Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

[John Dean]

Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

I was one of the first to order the Grenadier several years ago, as I was so pleased by the announcement of its release. I admired the concept and the way Sir James Ratcliffe went against the grain.

I was fully aware that, as a new company with a new car, there would be issues, and indeed, I encountered problems when placing my order, and my vehicle still lacks a number of optional components.

That is tolerable, but the fact that they refuse to communicate with me or my dealer with either no response or meaningless gibberish is intolerable.

I am aware that in the grand scheme of things this is unimportant, but this is an excellent illustration.

A couple of days ago I received an email informing me that I could claim my Belstaff Trialmaster jacket. I was ecstatic, so I went to order my jacket. However, when I went to the website to claim my jacket, I was unable to do so because the information provided did not work. I reread the email and used the email address they said to use if you have any issues, but the email bounced. I took photos of the scene and a copy of the non-delivery response and wrote a lengthy explanation to Ineos Customer Service. After several emails back and forth, I received the following response: " For now, we are having some problems with our website, We do apologize for any inconvenience caused, and we are grateful for your patience.”. I told them I already knew it was defective.

The next day it rained, and the side of the vehicle facing the prevailing wind and rain was the passenger side. I opened the passenger door and it was full of water contained in by the door seals. I believe the rain got in because the window seal failed to do its job, so I emailed and rang my dealer, and the response was deafening silence. I just felt he was embarrassed and could not add anything, so he said nothing. As you can imagine, I have had numerous conversations with them, but I do not hold them accountable because I believe they are as frustrated as I am by the dearth of a meaningful response.

I love the vehicle and the design concept; it drives well for what it is designed to do, it has character and is purposeful.

My dilemma is that the lack of meaningful engagement from Ineo Grenadier will destroy my enjoyment of the vehicle and make it extremely difficult if not impossible to formulate a resolution strategy.

The question is whether to return the vehicle for a full refund and search for another vehicle, or to keep the vehicle.

 

[Tazzieman]

It's your decision, not ours.

 

[DCPU]

The question is whether to return the vehicle for a full refund and search for another vehicle, or to keep the vehicle.

The key to me is "search for another vehicle" - there's nothing to stop you doing that now and then deciding if there's something that meets your requirements that matches. Of course, the delivery and honeymoon/warranty period could still go off the rails with a new different vehicle.

For me, there is no alternative, other than the old Defender I already have.

 

[AnD3rew]

Nothing in that would come close to crossing the threshold for me to consider wanting to give up on it. I don’t know about law in your part of the world but also wouldn’t cross any threshold here for legally obliging them to give you a refund. But as @Tazzieman says, no one here can speak for you or make that decision for you.

 

[grenadierboy]

Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

I was one of the first to order the Grenadier several years ago, as I was so pleased by the announcement of its release. I admired the concept and the way Sir James Ratcliffe went against the grain.

I was fully aware that, as a new company with a new car, there would be issues, and indeed, I encountered problems when placing my order, and my vehicle still lacks a number of optional components.

That is tolerable, but the fact that they refuse to communicate with me or my dealer with either no response or meaningless gibberish is intolerable.

I am aware that in the grand scheme of things this is unimportant, but this is an excellent illustration.

A couple of days ago I received an email informing me that I could claim my Belstaff Trialmaster jacket. I was ecstatic, so I went to order my jacket. However, when I went to the website to claim my jacket, I was unable to do so because the information provided did not work. I reread the email and used the email address they said to use if you have any issues, but the email bounced. I took photos of the scene and a copy of the non-delivery response and wrote a lengthy explanation to Ineos Customer Service. After several emails back and forth, I received the following response: " For now, we are having some problems with our website, We do apologize for any inconvenience caused, and we are grateful for your patience.”. I told them I already knew it was defective.

The next day it rained, and the side of the vehicle facing the prevailing wind and rain was the passenger side. I opened the passenger door and it was full of water contained in by the door seals. I believe the rain got in because the window seal failed to do its job, so I emailed and rang my dealer, and the response was deafening silence. I just felt he was embarrassed and could not add anything, so he said nothing. As you can imagine, I have had numerous conversations with them, but I do not hold them accountable because I believe they are as frustrated as I am by the dearth of a meaningful response.

I love the vehicle and the design concept; it drives well for what it is designed to do, it has character and is purposeful.

My dilemma is that the lack of meaningful engagement from Ineo Grenadier will destroy my enjoyment of the vehicle and make it extremely difficult if not impossible to formulate a resolution strategy.

The question is whether to return the vehicle for a full refund and search for another vehicle, or to keep the vehicle.

John.

On the information you have laid out I would not be crossing the rubicon.

The jacket - I view that as pretty insignificant issue , although it does shine a light on issues around their customer service levels which we all know have taken a back seat to getting cars off the line.

The window seal failure is clearly more serious and you need to get INEOS to agree the issue and a time frame for repair.

 

[John Dean]

The key to me is "search for another vehicle" - there's nothing to stop you doing that now and then deciding if there's something that meets your requirements that matches. Of course, the delivery and honeymoon/warranty period could still go off the rails with a new different vehicle.

For me, there is no alternative, other than the old Defender I already

Nothing in that would come close to crossing the threshold for me to consider wanting to give up on it. I don’t know about law in your part of the world but also wouldn’t cross any threshold here for legally obliging them to give you a refund. But as @Tazzieman says, no one here can speak for you or make that decision for you.

This was this week's issue, not the entire list of issues, which is exhaustive. Legally, we all have this right in the UK. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 gives you the right to ask for a full refund in the first 30 days after buying any product that proves to be faulty, including a new or used car.

 

[Shopkeep]

Nothing in that would come close to crossing the threshold for me to consider wanting to give up on it. I don’t know about law in your part of the world but also wouldn’t cross any threshold here for legally obliging them to give you a refund. But as @Tazzieman says, no one here can speak for you or make that decision for you.

In Aus if they deliver vehicles with faults that are unable to be fixed within a reasonable amount of time then the threshold is crossed. Most of the issues being raised are not being fixed, they are still “working on it”. Further to this if the are delivering vehicles with multiple engine / transmission / brake warning lights coming up then they are unroadworthy and not fit for purpose, again crossing that threshold.

Not saying I would be returning the vehicle, but be aware of your rights and don’t get stuck with a faulty product if you don’t want it.

 

[AnD3rew]

In Aus if they deliver vehicles with faults that are unable to be fixed within a reasonable amount of time then the threshold is crossed. Most of the issues being raised are not being fixed, they are still “working on it”. Further to this if the are delivering vehicles with multiple engine / transmission / brake warning lights coming up then they are unroadworthy and not fit for purpose, again crossing that threshold.

Not saying I would be returning the vehicle, but be aware of your rights and don’t get stuck with a faulty product if you don’t want it.

Sure, but in the original post only a jacket ordering issue and an external seal were mentioned.

 

[MarkH]

Return it then order again next year.

 

[DaBull]

Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

I was one of the first to order the Grenadier several years ago, as I was so pleased by the announcement of its release. I admired the concept and the way Sir James Ratcliffe went against the grain.

I was fully aware that, as a new company with a new car, there would be issues, and indeed, I encountered problems when placing my order, and my vehicle still lacks a number of optional components.

That is tolerable, but the fact that they refuse to communicate with me or my dealer with either no response or meaningless gibberish is intolerable.

I am aware that in the grand scheme of things this is unimportant, but this is an excellent illustration.

A couple of days ago I received an email informing me that I could claim my Belstaff Trialmaster jacket. I was ecstatic, so I went to order my jacket. However, when I went to the website to claim my jacket, I was unable to do so because the information provided did not work. I reread the email and used the email address they said to use if you have any issues, but the email bounced. I took photos of the scene and a copy of the non-delivery response and wrote a lengthy explanation to Ineos Customer Service. After several emails back and forth, I received the following response: " For now, we are having some problems with our website, We do apologize for any inconvenience caused, and we are grateful for your patience.”. I told them I already knew it was defective.

The next day it rained, and the side of the vehicle facing the prevailing wind and rain was the passenger side. I opened the passenger door and it was full of water contained in by the door seals. I believe the rain got in because the window seal failed to do its job, so I emailed and rang my dealer, and the response was deafening silence. I just felt he was embarrassed and could not add anything, so he said nothing. As you can imagine, I have had numerous conversations with them, but I do not hold them accountable because I believe they are as frustrated as I am by the dearth of a meaningful response.

I love the vehicle and the design concept; it drives well for what it is designed to do, it has character and is purposeful.

My dilemma is that the lack of meaningful engagement from Ineo Grenadier will destroy my enjoyment of the vehicle and make it extremely difficult if not impossible to formulate a resolution strategy.

The question is whether to return the vehicle for a full refund and search for another vehicle, or to keep the vehicle.

When you get your jacket, use the wax from the jacket to seal the seal. DaBull

 

[Trialmaster]

A couple of days ago I received an email informing me that I could claim my Belstaff Trialmaster jacket. I was ecstatic, so I went to order my jacket. However, when I went to the website to claim my jacket, I was unable to do so because the information provided did not work. I reread the email and used the email address they said to use if you have any issues, but the email bounced. I took photos of the scene and a copy of the non-delivery response and wrote a lengthy explanation to Ineos Customer Service. After several emails back and forth, I received the following response: " For now, we are having some problems with our website, We do apologize for any inconvenience caused, and we are grateful for your patience.”. I told them I already knew it was defective.

I received the email around the same time, I also sent an email without response. 24 hours later - the order process worked (which was last night).

Regarding refusing the vehicle - your call, and I sympathise if the faults cannot even be discussed and rectified with the agent.

 

[CountyV8]

I'm keeping mine and the jacket you need to go further up the tree than customer services as they are just a call centre.

 

[Tomdoc]

Not even got mine yet, but unless it blows up on my drive, I am happy to "enjoy" the journey. Why? Because I have owned multiple Land Rover Defenders for 40 years and it's always an exciting partnership - one I hope to enter with my IG.

 

[evomind]

If you can get a full refund, go for it.
Next year when perhaps they have fixed some of the issues from the vehicles as a whole, then buy another one if you want.

 

[ADVAW8S]

In my opinion, get out. Why, well you are asking a forum if anyone else is looking to get rid of their IG. Your decision has been made and you are looking for confirmation for said decision. I'm not saying that IG is not right for you, but maybe the IG is not right for you right now.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

You didn't list the "extensive" other problems, leaving us to offer opinions regarding returning a vehicle solely because, 1) you haven't yet received your special commemorative jacket, and 2) you have a leak in one door seal. Any Land Rover owners here have probably fallen out of their chairs laughing.

 

[Jeremy996]

I have had my Grenadier since the 22/04/2023. I have all of the usual transient error messages and a driver's door that collects water between the inner and outer seals, dropping it when the door is next opened. It has all been logged with the dealer, both verbally and in writing and I am awaiting fixes.

I don't see it as a rejection matter; I have had worse with a Vauxhall Nova, Volkswagen Polo and Volkswagen Beetle Cabriolet. If it comes to going postal, the mark is already in the ground, (the verbal and written issue logs), so I can be patient. It starts and stops and 99% performs as it should.

 

[arakeghedzig]

Definitely is the case with any car, more so with newer models.
We've been lucky enough to own a '20 Defender 110 that would not start after being parked with less than 4000 miles. The car couldn't even be jump started. After being towed to the dealer, they kept it for a week & claimed they "fixed it". When we went to go pickup the car, it wouldn't start! They kept it for another week and said the issue was a "bent pin" somewhere. We drove it home and the following day when my wife tried to drive it, same issue! Wouldn't Start. So we towed it to another LR dealer to have a go at it, after keeping it for 2 weeks they said it was the TCM. I picked up the car, drove it across the street to fill up gas - AND IT WOULDNT START AGAIN! Had it towed back to the dealer, and after a month they replaced the replacement TCM module which was also faulty! Just our luck. But no issues since other than a sunroof that wouldn't open & screens that would black out while driving.

We have something in California called a lemon law where if you have the same issue 3 times or it's in repairs for over 30 days, it's considered a lemon. So we hired an attorney to encourage JLR to give us a new one. JLR offered to buy the car back but we refused to sell it because we loved the car for all its faults and it had appreciated due to the pandemic & supply shortage affecting deliveries to the US. They finally settled on compensation to reimburse us for the time we were unable to drive the vehicle.

In your case - KEEP YOUR IG. It won't be as bad as a LR. I used to work at Tesla Motors and the amount of issues new car designs have is staggering given the insane number of parts vendors we dealt with.

 

[Skydance]

If you can get a full refund, go for it.
Next year when perhaps they have fixed some of the issues from the vehicles as a whole, then buy another one if you

But next year all the prices would be at least 10% more than he actually paid.

 

[arakeghedzig]

Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

This guys is - Ineos grenadier review - why we have sold our ineos grenadier