Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

[trobex]

The jacket issue was just to highlight how they operate. i have outstanding 10+ items that have not been delivered, and they just keep telling me it will be with me in a couple months, Now they are 7 months late They can't be specific about any item i have ordered. I have a list of faults, from steering, to the winch to various software issues, water ingress, etc. My issue is not the faults or the outstanding optional extras, it's just that they are incapable of having meaningful discussions about the plan to resolve the issues or to give me a heads up on my outstanding items.

Yeah, the communication is the worst part - not having answers on a 100K+ spend would cause angst.

 

[CJV]

Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

I was one of the first to order the Grenadier several years ago, as I was so pleased by the announcement of its release. I admired the concept and the way Sir James Ratcliffe went against the grain.

I was fully aware that, as a new company with a new car, there would be issues, and indeed, I encountered problems when placing my order, and my vehicle still lacks a number of optional components.

That is tolerable, but the fact that they refuse to communicate with me or my dealer with either no response or meaningless gibberish is intolerable.

I am aware that in the grand scheme of things this is unimportant, but this is an excellent illustration.

A couple of days ago I received an email informing me that I could claim my Belstaff Trialmaster jacket. I was ecstatic, so I went to order my jacket. However, when I went to the website to claim my jacket, I was unable to do so because the information provided did not work. I reread the email and used the email address they said to use if you have any issues, but the email bounced. I took photos of the scene and a copy of the non-delivery response and wrote a lengthy explanation to Ineos Customer Service. After several emails back and forth, I received the following response: " For now, we are having some problems with our website, We do apologize for any inconvenience caused, and we are grateful for your patience.”. I told them I already knew it was defective.

The next day it rained, and the side of the vehicle facing the prevailing wind and rain was the passenger side. I opened the passenger door and it was full of water contained in by the door seals. I believe the rain got in because the window seal failed to do its job, so I emailed and rang my dealer, and the response was deafening silence. I just felt he was embarrassed and could not add anything, so he said nothing. As you can imagine, I have had numerous conversations with them, but I do not hold them accountable because I believe they are as frustrated as I am by the dearth of a meaningful response.

I love the vehicle and the design concept; it drives well for what it is designed to do, it has character and is purposeful.

My dilemma is that the lack of meaningful engagement from Ineo Grenadier will destroy my enjoyment of the vehicle and make it extremely difficult if not impossible to formulate a resolution strategy.

The question is whether to return the vehicle for a full refund and search for another vehicle, or to keep the vehicle.

Please keep us up to date on your customer service experinece and let us know if you decide to return the vehicle.

 

[DCPU]

My issue is not the faults or the outstanding optional extras, it's just that they are incapable of having meaningful discussions about the plan to resolve the issues or to give me a heads up on my outstanding items.

I appreciate what you are saying with regard to the core issue; but what was your particular issue with the winch?

 

[John Dean]

I appreciate what you are saying with regard to the core issue; but what was your particular issue with the winch?

I been told not to use it as they don't have a manual for it.

 

[John Dean]

Please keep us up to date on your customer service experinece and let us know if you decide to return the vehicle.

i have made many calls (many to customer service; they are very polite but are unable to tell me anything other than a generic statement) and emails. Including Ineos Grenadier (including Sir Jim and Lynn Calder CEO Automotive) over the last few months, i now have a call later today with the Regional Business Manager. To be clear, i absolutely love my Grenadier, which is a great fit for me. I just need to be able to have a meaningful dialogue with Ineos Grenadier and the dealer about the issues with my vehicle.

 

[CountyV8]

I been told not to use it as they don't have a manual for it.

There is an online manual and my dealer even printed it out for me.

 

[MARKG]

Return it then order again next year.

if re order , price has increased approx £13000 !! maybe keep it and get issues fixed

 

[John Dean]

There is an online manual and my dealer even printed it out for me.

could please let have the online address please

 

[CountyV8]

could please let have the online address please

I have the PDF but too big to post on here.

 

[AnD3rew]

could please let have the online address please

https://www.theineosforum.com/attachments/winch-manual-new-16-06-23-small-pdf.7816770/

 

[John Dean]

https://www.theineosforum.com/attachments/winch-manual-new-16-06-23-small-pdf.7816770/

many thanks!

 

[lightning]

Having read this entire thread, l can understand the frustration with the vehicle.

I read similar on the Defender forum when it first appeared in 2020. Cars with random faults and dealers unable to fix. Parts on back order for months.

Things are better now with the Defender although it's not perfect.

I would say, if you are truly unhappy with your Grenadier then if possible sell it privately rather than asking for a refund.

My Grenadier configuration has increased in price from £55,000 to £69,000, meaning l've had to pull out.
lf you paid the lower price you could probably sell it on at a profit.

lneos are probably inundated as Land Rover were (and some dealers still are) hopefully it will improve.

l don't hear of any Grenadiers actually breaking down so if you love the vehicle it might be the case to keep driving it until lneos catch up and start sorting the issues.

 

[AnD3rew]

Having read this entire thread, l can understand the frustration with the vehicle.

I read similar on the Defender forum. Cars with random faults and dealers unable to fix. Parts on back order for months.

Things are better now with the Defender although it's not perfect.

I would say, if you are truly unhappy with your Grenadier then if possible sell it privately rather than asking for a refund.

My Grenadier configuration has increased in price from £55,000 to £69,000, meaning l've had to pull out.
lf you paid the lower price you could probably sell it on at a profit.

lneos are probably inundated as Land Rover were (and some dealers still are) hopefully it will improve.

l don't hear of any Grenadiers actually breaking down so if you love the vehicle it might be the case to keep driving it until lneos catch up and start sorting the issues.

I don’t say this to disparage anyone, people and their motivations and tolerance levels are just different and that’s ok. I really think some people who have ordered Grenadiers were not prepared for what might be and predictably has been the implications of being an early adopter of a brand new model from a brand new car company. There has been only 1 serious failure that I am aware of that was a show stopper and that is Logsplitters power steering. Too early to fully know yet, but likely/hopefully an isolated QC issue from a 3rd party supplier. The fact that there have been some niggly issues with seals and software and minor components are entirely predictable and INEOS does appear to he taking note of them and addressing them, is it slow? Yes, does their communication leave room for improvement? Yes, are their internal systems struggling? Yes. I haven’t received mine yet so take this with a grain of salt, but I can live with some teething issues with software and some minor quality issues as long as INEOS is working though them and as long as my dealer is working with me to address them as the solutions become available. But I am an enthusiast of cars in general and more unique cars in particular and have lived through many JLR experiences and issues with other brands as well. I am more tolerant than many and went into it with my eyes open. I get that many aren’t that tolerant and understand why, but they probably didn’t really think it through from the beginning with their eyes open and would probably have been better off ordering an established model from an established company. Again I don’t say that as a criticism just an observation, their expectations fit with mainstream car purchase and are not unreasonable in that context, except this is different and always was going to be.

My biggest criticism of INEOS is their communication both in general and directly with individuals who have more significant or multiple problems like Jean and Logsplitter, they would do well to have a couple of senior internal customer relations/technical liason people whose main job is to support customers with these kinds of issues directly rather than leaving it with agents and obscure internal escalation mechanisms and generic customer sevice call centres. Doing this would significantly improve the perception of the organization. Having said that I understand from conversations with some insiders and some customers that they do take these issues seriously and have done some significant work to support people doing bigger trips who have experienced problems etc, but they just don’t seem to do it transparently, which is a pity because it would serve to increase confidence.

 

[40man]

I don’t say this to disparage anyone, people and their motivations and tolerance levels are just different and that’s ok. I really think some people who have ordered Grenadiers were not prepared for what might be and predictably has been the implications of being an early adopter of a brand new model from a brand new car company. There has been only 1 serious failure that I am aware of that was a show stopper and that is Logsplitters power steering. Too early to fully know yet, but likely/hopefully an isolated QC issue from a 3rd party supplier. The fact that there have been some niggly issues with seals and software and minor components are entirely predictable and INEOS does appear to he taking note of them and addressing them, is it slow? Yes, does their communication leave room for improvement? Yes, are their internal systems struggling? Yes. I haven’t received mine yet so take this with a grain of salt, but I can live with some teething issues with software and some minor quality issues as long as INEOS is working though them and as long as my dealer is working with me to address them as the solutions become available. But I am an enthusiast of cars in general and more unique cars in particular and have lived through many JLR experiences and issues with other brands as well. I am more tolerant than many and went into it with my eyes open. I get that many aren’t that tolerant and understand why, but they probably didn’t really think it through from the beginning with their eyes open and would probably have been better off ordering an established model from an established company. Again I don’t say that as a criticism just an observation, their expectations fit with mainstream car purchase and are not unreasonable in that context, except this is different and always was going to be.

My biggest criticism of INEOS is their communication both in general and directly with individuals who have more significant or multiple problems like Jean and Logsplitter, they would do well to have a couple of senior internal customer relations/technical liason people whose main job is to support customers with these kinds of issues directly rather than leaving it with agents and obscure internal escalation mechanisms and generic customer sevice call centres. Doing this would significantly improve the perception of the organization. Having said that I understand from conversations with some insiders and some customers that they do take these issues seriously and have done some significant work to support people doing bigger trips who have experienced problems etc, but they just don’t seem to do it transparently, which is a pity because it would serve to increase confidence.

If I back out it will be a culmination of many small issues and my dealer being 4 hours away. When I made a reservation, Ineos advertised a robust network of Bosch dealers. 4 hours for repair is a bit of a pain.

 

[AnD3rew]

If I back out it will be a culmination of many small issues and my dealer being 4 hours away. When I made a reservation, Ineos advertised a robust network of Bosch dealers. 4 hours for repair is a bit of a pain.

Hard to argue with that. Although in theory anyway, any licensed mechanic should be able to access information and order parts. Will be interesting to see if that is indeed the case.

 

[40man]

Hard to argue with that. Although in theory anyway, any licensed mechanic should be able to access information and order parts. Will be interesting to see if that is indeed the case.

I was told directly only an authorized dealer can perform warranty work. And the software glitches will need to be done in house. I dread having to take multiple 8 hr round trips to potentially fix issues.

Honestly, I was excited for a mechanical rig with very little software, and that is not the case unfortunately (even of less than most if not all other current vehicles).

I'd love to see the software issues soon with enough time to see that the software update appears to be a good long-term solution.

If not, I may back away for a couple of years.

 

[bakepl]

I don’t say this to disparage anyone, people and their motivations and tolerance levels are just different and that’s ok. I really think some people who have ordered Grenadiers were not prepared for what might be and predictably has been the implications of being an early adopter of a brand new model from a brand new car company. There has been only 1 serious failure that I am aware of that was a show stopper and that is Logsplitters power steering. Too early to fully know yet, but likely/hopefully an isolated QC issue from a 3rd party supplier. The fact that there have been some niggly issues with seals and software and minor components are entirely predictable and INEOS does appear to he taking note of them and addressing them, is it slow? Yes, does their communication leave room for improvement? Yes, are their internal systems struggling? Yes. I haven’t received mine yet so take this with a grain of salt, but I can live with some teething issues with software and some minor quality issues as long as INEOS is working though them and as long as my dealer is working with me to address them as the solutions become available. But I am an enthusiast of cars in general and more unique cars in particular and have lived through many JLR experiences and issues with other brands as well. I am more tolerant than many and went into it with my eyes open. I get that many aren’t that tolerant and understand why, but they probably didn’t really think it through from the beginning with their eyes open and would probably have been better off ordering an established model from an established company. Again I don’t say that as a criticism just an observation, their expectations fit with mainstream car purchase and are not unreasonable in that context, except this is different and always was going to be.

My biggest criticism of INEOS is their communication both in general and directly with individuals who have more significant or multiple problems like Jean and Logsplitter, they would do well to have a couple of senior internal customer relations/technical liason people whose main job is to support customers with these kinds of issues directly rather than leaving it with agents and obscure internal escalation mechanisms and generic customer sevice call centres. Doing this would significantly improve the perception of the organization. Having said that I understand from conversations with some insiders and some customers that they do take these issues seriously and have done some significant work to support people doing bigger trips who have experienced problems etc, but they just don’t seem to do it transparently, which is a pity because it would serve to increase confidence.

100% spot on AnD3rew. I've been following this since the start and placed an order based on what I have read about Ineos and their suppliers (automotive), it's owner and promises made. My car is now on some ship doing circles south of Melbourne. I can wait no problem and am looking forward to receiving it. I did go into this with my eyes open, well, I thought I had invested substantial due diligence but in retrospect perhaps I did so via a clouded lens led by my heart. My heart or head said there's no way a fledgeling motor company with the promise of building a seriously capable, no nonsense, less electronics, go anywhere vehicle with repair manuals readily available etc etc would launch something not close to perfect (subjective I know) for fear of immediate damage to their reputation and subsequent sales. Now to discover vehicles OS have similar and untoward false bings and bongs and screen warnings is somewhat disappointing and I hope no reputational damage is done (and a solution is around the corner for customers). How wrong I was but even more so I can't believe they gave vehicles like this to Harry and Jeremy. For us in Australia it seems that IneosAu is on the front foot and being proactive in this area and this is indeed reassuring.

 

[grenadierboy]

I am thinking the same.

According to my agent, (from INEOS Australia) the main reason for the extra long pause on exporting to Australia, (and why there are now several hundred Grenadiers only a few kilometers off the Australian coast), was to ensure that the glitches, (OK - a few are more than glitches!), experienced by European owners since March were remedied on Australian, South African and NZ bound cars before loading on the RoRo's.

How many glitches remain - wait to see.

 

[gkhaldi]

I can understand the frustration from some in the thread. I myself on occasion have shouted to the IG when the oompth message displays. But…until now I haven’t experienced any mechanical issues. It feels solid and drives exactly the way I expected it to do.

I have accepted that it’ll take 6 to 12 months before all the gremlins are solved. It’s not ideal but on a vehicle with a quoted lifespan of “single owner vehicle” so over 30 years….I try to be patient knowing that it’ll get fixed eventually. I haven’t found any decent alternative in Europe at least. The LC150 is end of life, the LC300 we can’t get, the Patrol no longer exists here, the G-class (of which I had 2 before) has become a mall cruiser and the defender easts electronics and engines for breakfast (5 friends tried Africa with them…5 came back on the back of a truck, and I always had a particular love for LR)

So in essence…if you can muster the patience…ride it out. Good luck to all

 

[DaveB]

100% spot on AnD3rew. I've been following this since the start and placed an order based on what I have read about Ineos and their suppliers (automotive), it's owner and promises made. My car is now on some ship doing circles south of Melbourne. I can wait no problem and am looking forward to receiving it. I did go into this with my eyes open, well, I thought I had invested substantial due diligence but in retrospect perhaps I did so via a clouded lens led by my heart. My heart or head said there's no way a fledgeling motor company with the promise of building a seriously capable, no nonsense, less electronics, go anywhere vehicle with repair manuals readily available etc etc would launch something not close to perfect (subjective I know) for fear of immediate damage to their reputation and subsequent sales. Now to discover vehicles OS have similar and untoward false bings and bongs and screen warnings is somewhat disappointing and I hope no reputational damage is done (and a solution is around the corner for customers). How wrong I was but even more so I can't believe they gave vehicles like this to Harry and Jeremy. For us in Australia it seems that IneosAu is on the front foot and being proactive in this area and this is indeed reassuring.

I drove up to Bundaberg and back today, 104kms each way, all through rural bush and farmland.
Warning signs for kangaroos, emu's and horses on the sides of the road and plenty of dead bodies.
one looked like a large pig.
Tar all the way but pretty rough and lots of potholes.
Also about 20 cane train crossings.
Whole time I was thinking how much better it will be doing it in the Grenadier when she arrives.
Heading down to Maryborough tomorrow over more country roads.
Next week it's up to Gladstone Monday and back on Thursday
My current Mercedes is great to drive but taking a beating.
Grenadier below will suit the job a lot better I am sure.