9th 10th August INEOS grenadier with Halliwell Jones

[rovie]

> So that you don't get into any legal trouble.

Why should a dealer get into any legal trouble if he sells something which legal to sell or to own? It's in my opinion always in the responsibility of the buyer to hang the part on it's living rooms wall or to do something else with it.

I think he means they would get into trouble legally if the company fitted something that wasn’t road legal.

There is an offence in the UK around motoring offences called Use, cause, permit and it may fall under that if there was a serious accident and someone was seriously hurt or killed. The police would be looking into who was driving and who fitted the illegal part.

Like you say, the part itself would not be illegal to own, just what you did with it.

If the Roobar is not allowed to be fitted in England due to legal requirements, then the dealer will not fit it either, as he is responsible for this.
This is the same in Germany. Possession permitted, use punishable by law.
However, I can buy the roobar and mount it myself, in which case it is my responsibility not to do so on public roads.

 

[emax]

As a pure DIY man I did of course only think about fitting it your self. But you're right, a dealer or any company will not (at leat not officially) fit parts which are illegal in car, in particular not in Germany.

 

[emax]

> I think the argument that the buyer is solely responsible has not ended well for a number of gun manufacturers in the US.

I dare say that there is a slight difference in the context: the discussion is about vehicles and their accessories. But I agree that things might be different with guns, nuclear weapons or drugs.

 

[Shaky]

As an extra to this the UK has an “MOT“ test, basically a yearly Road worthiness test.

Anything that isn’t safe should be picked up and the vehicle failed.

I always see on YouTube companies doing an EGR delete on vehicles and it always amazes me that if this “delete” is an MOT failure if detected. what Normally happens is the MOT tester has a brief moment of blindness and doesn’t spot it during the test, especially if they know the customer.

However what is effectively a massive pedestrian scoop on the front of a vehicle is a bit more obvious and likely to be failed during a test If deemed unsafe. However a new vehicle doesn’t need a test for the first three years so you pays your money you takes your choice.

 

[rovie]

Just to clarify again. I didn't want to spark a big discussion with my question about the Roobar.

As it is not available in Germany, I just wanted to know if it is available for retrofitting in the UK. Unfortunately Australia is too far away for me and in the UK I could take them next time.

If so, I might buy it. And yes, in Germany these bars are prohibited in front of the vehicle. I would also only use it on private property. And not because of the many kangaroos in Germany , but to tie up the horses when they are saddled or just to rest and sweat after a ride. This has proven to be a good idea in the past. The door handles are not designed for such forces.

 

[emax]

It would be a lot of effort to mount and unmount a roobar just to tie up the horses.

The side step / rock slider would suffice, I guess. Or these towing/recovery things (what do you call it?).

 

[rovie]

It would be a lot of effort to mount and unmount a roobar just to tie up the horses.

The side step / rock slider would suffice, I guess. Or these towing/recovery things (what do you call it?)

 

[rovie]

I had a roobar on the Defender. It was even registered because it was fitted before the ban.
emax, of course I wouldn't mount and dismount the bar all the time, but would use this vehicle mainly on private property.

 

[DCPU]

> I think the argument that the buyer is solely responsible has not ended well for a number of gun manufacturers in the US.

I dare say that there is a slight difference in the context: the discussion is about vehicles and their accessories. But I agree that things might be different with guns, nuclear weapons or drugs.

I'm thinking in the context of agent/dealer selling a roo bar, it's fitted and then there's an accident and someone is injured, possibly more so as a result of the roo bar.

Where there's blame, there's a claim.

 

[DCPU]

I would also only use it on private property. And not because of the many kangaroos in Germany , but to tie up the horses when they are saddled or just to rest and sweat after a ride. This has proven to be a good idea in the past. The door handles are not designed for such forces.

Maybe they are mislabelled in the brochure but I think all Grenadiers come standard with 4 horse hitch posts ~ 2 at each end:

 

[DCPU]

Just to clarify again. I didn't want to spark a big discussion with my question about the Roobar.

It's a valid question for a number of items such as the chequerplate, but especially so the towing mounting plate front. How do you use the removable winch at the front when you can't buy this in the UK?

 

[DaveB]

Until the parts ordering side of things is up and running I can't really comment on what we will have access to purchase. I would imagine though if we could order one we probably wouldn't be allowed to fit it due to laws in this country. Very similar to when people ask us to space letters in a number plate to make it look different we simply can't do.

I may however be talking absolute nonsense and we may be able to order and fit but until it's all up and running and we are given guidance on such issues we will just have to wait sorry.

A few years ago there was talk about making bull bars illegal in major cities in Australia. Not sure what they thought people were going to do when they hit the city limits.

 

[DaveB]

If the Roobar is not allowed to be fitted in England due to legal requirements, then the dealer will not fit it either, as he is responsible for this.
This is the same in Germany. Possession permitted, use punishable by law.
However, I can buy the roobar and mount it myself, in which case it is my responsibility not to do so on public roads.

I am a bit confused as to why you want to fit a "roo" bar in the UK. There can't be that many kangaroo's hopping onto roads over there. I have the damn things around my house most nights here. I have also never heard them called Roo bars before. We call them bullbars. Although in outback Australia there is more chance of hitting a camel than a bull.

 

[DCPU]

A few years ago there was talk about making bull bars illegal in major cities in Australia.

According to this they are not illegal in UK. The question is whether Ineos' bar will have or will ever have the necessary compliance to be sold here.

 

[ECrider]

should help the

I am a bit confused as to why you want to fit a "roo" bar in the UK. There can't be that many kangaroo's hopping onto roads over there. I have the damn things around my house most nights here. I have also never heard them called Roo bars before. We call them bullbars. Although in outback Australia there is more chance of hitting a camel than a bull.

No roos but a shed load of deer where I live. The population spiked during covid as game dealers struggled to sell venison as restaurants and airlines weren't buying, thus some who shot deer for sport plus income pulled back.

There's a few spots in Sussex where road signs tell you the number of fatalities (humans) deer have caused that year.

Ok so your chances are low hitting a deer but probably lower still hitting a person.

Plus I like the look of them.

 

[ECrider]

Forgot to add I was having a pint at my local last Thursday and some chap who was driving one of those Rolls Royce convertibles walked out towards the motor saying he had to sort out a slow puncture before he gave the car back to his boss - after pulling away a dozen+ fallow deer ran across the road and one tumbled over his bonnet, another hit a van. All ok but I think the chap forgot about the slow puncture pretty quick!

 

[emax]

> Although in outback Australia there is more chance of hitting a camel than a bull.
On German roads you see thousands of camels*) every day.


*) German "Kamel" as a swearword = Idiot

 

[DCPU]

There's a few spots in Sussex where road signs tell you the number of fatalities (humans) deer have caused that year.

Cannock Chase has a reputation for deer strikes ~ just looking it up and get this: "Each year, there are over 150 road traffic accidents involving deer on Cannock Chase and surrounding roads."

 

[Arkaig]

I would also only use it on private property. And not because of the many kangaroos in Germany , but to tie up the horses when they are saddled or just to rest and sweat after a ride. This has proven to be a good idea in the past. The door handles are not designed for such forces.

I suggest you consider configuring a rear door access ladder as being a simple alternative solution, or even using the exterior utility belt.

 

[ECrider]

Cannock Chase has a reputation for deer strikes ~ just looking it up and get this: "Each year, there are over 150 road traffic accidents involving deer on Cannock Chase and surrounding roads."

"There are up to 75,000 deer vehicle collisions each year in the UK, resulting in 400 to 700 human injuries and several human fatalities each year."

allegedly