

 

[alexandruast]

@alexandruast do you have any other pictures of the tone ring and how it is mounted that you have not already posted?

Just the ones posted here, there is also a video among them:

Grenadier almost killed me (or/and someone else)

I had a very scary moment with my IG a few days ago. I decided to write about it, because I feel that Ineos doesn't care about Grenadier owners, whatsoever. More on that, later. Now, the incident: It was an early cold morning, driving on a very busy national road (Romania, DN1). I was just...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[Braydo]

Interesting that you got limp mode in this scenario. I lost the wheel speed sensor cable to the front right wheel. Got a Christmas tree of warnings which you’d expect given the systems that take wheel speed data, and it messed with auto gear selection (it was later explained to me that the car defaults to a particular speed reading in this scenario, and gear shifts take wheel speed as one of the readings in selecting gears) but in manual mode it drove normally even to 110km/h. I was actually pleased with the vehicle’s response, although I think it would be better to take wheel speed from remaining sensors in the case one is taken out, rather than default to an arbitrary value.

Given your damage was to a different component, I wonder whether unplugging the sensor cable might have taken it out of limp mode and given the same result as I got?

 

[TD5-90]

Good to hear that everything went well in the end!
What was your biggest concern about the not working off-road mode? It was not the working parking sensor for sure.
best regards
bemax

Gut zu hören, dass alles am Ende gut ausgegangen ist. Was was ist denn dein Hauptkritikpunkt an dem nicht funktionierenden off-road Modus im Notprogramm? Es war sicher nicht die nicht abgeschalteten Park Piepser.
Beste Grüße,
bemax

As I understood, the problem was the limp mode with nearly no power available, not the missing off-road mode.

 

[GN4HIR]

Is anyone making a rock shield for the ring? Seems we have seen a couple of these breakdowns.

 

[bemax]

As I understood, the problem was the limp mode with nearly no power available, not the missing off-road mode.

Are you sure?
„For the future, I wish that the off-road mode could be activated again in these cases (even at your own risk) so that you can continue driving safely.“

 

[255/85]

Are you sure?
„For the future, I wish that the off-road mode could be activated again in these cases (even at your own risk) so that you can continue driving safely.“

As I understood, the problem was the limp mode with nearly no power available, not the missing off-road mode.

Sounds like both to me. The OP said this:

...the fault led to the activation of the emergency running program, in which only a small amount of power is available.
It was no longer possible to activate the off-road mode.

 

[Shopkeep]

Is anyone making a rock shield for the ring? Seems we have seen a couple of these breakdowns.

There is a shield around the ring, but there is a gap around the brake caliper where small stones may enter.

 

[Reinhard]

Hey @Reinhard do you know if they replaced the ABS tone ring or bent it back into shape? If they bent it back did they have to remove the ring or repaired in place?

Hey
They bent it back into shape without removing the ring.
This was done on my own risk

 

[Reinhard]

I am also interested in how this was fixed. Mine is at the dealership, the tone ring arrived as a replacement part, but the tool to press the ring does not exist. They are currently trying to improvise some kind of vice. In the Netherlands, a customer received a new vehicle under warranty because of this - dealership unable to fix, fully equipped axle unavailable as a spare (on backorder), so they replaced the vehicle. I am absolutely positive there is a way to insert it without the "specialized" tool.

Hello, Einar from the Grenadier Service in Iceland fixed it while it was still installed.

 

[alexandruast]

Hello, Einar from the Grenadier Service in Iceland fixed it while it was still installed.

FYI, the system works not by reading each gap, but by generating a frequency tone. When waves intersects, action is required from ABS/ESC modules. This mode of operation is very fast for computers, requires no complex computations. BUT... the downside is that the outputs are probabilistic in nature (they are not 100% deterministic and are affected by metal quality, shape etc...). When the system is new or unaffected, there is little to no deviation. Because of the way the system works, any slight deviation of the tone assembly will make the probability works against you (engage when not needed, do not engage when needed). Having the tone ring slightly bent or one of the holes enlarged just a bit will make the system behave erratically and at random times. It's not everything about having or not having an error on dash (bending the ring back into shape might fix the error, but it does not entirely fix the system).

 

[AWo]

FYI II.:

There are four methods, or better generations, of ABS sensors:
DF6
DF10
DF11
VDA

DF6
That is a passive sensor with metal sensor gears. The sensor is a permanent magnet which is wrapped into a solenoid. When the gears pass the sensor they change the magnetic field which and generate a Sinus signal send to the ECU. You need to drive about 30 km/h to make the signal useful. It is prone to be fooled by dirt.

DF10
That is an active sensor and it is independent of the rpm. Older DF10 sensors have a magnet newer use a N/S/N/S usw. pattern on a ring at the hub or wheel bearing. It is called active as it needs a 12 V or 5 V power supply. So you can see two cables. The signal generated is a square wave, as a semiconductor element switches the signal on and of according the magnet pattern of the ring. This system is able to detect forward or backward moving.

DF11
This mechanism is based on pulse-width-modulation PWM. The signal has a default length of 45μs. If this signal is extended by 2, 4, 8 or more times it is possible to detect errors. It is also possible to detect if the sensor is broken or the car is stationary. When the car is not moving the sensor still sends a frequent signal, telling it is ok.

VDA
With the new PSI5 interface, also used for airbags, the sensor sends a signal and 9 bits of information. Some of these 9 bits can bee freely used by the car manufacturer, so their use is not known. VDA is very prone to malfunction due to bearing contamination or damages.

AWo

 

[Reinhard]

FYI, the system works not by reading each gap, but by generating a frequency tone. When waves intersects, action is required from ABS/ESC modules. This mode of operation is very fast for computers, requires no complex computations. BUT... the downside is that the outputs are probabilistic in nature (they are not 100% deterministic and are affected by metal quality, shape etc...). When the system is new or unaffected, there is little to no deviation. Because of the way the system works, any slight deviation of the tone assembly will make the probability works against you (engage when not needed, do not engage when needed). Having the tone ring slightly bent or one of the holes enlarged just a bit will make the system behave erratically and at random times. It's not everything about having or not having an error on dash (bending the ring back into shape might fix the error, but it does not entirely fix the system).

Hi,
after straightening the spoke, all error messages went out and the car has been running flawlessly ever since.