7500 km in the Grenadier and back she goes!

[Dono 17]

Ok, so a big previous LR Defender fan, own a 1959 series II and super excite that the Grenadier was next for me. Returned my 2020 LR defender and bought a IG Trialmaster. Huge disappointment! Terrible on tar road holding. Brake and swerve for wild life crossing the road and the huge nose dip and oversteer is down right dangerous. No way my wife is going to handle this. Massive drive train vibration and rear diff only engages 1/3 of the time. Then there’s the clown who located the rear view camera in the centre of the larger of the two doors…. Not above the hitch! Try to hitch a trailer on your own, in the dark at 20 deg below Celsius when it’s snowing! So… it’s going back to Ineos, I’ll enjoy my Ford F350 with solid axles over this any day!!!

 

[landmannnn]

Sounds like the right decision, this vehicle wasn't for you.

 

[Shopkeep]

First and last post? Enjoy the Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forum.

 

[Phred]

You didn’t even tell us what color you had…

 

[Zimm]

Calgary is 20 below already?

Oddly, other than the "return to center" not being up to a track day, I find two lane'rs, and city driving kinda quick in this. It's the highway driving that the casterless brick has more difficulty with.

 

[Dono 17]

Agreed, the highway driving is the biggest issue. In the US and Canada, thousands of miles done on highway - in my case a 12 hour drive each way to Flin Flon, Manitoba. Mostly tarred roads then onto dirt to fish some of the lakes. It handles the dirt/ gravel very well but not the asphalt. My 2020 LR defender was brilliant on and off road…. Just didn’t think it would last long term with all that tech! The reason I posted is just as a heads up to others thinking of over landing in North America. Cheers,

 

[Zimm]

Agreed, the highway driving is the biggest issue. In the US and Canada, thousands of miles done on highway - in my case a 12 hour drive each way to Flin Flon, Manitoba. Mostly tarred roads then onto dirt to fish some of the lakes. It handles the dirt/ gravel very well but not the asphalt. My 2020 LR defender was brilliant on and off road…. Just didn’t think it would last long term with all that tech! The reason I posted is just as a heads up to others thinking of over landing in North America. Cheers,

Yea, I think for the money I'd get a Lexus LS for that type of use. I have an f350, and without 4000 lbs in the back, it sucks donkey balls for all sorts of driving. It does seem odd that your two complaints, if they were your primary needs, would both be sorta obvious on the test drive, and don't really have much to do with "overlanding."

 

[anand]

Agreed, the highway driving is the biggest issue. In the US and Canada, thousands of miles done on highway - in my case a 12 hour drive each way to Flin Flon, Manitoba. Mostly tarred roads then onto dirt to fish some of the lakes. It handles the dirt/ gravel very well but not the asphalt.

Interesting you felt that way, with multiple 12+hr drive days in a row (all highway, nearly all at >125km/h or faster), I felt the Grenadier to be an excellent highway cruiser (well planted, super comfy seats, great driving position); and just the same on twisty mountain backroads as well

 

[Bruce B]

Interesting you felt that way, with multiple 12+hr drive days in a row (all highway, nearly all at >125km/h or faster), I felt the Grenadier to be an excellent highway cruiser (well planted, super comfy seats, great driving position); and just the same on twisty mountain backroads as well

I have only driven about 300 miles in a Grenadier, a loaner, but I too liked the way it drove both on highways and secondary streets. Granted, it is no Porsche but it did very well for me. I was actually convinced that I’d probably like it but not enough to actually want one. I was wrong and I placed my order the day I returned the loaner.

 

[anand]

Granted, it is no Porsche but it did very well for me.

This is an important thing to keep in mind; it isn't a Cayenne or a GLE, or even a 200 series LC, and will never drive like any of those. It is a purpose built tool, and unfortunately I feel that a number of dealers are attempting to push them to the masses

 

[bemax]

So maybe his Grenadier has some issues with the steering that we don’t have. Than for sure it’s the right thing to give it back.
… or to let someone have a look on the steering parts.

 

[DaveB]

Mine has 26,000 kms (16,100 miles) on the clock and drives really well on all types of roads.
Not as smoothly as an SUV but then again I never expected that.
I think North American vehicles/SUV's do tend to have a softer riding setup than we normally do anyway.

Rule of thumb in Australia is never swerve for an animal or you will end up in a ditch or a tree trying to convince a cop and your insurance company that there really was an animal there.
Brake in a straight line and take off as much speed as possible.
Also the reason we have bull bars on our vehicles.

 

[Bruce B]

So maybe his Grenadier has some issues with the steering that we don’t have. Than for sure it’s the right thing to give it back.
… or to let someone have a look on the steering parts.

I am a little amazed at the complaints about Grenadier steering performance. It is a theme that keeps repeating. Of course you are correct, something may have been wrong with the vehicle but I suspect not. I found the steering much like several 3/4 ton vehicles I have driven, different but easily adapted to and just fine once you do.
It is a really curious thing.

 

[Nadir5]

I don't mind mine's highway manners at all. I don't tow, so couldn't offer an opinion one way or another on that. It does seem like relocating the camera would be a possibility, or perhaps adding a camera that mates with your phone if relocation isn't possible but that view is critical. People used to be able to use trailers without cameras helping them not that long ago.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

Sorry to hear you didn’t get to enjoy your purchase. I had a complaint about highway driving after my purchase but any concern I had vanished after a week of ownership, I now love the way it drives and look forward to every chance I have to drive it, especially long road trips. I just got home from a 1000 mile plus trip through the southwest and it performed perfectly and was loaded down with tons of rafting gear and still handles great.

I always tell prospective buyers that they will most likely hate the way it feels on the highway but that after a week you won’t even notice it.

 

[DoubleDoom]

Terrible on tar road holding. Brake and swerve for wild life crossing the road and the huge nose dip and oversteer is down right dangerous.

I am not experiencing anything like that. However, if your tyres are over filled, it can feel that way. Initially mine were pumped for heavy load by the dealer and when warm (over long distances) it became uncomfortable (not too much but more than I would like). I dropped back to a sensible PSI and not had that issue since.

Also, if you are a gripper of the steering wheel rather than relaxed hold, you will keep correcting within the lines. My daughter did it initially. She was steering within the white lines. I told her to let go of the wheel and watch it go in a straight line. And it did. I then told her to relax her hands and just rest on the wheel and guide it when necessary and that worked for her. She didn't suffer it again.

The bottom line is that if you are long distance road running, then any of the LR/RR are going to better than the IG. They are built for that. If you are expecting SUV on road performance with the IG then you are going to be disappointed. It is in line with UV on road performance.

I used the camera during a hail storm to attach a 3.5T muck trailer and had no issues at all. However, my Defender Puma rear camera was offset (the other side) and never had a problem with that either.

 

[globalgregors]

Agreed, the highway driving is the biggest issue. In the US and Canada, thousands of miles done on highway - in my case a 12 hour drive each way to Flin Flon, Manitoba. Mostly tarred roads then onto dirt to fish some of the lakes. It handles the dirt/ gravel very well but not the asphalt. My 2020 LR defender was brilliant on and off road…. Just didn’t think it would last long term with all that tech! The reason I posted is just as a heads up to others thinking of over landing in North America. Cheers,

Acknowledged, here’s a message for those who are intending to overland North America.

Have now done upwards of 30,000km overlanding just in North America and this is absolutely not our experience.

Dempster Highway, the ALCAN, Denali Highway, Top Of The World Highway, Trans-Labrador Highway, the entire Trans-Canada… ate them all up.

Also got great support from the Ineos North America team and dealer network around sustaining the Grenadier in arduous conditions.

No matter what you’re in, it’s always great to chat with another overlander. Good luck with the next vehicle!

 

[Shopkeep]

Mine has 26,000 kms (16,100 miles) on the clock and drives really well on all types of roads.
Not as smoothly as an SUV but then again I never expected that.
I think North American vehicles/SUV's do tend to have a softer riding setup than we normally do anyway.

Rule of thumb in Australia is never swerve for an animal or you will end up in a ditch or a tree trying to convince a cop and your insurance company that there really was an animal there.
Brake in a straight line and take off as much speed as possible.
Also the reason we have bull bars on our vehicles.

View attachment 7871437View attachment 7871438

Reckon if it was a 600kg 2m high moose in your headlights you might consider swerving....

 

[Korg]

I have now done over 17,000km with approx. 5,000km off road and the steering now is the best it has ever been BUT it has been a long journey:

1. When the car was delivered the toe and camber were out and the tyres (K02's) were over inflated at 50PSI. The steering as a result was wandering and required constant input and was very tiring to drive. I had all of this fixed and the steering was acceptable.
2. At around 4,000km on a long interstate trip the steering wheel rotated 90 degrees so that the top dead centre was now at 3 o'clock! ESC and numerous other warnings went off and I limped it back to the dealer despite being advised to have it towed. The dealer "fixed" the issue as I found out much later. After this the steering was straight and it mostly tracked well with no apparent issues for another 6,000kms.
3. At around 10,000km whilst overlanding and 200km from the nearest workshop the ESC light came on again and the steering wheel had rotated around 30 degrees to the 1 o'clock position. I called the dealer using Star Link and they said to get it towed to Townsville or Bourke and to call road side assistance. I was not confident that roadside assistance could or would turn up to such a remote site. The technician called me within 15mins and we agreed that he would come out to our campsite the following morning. Within 30 seconds of trouble shooting the mechanic found the issue. In my opinion, the dealer had tightened the steering locknut to the wrong side and also the locking nut on the knuckle directly behind the right hand wheel was very lose. Video proof here. The field mechanic did an eyeball alignment and fixed the issues found. I had a "discussion" with the dealer who denied all responsibility - a simple apology was all that I was after. I limped to Bourke and got a wheel alignment.
4. I've done another 5,000km or so and now have an occasionally clanging steering stabilizer housing which the dealer says is due to "impact". Annoying as I am not aware of any impact. I intend to replace the damper with the Kings one.

So the steering is now (apart from the intermittent cow bell clanging on harsh bumps) perfect both on and off road. The steering returns to centre, tracks well and needs little corrective input on the highways. It is annoying that the earlier issues could all have been avoided and are not in fact the fault of the car but due to a of lack of manuals and training at the dealership along with the inevitable human factor. A pity that the dealership will not "man up" and accept the fact that they f'cked up.

I still love my Grenadier.

 

[globalgregors]

I have now done over 17,000km with approx. 5,000km off road and the steering now is the best it has ever been BUT it has been a long journey:

1. When the car was delivered the toe and camber were out and the tyres (K02's) were over inflated at 50PSI. The steering as a result was wandering and required constant input and was very tiring to drive. I had all of this fixed and the steering was acceptable.
2. At around 4,000km on a long interstate trip the steering wheel rotated 90 degrees so that the top dead centre was now at 3 o'clock! ESC and numerous other warnings went off and I limped it back to the dealer despite being advised to have it towed. The dealer "fixed" the issue as I found out much later. After this the steering was straight and it mostly tracked well with no apparent issues for another 6,000kms.
3. At around 10,000km whilst overlanding and 200km from the nearest workshop the ESC light came on again and the steering wheel had rotated around 30 degrees to the 1 o'clock position. I called the dealer using Star Link and they said to get it towed to Townsville or Bourke and to call road side assistance. I was not confident that roadside assistance could or would turn up to such a remote site. The technician called me within 15mins and we agreed that he would come out to our campsite the following morning. Within 30 seconds of trouble shooting the mechanic found the issue. In my opinion, the dealer had tightened the steering locknut to the wrong side and also the locking nut on the knuckle directly behind the right hand wheel was very lose. Video proof here. The field mechanic did an eyeball alignment and fixed the issues found. I had a "discussion" with the dealer who denied all responsibility - a simple apology was all that I was after. I limped to Bourke and got a wheel alignment.
4. I've done another 5,000km or so and now have an occasionally clanging steering stabilizer housing which the dealer says is due to "impact". Annoying as I am not aware of any impact. I intend to replace the damper with the Kings one.

So the steering is now (apart from the intermittent cow bell clanging on harsh bumps) perfect both on and off road. The steering returns to centre, tracks well and needs little corrective input on the highways. It is annoying that the earlier issues could all have been avoided and are not in fact the fault of the car but due to a of lack of manuals and training at the dealership along with the inevitable human factor. A pity that the dealership will not "man up" and accept the fact that they f'cked up.

I still love my Grenadier.

That’s all most interesting - thanks for documenting your experience. 2 & 3 sound particularly alarming.

I’ve taken to running at 50psi on highway, and while I quite like the driving dynamics my co-pilot maybe finds it a bit twitchy. Across Oz we were running them at 38/40 F/R.

What pressure have you landed on for on-road use? Any estimate of how heavy your vehicle is in present use?