Steering stabilizer bar

anand · Aug 12, 2024

KLF said:
No, I requested it. They just called me to tell me the problem was with the OME stabilizer that was installed. So my 2 choices were to go back to factory or switch it to the Fox stabilizer. As terrifying as my experience was, I opted to go with the Fox. I have a 2020 Defender and that will be the only car that I take on the highway again. I'll just use the Grenadier for around town.

The Fox (like the OME) is softer than the stock, which lessens the dampening ability, which could lead to the death wobble...

PNW_IG · Aug 12, 2024

Glad you are ok. I hope they find the issue soon and get your rig back to you. It has been many years since I dealt with death wobble on my FJ40 and I am no expert, but I most people back then agreed a damper was only a Band-Aid fix for other issues. It was typically the cause was tires out of balance, warn steering, or warn suspension components. Hopefully it is something lose and easy to fix. I look forward to hearing what the fix is/was. I remember driving down Cajon Pass in crazy traffic and almost losing control. It is very scary!

Cheers.

jcurtin · Aug 12, 2024

Shopkeep said:
Not sure Ineos Automotive has a serious issue as they will say don’t fit an aftermarket damper. Some US Ineos dealers who seem to have proactively fitted these aftermarket dampers may be the ones with the issue and may be a better target of your outrea

Catpaw4x4 said:
Do let us know what is determined to be the problem. Out of balance tires? (Probably not ) U joint ?? Had something similar happen on my 96 Discovery on the interstate coming home from the airport ~1am years ago - just out to the clear blue! Waited for AAA to come to the re

KLF said:
No, I requested it. They just called me to tell me the problem was with the OME stabilizer that was installed. So my 2 choices were to go back to factory or switch it to the Fox stabilizer. As terrifying as my experience was, I opted to go with the Fox. I have a 2020 Defender and that will be the only car that I take on the highway again. I'll just use the Grenadier for around town.

fyi, my unit had the Fox model on it and had the issue. If your dealer is indeed recommending Fox unit will solve the problem, that is inconsistent and in conflict with what I experienced + am hearing from my dealer. I am 100% going back to stock based on experience + various other info I'm reading on topic.

Cheshire cat · Aug 13, 2024

KLF said:
No, I requested it. They just called me to tell me the problem was with the OME stabilizer that was installed. So my 2 choices were to go back to factory or switch it to the Fox stabilizer. As terrifying as my experience was, I opted to go with the Fox. I have a 2020 Defender and that will be the only car that I take on the highway again. I'll just use the Grenadier for around town.

A shame for you. Although the on road manners of the Grenadier will never match the new Defender, 300 mile trips at 80 MPH present me with no issues, steering, comfort, or otherwise. Wish I could say the same about fuel consumption.

parb · Aug 13, 2024

Are you all not more worried about a systemic oscillation in the steering system while driving in a straight line?

I'm having a hard time believing that the steering system was designed with such an imbalance when driving in a straight line on a good road at regular speeds. I remain unconvinced that we have gotten to root cause and that the reinstall with a stiffer dampener is masking rather than solving the underlying problem.

Now if the road surface has harmonics in it and that reflected back into the steering system then maybe I can understand it, but the reports of the events indicate that is was good flat roads and regular speeds.

Either way, I'm suspicious of the overly soft dampers, and especially untested diy. The fox one that needs frequent rebuilds scare me, how will that behave when you're nearing end of service life and need a rebuild?

My few cents

anand · Aug 13, 2024

parb said:
The fox one that needs frequent rebuilds scare me, how will that behave when you're nearing end of service life and need a rebuild?

This is a fantastic question to raise...

Krabby · Aug 13, 2024

Stick. With. The. Factory. Part.

MRO · Aug 13, 2024

UK roads are in a shocking state and it is pretty common to hit potholes or deep dents at 70mph. With the standard damper the steering goes dead and there is wobble for half a second. No way I am going for a softer steering damper, and as with old defender/range rover, a critical part to replace when it goes out of spec.

Cheshire cat · Aug 13, 2024

So many complaints on steering means that for many, there must be something not right. Ineos really need to find out where the problem lies.
Anyone concerned with steering and living or visiting my part of the world, is more than welcome to try out a stock steering assembly with absolutely no issues.

dooglejones · Aug 13, 2024

PNW_IG said:
Glad you are ok. I hope they find the issue soon and get your rig back to you. It has been many years since I dealt with death wobble on my FJ40 and I am no expert, but I most people back then agreed a damper was only a Band-Aid fix for other issues. It was typically the cause was tires out of balance, warn steering, or warn suspension components. Hopefully it is something lose and easy to fix. I look forward to hearing what the fix is/was. I remember driving down Cajon Pass in crazy traffic and almost losing control. It is very scary!

Cheers.

Former Wrangler owner with death wobble. This would be my concern as well. Root cause usually something else. Steering stabilizer masks the issue until it can't handle it anymore. Dealer puts on a new steering stabilizer and it feels like it's fixed but it's just a matter of time until it happens again if root cause not rectified.

FlyersFan76 · Aug 13, 2024

I am probably selling the non-rebuildable Fox stabilizer that I purchased from Agile a few months ago.

I did notice a difference, but I found that the stock stabilizer is better for my daily drive. I will post an ad in the Classifieds.

I only put less than 1500 miles on it.

parb · Aug 14, 2024

FlyersFan76 said:
I am probably selling the non-rebuildable Fox stabilizer that I purchased from Agile a few months ago.

I did notice a difference, but I found that the stock stabilizer is better for my daily drive. I will post an ad in the Classifieds.

I only put less than 1500 miles on it.

In what way is the stock better for a daily drive? I'm having the opposite experience but i want to learn from you, maybe i'm not driving on varied enough roadtypes to get the full picture?

Adamc1303 · Aug 14, 2024

Question- I got my Geendier a week ago and couldn’t stand the steering. I ordered a new stabilizer from owl but it hasn’t come in yet. I did remove the factory one last week and wasn’t really planning on driving too much anyway. I got my wheels changed to all black last week and noticed that they didn’t inflate my tires all exactly how they should be. I inflated them to the specs on the door and then came across this thread. So I deflated them today. I stupidly trusted some cheap product from Amazon to deflate the tires.

“ Adjustable Tire Deflator Auto-Stop (10-40 PSI) Offroad Accessories Valve Stem kit 4x4 Tyre Air Down Tool for Truck, Pickup, Motorcycle,Jeep etc.(Black)“

Anyway I set it to 36 PSI and hopped in with my wife and kids on a Costco run. The car was showing me that the tires pressure sensor monitor is lost. So I didn’t know what my tire pressure was but I did deflate to 36 psi using those deflators. The tires did feel low through because the car wasn’t driving as fast. Anyway while on the highway I experienced a serious death wobble!!!! For about 4 seconds which is a lifetime when you’re going 80 on a highway, the steering wheel was vibrating and shaking from side to side like a jack hammer. I got a major skin burn on the p of my hand from holding onto the wheel the entire time to control it. I felt like I was skidding in snow at 80 MPH, only that I am located in Florida. I got home and checked my the pressure I. The tires and they were anywhere from 20 to 22 PSI! I immediately inflated them so I can use the car to get to work tomorrow. Being that I am not too experienced at all, my question is did I get this death wobble because of low pressure in my tires or because the steering stabilizer was removed?

Thanks,

Adam

Shopkeep · Aug 14, 2024

Adamc1303 said:
Question- I got my Geendier a week ago and couldn’t stand the steering. I ordered a new stabilizer from owl but it hasn’t come in yet. I did remove the factory one last week and wasn’t really planning on driving too much anyway. I got my wheels changed to all black last week and noticed that they didn’t inflate my tires all exactly how they should be. I inflated them to the specs on the door and then came across this thread. So I deflated them today. I stupidly trusted some cheap product from Amazon to deflate the tires.

“ Adjustable Tire Deflator Auto-Stop (10-40 PSI) Offroad Accessories Valve Stem kit 4x4 Tyre Air Down Tool for Truck, Pickup, Motorcycle,Jeep etc.(Black)“

Anyway I set it to 36 PSI and hopped in with my wife and kids on a Costco run. The car was showing me that the tires pressure sensor monitor is lost. So I didn’t know what my tire pressure was but I did deflate to 36 psi using those deflators. The tires did feel low through because the car wasn’t driving as fast. Anyway while on the highway I experienced a serious death wobble!!!! For about 4 seconds which is a lifetime when you’re going 80 on a highway, the steering wheel was vibrating and shaking from side to side like a jack hammer. I got a major skin burn on the p of my hand from holding onto the wheel the entire time to control it. I felt like I was skidding in snow at 80 MPH, only that I am located in Florida. I got home and checked my the pressure I. The tires and they were anywhere from 20 to 22 PSI! I immediately inflated them so I can use the car to get to work tomorrow. Being that I am not too experienced at all, my question is did I get this death wobble because of low pressure in my tires or because the steering stabilizer was removed?

Thanks,

Adam

View attachment 7866692

Both. I would not be doing 80 on your freeways without the damper fitted, but low tyre pressure can also cause steering vibrations and wobble. I have tried freeways at 70mph without the damper fitted no problem but with correct tyre pressure and very smooth asphalt (no expansion joints).

anand · Aug 14, 2024

Adamc1303 said:
Anyway I set it to 36 PSI and hopped in with my wife and kids on a Costco run. The car was showing me that the tires pressure sensor monitor is lost. So I didn’t know what my tire pressure was but I did deflate to 36 psi using those deflators. The tires did feel low through because the car wasn’t driving as fast. Anyway while on the highway I experienced a serious death wobble!!!! For about 4 seconds which is a lifetime when you’re going 80 on a highway, the steering wheel was vibrating and shaking from side to side like a jack hammer. I got a major skin burn on the p of my hand from holding onto the wheel the entire time to control it. I felt like I was skidding in snow at 80 MPH, only that I am located in Florida. I got home and checked my the pressure I. The tires and they were anywhere from 20 to 22 PSI! I immediately inflated them so I can use the car to get to work tomorrow. Being that I am not too experienced at all, my question is did I get this death wobble because of low pressure in my tires or because the steering stabilizer was removed?

As stated above, either could have contributed to your handling issue; although low tire pressure generally causes wandering not a death wobble. Based on the experiences of others here, I'm going to guess it was caused by your lack of steering damper (or, realistically, having a softer than stock damper).

Additionally, if your tires are not the factory size, the pressure ratings in the door and manual do not directly correlate to what you should be running. The appropriate thing to do would be to take the pressures stated for OEM tires, find the load in an inflation chart that they correspond to, and match the load on an inflation chart for your new tire size to find the proper pressure. Or, you could do the chalk test.

Adamc1303 · Aug 14, 2024

anand said:
As stated above, either could have contributed to your handling issue; although low tire pressure generally causes wandering not a death wobble. Based on the experiences of others here, I'm going to guess it was caused by your lack of steering damper (or, realistically, having a softer than stock damper).

Additionally, if your tires are not the factory size, the pressure ratings in the door and manual do not directly correlate to what you should be running. The appropriate thing to do would be to take the pressures stated for OEM tires, find the load in an inflation chart that they correspond to, and match the load on an inflation chart for your new tire size to find the proper pressure. Or, you could do the chalk test.

I am using the factory tires. They were taken off the wheels so they wheels can be painted but both the tires and wheels are factory.

Adamc1303 · Aug 14, 2024

Shopkeep said:
Both. I would not be doing 80 on your freeways without the damper fitted, but low tyre pressure can also cause steering vibrations and wobble. I have tried freeways at 70mph without the damper fitted no problem but with correct tyre pressure and very smooth asphalt (no expansion joints).

Should I be ok to drive at higher speeds once I have the fox stabilizer installed? Or will it not be as safe as the OEM stabilizer?

Thanks,

Adam

Shopkeep · Aug 14, 2024

Adamc1303 said:
Should I be ok to drive at higher speeds once I have the fox stabilizer installed? Or will it not be as safe as the OEM stabilizer?

Thanks,

Adam

If you have a mild appetite for risk try the Fox stabilizer, many others use this successfully but there has been a report of "death" wobble with this damper. If you want to remove all risk and uncertainty and sleep well at night then refit the factory damper.

anand · Aug 14, 2024

Adamc1303 said:
Should I be ok to drive at higher speeds once I have the fox stabilizer installed? Or will it not be as safe as the OEM stabilizer?

Thanks,

Adam

The recent posts regarding death wobble all (someone gladly correct me if I'm wrong) have been with a steering damper that was softer than stock.

All of the Fox dampers (unless you get the adjustable race one from Owl and make it stiffer than stock), the OME, etc. are all softer than stock.

"Death wobble" isn't only a risk at "higher speeds".

The vehicle was designed for the steering damper it comes with for a reason. The stiffness of the factory damper makes the steering very smooth and not prone to kickback or sudden terrain steer in off road applications. The byproduct of that is heavier steering on road as well

jcurtin · Aug 14, 2024

Adamc1303 said:
Should I be ok to drive at higher speeds once I have the fox stabilizer installed? Or will it not be as safe as the OEM stabilizer?

Thanks,

Adam

My vehicle had bad shaking with fox... am going back to stock.

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