Land Rover feeling the Heat?

AWo · Jun 18, 2024

German official statistics of new car registrations from the KBA year-to-month-end May 2024
JLR New Defender: 1546 (+187)
JLR Discovery: 212 (+29)
JLR Range Rover: 569 (+137)
JLR Land Rover all-in-all: 5374

Ineos: 379 (+49)
Decreasing trend still ongoing, dropped from 57 in April to 49 in May. Or in other words, 8 cars sold less are 15% decrease in sales....

N1 are included in these numbers.

AWo · Jul 5, 2024

Regarding SMMT the UK registrations of the IG is at 25 units in June.

AWo

Logsplitter · Jul 5, 2024

AWo said:
Regarding SMMT the UK registrations of the IG is at 25 units in June.

AWo

I hope this declining trend doesn’t continue

AWo · Jul 5, 2024

It could be less interest or the dealer do not get new cars, as (as Lynn Calder has stated) the US and China are in focus now. They can't produce US and European cars in parallel, so they have to decide what to produce or they do it related to single orders.

AWo

Rab · Jul 5, 2024

It’s down to price, there was a meeting with all the uk dealers and Ineos in June and the number one topic was to reduce the price. There is plenty of interest in the product, but the incentive needs to be there for people on top of the fence.

landmannnn · Jul 5, 2024

AWo said:
Regarding SMMT the UK registrations of the IG is at 25 units in June.

AWo

I think you have to add 39 to that in order to include the N1 sales.

landmannnn · Jul 5, 2024

Rab said:
It’s down to price, there was a meeting with all the uk dealers and Ineos in June and the number one topic was to reduce the price. There is plenty of interest in the product, but the incentive needs to be there for people on top of the fence.

Is it really price? Except for car enthusiasts, saying Ineos Grenadier to most people gets a completely blank expression.

landmannnn · Jul 6, 2024

This article from Autocar quotes Calder with a target of 250 to 300 thousand per year.
Admittedly pre the Fusilier announcement, it sounds very ambitious.

How Lynn Calder took Ineos from tough beginnings to success | Autocar

We hear about the learning curve, luck and bloody-mindedness that took Ineos Automotive from an idea to reality

www.autocar.co.uk

JonSutton · Jul 6, 2024

landmannnn said:
This article from Autocar quotes Calder with a target of 250 to 300 thousand per year.
Admittedly pre the Fusilier announcement, it sound very ambitious.

How Lynn Calder took Ineos from tough beginnings to success | Autocar

We hear about the learning curve, luck and bloody-mindedness that took Ineos Automotive from an idea to reality

www.autocar.co.uk

Ambitious, I agree. Sounds utterly unachievable.
JLR are now advertising Range Rover on mainstream TV in the UK suggesting things are getting tougher (unless it’s just PR puff).

Jeremy996 · Jul 6, 2024

landmannnn said:
This article from Autocar quotes Calder with a target of 250 to 300 thousand per year.
Admittedly pre the Fusilier announcement, it sound very ambitious.

How Lynn Calder took Ineos from tough beginnings to success | Autocar

We hear about the learning curve, luck and bloody-mindedness that took Ineos Automotive from an idea to reality

www.autocar.co.uk

I think that is more than unachievable, I think they are an order of magnitude out, based on previous statements, 25-30,000 perhaps.

G-Man · Jul 8, 2024

JonSutton said:
Ambitious, I agree. Sounds utterly unachievable.
JLR are now advertising Range Rover on mainstream TV in the UK suggesting things are getting tougher (unless it’s just PR puff).

That's because all the old ones have been stolen and shipped out of the country in 40ft containers overnight

LR want to remind people that they can still buy another one (even though the insurance premiums are now eye watering)

DoubleDoom · Jul 8, 2024

Rab said:
It’s down to price, there was a meeting with all the uk dealers and Ineos in June and the number one topic was to reduce the price. There is plenty of interest in the product, but the incentive needs to be there for people on top of the fence.

And they just put the price up again in the UK. I ordered mine in April and its still awaiting a build slot. I ordered about a week after a large price increase and was kicking myself. Then when the red appeared on the configurator, I did a play to replicate what I had but in red, and the price was higher again. Not as big a jump as before but about £800.

There was a lot of 23.5MY stock across dealers that needed to be sold before this week to avoid the retrofitting of driver assistance. That was being heavily discounted with £9k off the 2023 list price (so more like 11k off current price). When I ordered mine, the dealer tried to get me to pick a 23.5 rather than a new build. So, stock clearance would have had an impact on UK and Europe sales.

DoubleDoom · Jul 8, 2024

G-Man said:
That's because all the old ones have been stolen and shipped out of the country in 40ft containers overnight

LR want to remind people that they can still buy another one (even though the insurance premiums are now eye watering)

The insurance premium issue has gone away. It was a media created storm. Our RR was £760 last year. When the media was at its worst frenzy in January, I checked ours on a comparison site and it went to over £3000 Then in April I looked again and it was just over £1000. Now renewal has come in at £870 but shopping around brings it back down to just over £500.

Cheshire cat · Jul 8, 2024

DoubleDoom said:
The insurance premium issue has gone away. It was a media created storm. Our RR was £760 last year. When the media was at its worst frenzy in January, I checked ours on a comparison site and it went to over £3000 Then in April I looked again and it was just over £1000. Now renewal has come in at £870 but shopping around brings it back down to just over £500.

That’s very good to hear in the interests of 4x4’s overall.

landmannnn · Jul 8, 2024

DoubleDoom said:
The insurance premium issue has gone away. It was a media created storm. Our RR was £760 last year. When the media was at its worst frenzy in January, I checked ours on a comparison site and it went to over £3000 Then in April I looked again and it was just over £1000. Now renewal has come in at £870 but shopping around brings it back down to just over £500.

Wasn't the issue that the Range Rover model name had been applied to all models with the Range Rover name?

So dozens of different models, but all the theft statistics were attributed to being Range Rovers.

G-Man · Jul 8, 2024

LR models have moved down to #5, #6 and #10 in the UK's top 10 stolen vehicles since LR released remedial OTA updates to help prevent key fob signals from being intercepted.

Ford Fiestas are now the UK's most stolen vehicle.

https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-most-stolen-cars-in-the-uk/n21162

BigJock2024 · Jul 8, 2024

JonSutton said:
I agree with you. I test drove three ND’s and felt there was little point in buying one. I’m coming out of an L405 for a Grenadier next month and am expecting a proper tow vehicle with off road capability to match or better the L405, which is very good off road, even on sloping wet grass. The Gren will be noisy and slow by comparison but I’ll not worry about panel damage and scratches. The air suspension and silent comfort will be missed as will the miserly fuel consumption.
I find glass roof to be ok in the UK, better with the blind shut in hot weather.

The Gren will last longer, a proper keeper.

Resurrecting a very old thread here, but would love to hear your thoughts after all this time on having moved from the L405 to the Grenadier?
Reason being the L405 is (was) my current weekender, and it's just been replaced by the Fieldmaster. While the L405 is in my view the best Range Rover to date - great off road, sublime on-road, I've now done 200 miles in Greta so far and I am having an absolute ball. I don't see me going back.
But on saying that, I have to do a road trip to Newcastle and Liverpool from London next week, and I'll be taking the L405.
I have to say, the L405 second hand market has absolutely gone down the toilet, I haven't had a decent offer in 2 months. So I'll be keeping her for a little bit, but could really use the space on the driveway, and she is not cheap on tax + insurance!
Thanks for any thoughts.

DoubleDoom · Jul 8, 2024

landmannnn said:
Wasn't the issue that the Range Rover model name had been applied to all models with the Range Rover name?

So dozens of different models, but all the theft statistics were attributed to being Range Rovers.

It was mainly misinformation based on old data. All their current range had the new security, which is fine. Most of their models since 2018 had that security (a few end-of-line models crept into it a year or two later).
The frenzy on thefts was on the older models, and the insurers, at the time, had no way or chose not to differentiate and hit all owners the same way. JLR got the data to the insurers on which models, years and types had the better security and that caused the prices on those ones to drop quite quickly again. It's been doing retrospective updates on certain older ones. So, they should see similar "return to normal" pricing already or in the new future.

The media appeared to have it in for JLR even though they were third on the cars stolen at the time.

On the stolen landrovers group, the first Grenadier appeared as stolen over the weekend.

IdahoGrenadier · Jul 8, 2024

The ND isn't my cup of tea, but they are selling them as fast as they can get them in Boise. I see them everywhere from downtown to the mountains. They hit a real sweet spot as a luxury brand at an achievable price in a vehicle that is great if you've got kids and want to get around in the snow and on high clearance roads occasionally. They've got that "I'm different like all my friends" vibe.

JLR and Ineos dealers have the same ownership in Boise. When I test drove an NG before my delivery just to be sure, I had to drive a couple year old used model in the wrong trim because otherwise they had two 2-doors on the lot. I stood there for 20 minutes after talking to reception. before a sales person even bothered to talk to me.

The Ineos lot has 20-30 vehicles all the time, including a healthy number available for purchase. The JLR sales manager texted me after my drive and pushed me toward keeping my IG reservation (not that I was in doubt). One of the IG guys made a comment about how IA was upping dealers to 40 deliveries a month and he sounded not too thrilled about those expectations.

In all, here in the western US, I think if you are a JLR dealer you are pissed that they aren't getting you enough ND units. If you are an IG dealer you are skeptical that the pricing and advertising is going to be enough to keep the momentum going when the initial online orders are fulfilled.

I've had quality control issues with my IG, but you can't say they didn't get them out the door impressively quickly for a startup.

Sillius Soddus · Jul 8, 2024

IdahoGrenadier said:
They've got that "I'm different like all my friends" vibe.

Certainly an apt description of the ND drivers around here. I think we Grenadier owners are more like…

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