Air Conditioning quits, requires engine re-start in high heat/humidity

[BenTN]

I have read about a few A/C problems on the forum including refrigerant leaks (resulting in air not blowing cold) and water dripping into footwell. My forum search skills may be lacking but I am not finding a thread about electrical issues related to the HVAC system. Please point me in that direction if this has been discussed already.

I am in a high-temp (95degF) high-humidity location on the U.S. southeast coast this week. The Grenadier has been perfect (towing like a champ) except for the A/C, which is kind of an issue when I am traveling with the wife and kids. The problem appeared after a long drive enroute here, when temps climbed well into the 90s

In high temps (and seemingly not in more moderate ~80degF temps) I intermittently observe the "Auto" HVAC setting drop out (indicator light turns off) and the A/C indicator turn off. Air keeps blowing but soon becomes obviously warmer. There are no screen display indications or warning lights to indicate any issues. Pressing HVAC buttons does not allow either Auto or A/C to come back on. After an engine off/on cycle (engine restart) of any duration, the buttons will allow me to re-engage the Auto or manual A/C, the indicator lights work again, and air blows cold again.

However the problem may repeat itself in 5 seconds, or 5 minutes, or 20 minutes. It's fairly random, but if I give the A/C a "break" for a while (maybe 20 mins) then it will run for longer before the failure repeats.

I MIGHT have figured out a way to limp along:
It seems that if I cycle the A/C off and on manually (off for just a few seconds) by pressing the A/C button every 5 mins or so, the problem does not occur at all. I have done this for a few drives and it seems to abate or eliminate the symptom, but I am on a family vacation and the agenda has not allowed methodical testing if this.

Has anyone experienced this issue, and if so what have you discovered about root cause?

Because it requires an engine restart, I am inclined to think this is a re-settable breaker tripping. Maybe the engine re-start cycle resets the breaker and the system operates again for a while. But this is pure speculation. I can't tell if the compressor is disengaging when the problem occurs, or possibly a blend door is closing or something. I think I can hear some subtle airflow change occur when the fault happens, which I don't think would occur if it was just the compressor stopping.

I haven't been able to troubleshoot properly yet and I probably won't for a few more days. Won't be anywhere that I can get IG dealer service any time soon.
Any help would be much appreciated.

UPDATE 8/18/2024:
I have discovered that if I follow the process below, the A/C will come back to life every time and work perfectly (for a while) again:

- Turn fan to OFF
- Press and hold A/C On button for a few seconds (nothing happens, as expected)
- Turn fan to ON (turn up to any speed)
- Press A/C On button

Air conditioning comes back on and blows cold!

 

[crashnburn]

Have you tried having it recharged?
This actually resolved my temperamental AC.

 

[Dok]

I have all the problems you mention... And when I park some water under the car.
I don't have this one (yet?) / haven't let the AC on long enough because it is blowing burning air

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

Same problem, I can drive it 15 times with no issue, blows super cold but then I will stop and run into the market and start up again and I get super hot air out the back vents and warm out the front. No amount of fiddling with the controls will return the cold air, I have to stop, turn off the engine for at least 10 minutes and cross my fingers it will blow cold again. Most times it will start working again but there have been a few long hot drives where nothing seemed to reset it until I let it sit for an hour or more. I don't see how it can be a refrigerant level issue as it blows ice cold most times. It seems to be an electrical demon. When I called the dealer they said they hadn't heard of any issues except the low refrigerant level or leak. I am hesitant to bring it in because they will test it and it will work fine and hand it back saying no problem found. Thats the problem with intermittent issues.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

I have all the problems you mention... And when I park some water under the car.
I don't have this one (yet?) / haven't let the AC on long enough because it is blowing burning air

Water under the car after running the AC is perfectly normal, its just condensation.

 

[MTNDOG]

Almost sounds like something freezes up, wonder if it is low freon in the system

 

[Zimm]

I would check the thermal expansion valve before I figured it an electrical glitch.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

I would check the thermal expansion valve before I figured it an electrical glitch.

The reason I think it might be electrical instead of just low freon is I will completely shut off the AC and fan controls so there is no air blowing through the vents, the system is completely off and it will all of a sudden start blowing strong hot air through the vents. The only way to stop it is to turn the fan dial to high and back to off again. Ten minutes later down the road it turns itself on again when all dials are set to off. I don't think its low on freon as when it does work it works great but when it doesn't work its like the truck has a mind of its own blowing hot when it should be cold and turning on by itself when all dials are set to off.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I have read about a few A/C problems on the forum including refrigerant leaks (resulting in air not blowing cold) and water dripping into footwell. My forum search skills may be lacking but I am not finding a thread about electrical issues related to the HVAC system. Please point me in that direction if this has been discussed already.

I am in a high-temp (95degF) high-humidity location on the U.S. southeast coast this week. The Grenadier has been perfect (towing like a champ) except for the A/C, which is kind of an issue when I am traveling with the wife and kids. The problem appeared after a long drive enroute here, when temps climbed well into the 90s

In high temps (and seemingly not in more moderate ~80degF temps) I intermittently observe the "Auto" HVAC setting drop out (indicator light turns off) and the A/C indicator turn off. Air keeps blowing but soon becomes obviously warmer. There are no screen display indications or warning lights to indicate any issues. Pressing HVAC buttons does not allow either Auto or A/C to come back on. After an engine off/on cycle (engine restart) of any duration, the buttons will allow me to re-engage the Auto or manual A/C, the indicator lights work again, and air blows cold again.

However the problem may repeat itself in 5 seconds, or 5 minutes, or 20 minutes. It's fairly random, but if I give the A/C a "break" for a while (maybe 20 mins) then it will run for longer before the failure repeats.

I MIGHT have figured out a way to limp along:
It seems that if I cycle the A/C off and on manually (off for just a few seconds) by pressing the A/C button every 5 mins or so, the problem does not occur at all. I have done this for a few drives and it seems to abate or eliminate the symptom, but I am on a family vacation and the agenda has not allowed methodical testing if this.

Has anyone experienced this issue, and if so what have you discovered about root cause?

Because it requires an engine restart, I am inclined to think this is a re-settable breaker tripping. Maybe the engine re-start cycle resets the breaker and the system operates again for a while. But this is pure speculation. I can't tell if the compressor is disengaging when the problem occurs, or possibly a blend door is closing or something. I think I can hear some subtle airflow change occur when the fault happens, which I don't think would occur if it was just the compressor stopping.

I haven't been able to troubleshoot properly yet and I probably won't for a few more days. Won't be anywhere that I can get IG dealer service any time soon.

Any help would be much appreciated.

I've had this happen once to me, and it's not reappeared since. My gut is that it's electrical, but if you're low on refrigerant then this could cause a similar thing as it would cause the compressor circuit to trip on low pressure and tag out the auto function. Next time it happens have a Quick Look under the bonnet and see if there's any frosting on the pipes to the condenser (that odd rectangular thing by the right hand side fender when you're looking at the engine with the bonnet up, in the engine bay wit the 4 pipes going it) . That can be a tell tale.

 

[Skydance]

Same problem, I can drive it 15 times with no issue, blows super cold but then I will stop and run into the market and start up again and I get super hot air out the back vents and warm out the front. No amount of fiddling with the controls will return the cold air, I have to stop, turn off the engine for at least 10 minutes and cross my fingers it will blow cold again. Most times it will start working again but there have been a few long hot drives where nothing seemed to reset it until I let it sit for an hour or more. I don't see how it can be a refrigerant level issue as it blows ice cold most times. It seems to be an electrical demon. When I called the dealer they said they hadn't heard of any issues except the low refrigerant level or leak. I am hesitant to bring it in because they will test it and it will work fine and hand it back saying no problem found. Thats the problem with intermittent issues.

So basically what my understanding is and it affect most Grenadiers. Some may not even notice it. Is that the actuators/flaps which direct the air can be stuck in between two modes. Ie face and feet (mine is mostly stuck on this mode blowing cold air to face and warm air to feet) or some have reported front/rear vents.

I don’t know why it causes this but when it’s stuck on, hot air comes out of one vent and cold air out of the other. I spoke to a Ineos tech and currently they have no fix but working on one. It happens especially on Auto. Fingers crossed it just is a software programming issue on the module which controls actuators.

I’ve been testing it lately in the hot weather. I’ve had the latest TBB for aircon drips in the passenger footwell (micro filter change) and unfortunately it still happens. My theory and I’ve tested this is that if you have it on manual fan speed 1 or 2 with setting windscreen/feet blower (where the same temperature air directing to the both channels and not stuck). It doesn’t produce any drips because there is no hot/cold air producing condensation (hence the drips) from the outside of the aircon pipes.

If anyone has aircon drips in the footwell. Please can you try fan speed 1/2 and on a mode which isn’t stuck on (same temperature coming out of both vents). Then see if it produces any drips after your journey.

I want to test and share my findings.

 

[Catpaw4x4]

The reason I think it might be electrical instead of just low freon is I will completely shut off the AC and fan controls so there is no air blowing through the vents, the system is completely off and it will all of a sudden start blowing strong hot air through the vents. The only way to stop it is to turn the fan dial to high and back to off again. Ten minutes later down the road it turns itself on again when all dials are set to off. I don't think its low on freon as when it does work it works great but when it doesn't work its like the truck has a mind of its own blowing hot when it should be cold and turning on by itself when all dials are set to off.

I have experienced a similar "Possessed" event

 

[ecohen2]

Just out of curiosity can you tell if the system is icing up?

If I recall that would make the system turn off until it melts..

 

[Roach]

I had this happen on a Different car. Problem was that the car was overheating and turned off the AC. Drive me nuts trying to figure it out. For that car the louvers had broken in the closed position.

Might be interesting to see what your engine temp is when it fails. It wasn’t pegged but it was certainly above the norm, low end of the red range.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

Just out of curiosity can you tell if the system is icing up?

If I recall that would make the system turn off until it melts..

It happened again today after driving 5 minutes to the market. I spent 40 minutes in the store got back in and it started blowing warm air in the front and super hot in the rear. I would think a 5 minute drive would not be enough to ice it up. BTW it has happened every single time I drive to that market which makes me think I am doing something repetitive that causes it since it always happens then.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

I had this happen on a Different car. Problem was that the car was overheating and turned off the AC. Drive me nuts trying to figure it out. For that car the louvers had broken in the closed position.

Might be interesting to see what your engine temp is when it fails. It wasn’t pegged but it was certainly above the norm, low end of the red range.

Definitely not an overheating issue. It has happened in all temps and on short trips and long all at random times. I just came back from a 400 mile trip in the eastern California mountains with air temps in the 105-110 range and my vehicle blew icy cold air the entire trip. I went for a 5 minute drive to the market today with temps in the 80's and the whole system went to crap. Two hours later I went for another drive and the system works perfect. No rhyme or reason to when it fails though it does seem to consistently fail on my drive home from the market for some reason.

 

[Dok]

Water under the car after running the AC is perfectly normal, its just condensation.

You are right... But I was told that "too much water can be a sign of something wrong". Can't tell if what I have is normal or not... Just telling everything I see so we can have as much info as possible to find a solution...

 

[[ Adam ]]

BTW it has happened every single time I drive to that market which makes me think I am doing something repetitive that causes it since it always happens then.

Send your wife to get the groceries, duh.

 

[GrenADV]

The “auto” feature on the grenadier is garbage. I stopped using it after about a month of ownership, and since then, I’ve not had any issues. It took me a while to get over it…almost like an OCD thing. For example on my previous vehicle (Jeep GC) I would get annoyed if a passenger took it off of “auto.” Now, I’m all free spirit and stuff (peace and love, man).

 

[anand]

The “auto” feature on the grenadier is garbage. I stopped using it after about a month of ownership, and since then, I’ve not had any issues. It took me a while to get over it…almost like an OCD thing. For example on my previous vehicle (Jeep GC) I would get annoyed if a passenger took it off of “auto.” Now, I’m all free spirit and stuff (peace and love, man).

Interesting, on mine it is the exact opposite, Auto is far more reliable in terms of proper regulation and fan speed than trying to do it myself...

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

Interesting, on mine it is the exact opposite, Auto is far more reliable in terms of proper regulation and fan speed than trying to do it myself...

If I hit the Auto feature on mine the fan goes immediately to full speed and the temp goes to full heat in the rear vents and automatically turns the AC off. If I get in and the AC is working I’m terrified to touch anything for fear I’ll be fried alive in my truck lol.