ADAS experiment

[abakker]

So, I have noticed a few things about the ADAS chime and I'm hoping for some people to help me do an experiment.

1. We all know that sometimes at vehicle start, the ADAS has retained its "off" setting, but for the most part this seems arbitrary.
2. some members have indicated that theirs stays off for many consecutive starts, while others it is highly intermittent.
3. I have noticed that sometimes when I start in some locations (near boulder CO) I'll get the "no" speed limit sign, sometimes I'll get 55mph, and others 15mph and that after driving for a while it "catches up" to the right speed limit, even without seeing a road sign.
4. There are some specific roads (southbound N119th street in longmont, for one) where ADAS is convinced the speed limit is 20mph, and even when you pass a 45mph sign, it defaults back to 20mph after abut 15 seconds. (for much of rural boulder county, ADAS says 20mph, when the signage indicates otherwise)

So, here's are my questions:

1. For anyone here who parks in an underground parking structure with (presumably) no satellite comms/radio - what is your experience on ADAS reset?
2. Has anyone *never* had their ADAS clicker stick during a power cycle?
3. Do any people who live in really mountainous areas see different ADAS behavior?

I'm curious because I'm wondering to what extent satellite comms affect the reset of the ADAS switch vs onboard computer glitches.

---
a broader observation are that the Ineos software model tends to be a bit vague with anything related to sensor inputs - e.g. HVAC, Lockers, Auto headlights, all take a long time for the infotainment system to confirm what has changed in the sensor input. I'm wondering if inability to see an ADAS satellite (or is it cell signal?) means that sometimes the ADAS doesn't reset?
__

 

[anand]

a broader observation are that the Ineos software model tends to be a bit vague with anything related to sensor inputs - e.g. HVAC, Lockers, Auto headlights, all take a long time for the infotainment system to confirm what has changed in the sensor input. I'm wondering if inability to see an ADAS satellite (or is it cell signal?) means that sometimes the ADAS doesn't reset?

There is no ADAS satellite per se... The ADAS speed data is stored locally in a module and the GPS signal is referenced to figure out where the vehicle is and what the speed is (unless the camera sees a sign and is able to override the locally stored data).

 

[abakker]

So, there is a local, on-board hard drive that has a lookup table for every coordinate of every road to match against the present gps coordinates received from the satellites?

That sounds like a pretty crazy way to build that system. The database must be constantly wrong, and with no OTA capability would need to cover basically the entire region where the car was sold.

If someone drives a US spec grenadier to Canada, what happens?

 

[anand]

So, there is a local, on-board hard drive that has a lookup table for every coordinate of every road to match against the present gps coordinates received from the satellites?

That sounds like a pretty crazy way to build that system. The database must be constantly wrong, and with no OTA capability would need to cover basically the entire region where the car was sold.

If someone drives a US spec grenadier to Canada, what happens?

This is how all modern ADAS systems work (sure some may have OTA capability)... The primary device to detect speed limits is the camera, the on board database is the backup if for some reason it can't read the signs

 

[HereinDaRockies]

There is no way… but it wouldn’t surprise me if Ineos thought a factory flashed image of “world” street map was a reasonable way to make Adas robust

OP have you observed how the speed limit Adas works at night? Seeing how after sun sets, ~65% of the time, we get warning in the telltale that speed reading doesn’t work…

 

[anand]

Incase anyone (EU or NA) want to update their ISA files, here's the website: https://grenadier.mapupdate.info/

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Incase anyone (EU or NA) want to update their ISA files, here's the website: https://grenadier.mapupdate.info/

How does one make use of that download?

 

[anand]

How does one make use of that download?

I haven't done it, but it gives instructions on the download page. Short story: download, extract folder to a FAT32 formatted USB drive. According to this post it must be a USB drive that is formatted from a Windows PC.

 

[Dokatd]

I haven't done it, but it gives instructions on the download page. Short story: download, extract folder to a FAT32 formatted USB drive. According to this post it must be a USB drive that is formatted from a Windows PC.

Surely it has a table? We need to find someone that can hack in and modify the table to say 85mph for everything.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Damn that grenadier.mapupdate.info domain was registered on Created: 2017-08-02!?

 

[anand]

Damn that grenadier.mapupdate.info domain was registered on Created: 2017-08-02!?

That would make sense, the website is run by the company that makes the Infotainment screen/software, so I'm sure that was chosen early on

Surely it has a table? We need to find someone that can hack in and modify the table to say 85mph for everything.

That's what was said in the previous thread a year ago...

 

[HereinDaRockies]

I looked at the zip file.. there is a JSON file containing some info on the content.. There are also file checksums, so I assume it performs some validation against modifications. However, you can generate new checksum and add it into the configuration file.

All the map data are in SQLIte NDS format. Looks like there are various tools for viewing and modifying them https://gis.stackexchange.com/quest...splaying-nds-navigation-data-standard-sqllite

{
    "customerPartNumber": "SW0000000917001400",
    "integrationDay": 24,
    "integrationMonth": 10,
    "integrationYear": 2024,
    "ndsDb": {
        "products": [
            {
                "baselineMapId": 1,
                "creationDateTime": "2024-09-10T09:59:30",
                "files": [
                    {
                        "fileHash": "49826757262db9745583459ba00eb9a9e6050857f4f4e64cd196b6c98a799687",
                        "fileId": 22,
                        "filePath": "NAV/PRODUCT.NDS",
                        "fileSize": 2670592
                    }
                ],
                "internalVersionName": "INEOS_eh_HERE_NAR_254-master_29 NdfToNds (heads/master-dirty-bd49039927 2024-09-04 10:49:06 +0200 / jenkins-Map_master-4390 / 2.5.4_p1)",
                "ndsDbSupplierId": 36,
                "productGroupId": 24468,
                "productId": 9000401,
                "productName": "ISANA_24A",
                "productTypeMask": 1,
                "updateRegions": [
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "ccd65b69ff0d3a5bb5f3c3a113c6939da203564d3a3c541028910f3b51ddcd1a",
                                "fileId": 0,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR100/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 110592
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "f4c34dc70c6cf8b3525accd2fdbd9f0c76383fda4535c7414a73ae8b3c841f4a",
                                "fileId": 1,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR100/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 347443200
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 100,
                        "urName": "NortheastCoast"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "eb60fbe3898edff0e6119abe51abcb8d11aa3f9094d70aa67443f548470f67d0",
                                "fileId": 2,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR101/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 118784
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "facfbab86cedc538fe4bdae020a2d44f1b16adb781cf47d22de9d3ccf5f57a85",
                                "fileId": 3,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR101/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 488435712
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 101,
                        "urName": "EastCoast"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "ecca2fc9b2ff05810188328c26ebf984b5d49a4c8ce019f3767e46a938b8579a",
                                "fileId": 4,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR102/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 57344
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "4a328197170941daee7543e276618afbf1bce160fc81e9f4be2db372423935e6",
                                "fileId": 5,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR102/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 236990464
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 102,
                        "urName": "SouthCoast"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "848f539951b878dd2fbc274a8c2ae594ff9a39bf24180c0dc75b59fe6abc5616",
                                "fileId": 6,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR103/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 57344
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "253611b83e2421c82aeee9b741114be004f64995297c5e16ccc5d7e4256c7a65",
                                "fileId": 7,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR103/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 410419200
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 103,
                        "urName": "South"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "c91693532085f14ccd9605bd809bd3b1fa70fd8af2f15333834b7002c582e9ea",
                                "fileId": 8,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR104/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 94208
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "0e90ad9491fc1200a22f64bf8a3e3c256d0043345a1f4ebb945fd89954320881",
                                "fileId": 9,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR104/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 513540096
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 104,
                        "urName": "GreatLakes"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "dfa774262c78cc235d81186602fed21620adec6b4e75ae3b914ce1860d833081",
                                "fileId": 10,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR105/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 94208
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "dea0faf23c4d75404c31cc6bf31ef8e20161c7aa9b461388da0500d7c02b6b11",
                                "fileId": 11,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR105/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 389369856
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 105,
                        "urName": "GreatPlains"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "4fb71f2bf761950c09cfa7722ca5ad3b404757355c28ece083070291fab3c547",
                                "fileId": 12,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR106/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 24576
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "57bfd7d68b0afe58c03084233e0cdbe7d338c005f0c1a88e0a5d36ecdf2d6d81",
                                "fileId": 13,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR106/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 300949504
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 106,
                        "urName": "Canada"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "a8cc74f74e0c511368c73e9925c3e408dee1af06fdde5a549799f7260d939b22",
                                "fileId": 14,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR107/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 20480
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "581bf88a1744033da96aaeb64fb81a45d307efff54cc215bd489cff063d46986",
                                "fileId": 15,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR107/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 380940288
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 107,
                        "urName": "Mexico"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "1a5af23ed298462d2ef3bb98c07b28af977f311a7f56a9233c559eccf571535a",
                                "fileId": 16,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR108/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 45056
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "6a0a6048412978edbc2afa7a4b4ee88c302c3a06f8036884e70a507ecce89ccf",
                                "fileId": 17,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR108/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 172494848
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 108,
                        "urName": "NorthWestCoast"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "26057416eec89c4049fe56ac1f4823d13f8561e7e198292d53c8eda94f8453b8",
                                "fileId": 18,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR109/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 57344
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "186a30f4e51b98e9c8185a470260b37f176210b5c98f1497c3ede427dcbacd9b",
                                "fileId": 19,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR109/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 299175936
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 109,
                        "urName": "WestCoast"
                    },
                    {
                        "files": [
                            {
                                "fileHash": "037106442035495050ffc12a761a54444d28adb4a4c0486efe50d5468b57c76a",
                                "fileId": 20,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR110/SHARED.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 28672
                            },
                            {
                                "fileHash": "da8fa5041455690e90ebb35fe0c89b96c86956fc5260c4676dc764ad123db9a6",
                                "fileId": 21,
                                "filePath": "NAV/UR110/ROUTE.NDS",
                                "fileSize": 9609216
                            }
                        ],
                        "updateRegionId": 110,
                        "urName": "Alaska"
                    }
                ],
                "versionId": 291242013,
                "versionName": "ISANA_24A"
            }
        ],
        "rootDb": {
            "files": [
                {
                    "fileHash": "09bbfd889f3a417bc5402dd4b9a4266cf752d3553caa4570d9f1c34a1a1406bb",
                    "fileId": 23,
                    "filePath": "ROOT.NDS",
                    "fileSize": 24576
                },
                {
                    "fileHash": "30a3d1fc72676f01fd1196c02661ad84a5eb8cae5e134fe89bc821234706796d",
                    "fileId": 24,
                    "filePath": "ROOT.NDK",
                    "fileSize": 162
                }
            ]
        }
    },
    "sidefiles": [
    ],
    "totalFileSize": 3552772258,
    "totalNumberOfFiles": 25,
    "updateType": "FULL",
    "usedHashFunction": "SHA256"
}

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Surely it has a table? We need to find someone that can hack in and modify the table to say 85mph for everything.

Lol there are dozens of SQL files in the ZIP file..

A snippet of one such SQL file for updating maps..

-- NdsProduct: script for table updates
-- Product       NAV
-- update region 100

-- update bBlockCompVersionTable

               DELETE from bBlockCompVersionTable WHERE updateRegionId = 100 ;

               -- INSERT INTO bBlockCompVersionTable SELECT * FROM source.bBlockCompVersionTable WHERE updateRegionId = 100 ;
            
                  INSERT INTO bBlockCompVersionTable (updateRegionId, buildingBlockId, tableName, columnName, versionId, isDirty, uri) VALUES (100, 0, 'additionalIconRefTable', '', 1, 0, null) ;
                  INSERT INTO bBlockCompVersionTable (updateRegionId, buildingBlockId, tableName, columnName, versionId, isDirty, uri) VALUES (100, 0, 'addressFormatNameTable', '', 1, 0, null) ;
                  INSERT INTO bBlockCompVersionTable (updateRegionId, buildingBlockId, tableName, columnName, versionId, isDirty, uri) VALUES (100, 0, 'addressFormatTable', '', 1, 0, null) ;
                  INSERT INTO bBlockCompVersionTable (updateRegionId, buildingBlockId, tableName, columnName, versionId, isDirty, uri) VALUES (100, 0, 'levelMetadataTable', '', 1, 0, null) ;
                  INSERT INTO bBlockCompVersionTable (updateRegionId, buildingBlock

 

[HereinDaRockies]

So at least now we know the Ineos Infotainment system has a Sqlite server running...

 

[HereinDaRockies]

google brought me back here on FCC certification data on the Chinese made NEusoft infotainment system.

Thread 'Neusoft Infoitanment Manual'

Oct 28, 2024

I guess this could be useful...

https://device.report/neusoft/inm2004mc

Quite similar to the Grenadier Owner manual, but some informations more...

• alvan
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Grenadier Station Wagon

•