Battery SOC setpoint very low

[CHM]

Hi all

I experience the following symptoms with my factory dual battery setup.
Note: I ride around with a ARB fridge pretty much permanently connected and on. So I am inadvertantly testing the system long term.

Symptoms:

The battery charge display reports my SOC as 63% with a charge current of 3A. Sometimes this setpoint moves, the highest I have seen it at is 83%.
Initially, the charge current is very large (>80A) but quickly drops to these trickle charge levels.

My Point of View to Ineos:

I am ignoring the fact that the dual battery setup architecture is not what we would typically prefer in the South African and Australian markets (probably elsewhere).
The selected architecture does not isolate the primary and secondary battery to create two 12 DC buses. It effectively combines the two batteries in a 200 aH battery by connecting the two batteries in parallel. This means that the secondary battery has to have the same chemistry as the primary battery. It also implies that the charge current and SOC we see on the screen is that of the combined 200 aH battery. Again, this post is not about this architecture choice.

The symptoms I experience whereby my charging system thinks it's job is done at 63% SOC is effectively limiting me to use 13% of my 200aH battery. This is because the effective deep-level discharge of the provided batteries is 50% (confirmed by the multiple alarms I have experienced). This renders the system inadequate for propper overlanding use where I would typically have lights etc. in addition to my fridge.

I believe what I bought was meant for overlanding and now Ineos seems to be implying this system objective is to help the vehicle start.

The solution/blame does not lie in fiddling with the provided battery combiner as it is not responsible for charging the battery. The battery is charged by the smart alternator which is controlled by the system software (which I think is provided by BMW).

The variable setpoint experience I have had indicates a bug.

The lower than 100% SOC setpoint indicates some attempt to protect the batteries.

My Experience with Ineos:

My vehicle has been in 4 of 5 times for this issue. Both batteries have been replaced. Generally, the local dealer has no idea how the electrics work, which I suspect is a training issue from Ineos.

This week an "expert" looked at my vehicle and took measurements on his way back to Europe.

Based on my local support people's response when picking up the car they are going to tell me it works as designed

My Request:

 

[CHM]

My Request:
Please can you guys share and knowledge and advise on this issue.

Regards, Carl

 

[Quartermaster]

The selected architecture does not isolate the primary and secondary battery to create two 12 DC buses. It effectively combines the two batteries in a 200 aH battery by connecting the two batteries in parallel. This means that the secondary battery has to have the same chemistry as the primary battery. It also implies that the charge current and SOC we see on the screen is that of the combined 200 aH battery. Again, this post is not about this architecture choice.

Hi carl,
that´s not right. The Batteries are only connected when:
- the generator is charging
- the smartpass detects a weak starterbattery and connects the secondary battery for a few seconds to assist
- the starterbattery is low in voltage, then the secondary trickles
The SOC shown is only from starter battery, i tested that.

 

[Quartermaster]

I have the same problem with too few charging at e.g. 63% SOC, but that seems to be a fault.

 

[CHM]

I have the same problem with too few charging at e.g. 63% SOC, but that seems to be a fault.

Fault you say, but has Ineos admitted to this at all?

 

[Quartermaster]

I don´t know, but they changed my starter batterie because the said it would not take up enough current (my car is still in the garage because of unusable radio). My main complaint was high discharge because some electric component did not shut mostly, regardless of closing the doors or locked/ unlocked. They said, a defective battery could cause this. At least one member of this forum has no discharge problems anymore after battery renewing.

 

[Quartermaster]

Look here, post # 5:

Battery drain - what is causing it?

Hi toghether First off all I would like to express that I am very happy with the Grenadier - just to start in the right manner 😉😂 Okay that said here comes the topic I need to understand: That the battery drained in the Grenadier is discussed as far as I know. My question is: what is causing...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[landmannnn]

Arguably best to ignore the SOC gauge.

12.8v is fully charged, 12.05v is 50%. I am over simplifying.

It looks like the BMW derived charging system reduces to a trickle charge when it thinks the battery is about 80% charged, around 12.6v.

 

[Skydance]

It’s not right. At 82% SOC, mine charges at 5 amps all the way to 90% then drops down to 2 amps. Ineos nor the dealers don’t even know why? End up changing everything like batteries etc and it’s still the same after the new battery runs down.

So if it doesn’t charge properly, the batteries are draining every time you open a door and eventually you will get stranded. So make sure you carry a jump starter pack or regularly trickle charge your battery.

It’s a known issue reported (search the forum). Not everyone has this issue of course but mine was mysteriously fixed with the dealer reprogramming/resetting the software relating to the trailer module. It’s a software issue relating to the battery monitor system. It can be fixed, it’s how. Like you said maybe they can alter the set point values.

Also sometimes, it varies but it can charge upto 14.4 volts.

 

[ipcrss]

I have a "normal" SOC in the region of 60% or less and a red warning at the start of every day. Charging is indicated between 60% and 63% (5 to 8 amps) and it throttles back to 1amp at 63/64% staying on an amber warning. I only have a single battery and have had it swapped already and a few other things checked, cleaned and tested on 4 or 5 visits to the agents over the last year. Some of the things they did appeared to help temporarily but a manually charged 100% battery and 100% SOC on the monitor masks the problem for a while until the "normal" SOC returns. I still have an open ticket with Ineos as no progress has been made to fix this issue over the last year. I am still waiting for a reply. It has also been suggested that the SOC and charging monitor is in error (and/or the components that feed into this monitor) rather than the "real" SOC of the battery and "real" charge rate.
As Skydance suggests, a recalibration of the trailer module that feeds into the SOC monitor might help, as it did with him. Please let us all know.

 

[CHM]

Arguably best to ignore the SOC gauge.

12.8v is fully charged, 12.05v is 50%. I am over simplifying.

It looks like the BMW derived charging system reduces to a trickle charge when it thinks the battery is about 80% charged, around 12.6v.

That is mostly my experience, but currently stuck at 63%. Unusable.

 

[CHM]

I have a "normal" SOC in the region of 60% or less and a red warning at the start of every day. Charging is indicated between 60% and 63% (5 to 8 amps) and it throttles back to 1amp at 63/64% staying on an amber warning. I only have a single battery and have had it swapped already and a few other things checked, cleaned and tested on 4 or 5 visits to the agents over the last year. Some of the things they did appeared to help temporarily but a manually charged 100% battery and 100% SOC on the monitor masks the problem for a while until the "normal" SOC returns. I still have an open ticket with Ineos as no progress has been made to fix this issue over the last year. I am still waiting for a reply. It has also been suggested that the SOC and charging monitor is in error (and/or the components that feed into this monitor) rather than the "real" SOC of the battery and "real" charge rate.
As Skydance suggests, a recalibration of the trailer module that feeds into the SOC monitor might help, as it did with him. Please let us all know.

Thanks I also had the recharge and reset dance with my dealer to same effect.
I plan to sue them if they don't perform, so I will give feedback.

 

[CHM]

Hi carl,
that´s not right. The Batteries are only connected when:
- the generator is charging
- the smartpass detects a weak starterbattery and connects the secondary battery for a few seconds to assist
- the starterbattery is low in voltage, then the secondary trickles
The SOC shown is only from starter battery, i tested that.

Hi have heard this before and thanks. Just shows how this architecture is appalling. If I camp and connect a couple of spots and run the fridge that implies I am running down the primary battery as the trickle charge can't keep up. Really sounds not fit for purpose to me. All those fancy pre-wired switch points are then useless while stationary.

 

[CHM]

Arguably best to ignore the SOC gauge.

12.8v is fully charged, 12.05v is 50%. I am over simplifying.

It looks like the BMW derived charging system reduces to a trickle charge when it thinks the battery is about 80% charged, around 12.6v.

Yes, so that means we get to use 30% of our battery. Not good enough for me.

 

[landmannnn]

That is mostly my experience, but currently stuck at 63%. Unusable.

What voltage?

 

[CHM]

What voltage?

The SOC.

 

[landmannnn]

The SOC.

I meant the voltage. It is on the SOC screen.

 

[globalgregors]

My Request:
Please can you guys share and knowledge and advise on this issue.

Regards, Carl

This definitely appears to be a fault.

I’d suggest swapping the primary and auxiliary batteries around.

This should indicate whether the battery or charging system/BMS is the issue.

 

[bemax]

Hi carl,
that´s not right. The Batteries are only connected when:
- the generator is charging
- the smartpass detects a weak starterbattery and connects the secondary battery for a few seconds to assist
- the starterbattery is low in voltage, then the secondary trickles
The SOC shown is only from starter battery, i tested that.

Are you sure about that? I installed a cheap battery monitoring with Bluetooth. And the graph on my phone shows mostly parallel loading and unloading data for both batteries.

 

[Quartermaster]

That is interesting. I also installed two monitors to understand, what's going on. And i have different graphs. The description of the ctek smartpass says the same. So, for my car, i am pretty sure.