Long distance higher speed driving

Lord Ripon USA · Dec 9, 2023

Mr.Espresso said:
My take, it’s a bunch of gun-shy people on this forum, who secretly want the Grenadier, but secretly don’t have the guts to spend the money. So they spend their days, on an anonymous forum, bitchin about shit, that really makes no difference. Indecisiveness is a disease…

As I have said a few times, the pre order deposit was too small.
Now the internet is awash in people that can’t afford the car they ordered.
That’s OK to me, I‘m starting to find the endless search for the fly shit in the black pepper comical.

flynnsk · Dec 9, 2023

Lord Ripon USA said:
As I have said a few times, the pre order deposit was too small.
Now the internet is awash in people that can’t afford the car they ordered.
That’s OK to me, I‘m starting to find the endless search for the fly shit in the black pepper comical.

In Laws are from MI (Shelby TWP), 1st time I've heard "fly shit in the black pepper",.

Mr.Espresso · Dec 9, 2023

flynnsk said:
In Laws are from MI (Shelby TWP), 1st time I've heard "fly shit in the black pepper",.

Lord Ripon is actually Sir Jim Ratcliff, or another executive from Ineos Corporate. He was forced to give the locals their freedoms, much like what happened in India, during Lord Rippon’s mandate.

Lord Ripon USA · Dec 9, 2023

Just a guy that builds factories full of automation to build cars.
Nobody special.
I am a car guy through and through though.
I have too many.

The thing that people should be concerned about is actually the electronics on the vehicle. They are under developed at this time, and will turn the vehicle into a brick someday if they quit working.

That is worrisome.

over the next six months, at least in the US, the market place will sift out all of the folks that should never have ordered one, and there will be Grenadier’s available for purchase. Thankfully, the inventory will be vehicles that were attractively specced.
And electronic problems will either be fixed or deleted.

Still no direct contact from my assigned dealer.

.

Tomdoc · Dec 9, 2023

To answer the original question, we have had some really crappy weather here in UK recently, freezing fog, rain, snow, high winds etc. I drove my IG 300 miles in apalling conditions on the motorway this week and felt as safe as I have ever done in any vehicle. It is solid and dependable at motorway speeds, doesn't get buffeted by trucks and has plenty of grunt, sticking to its lane and dealing with fog, heavy rain and snow without any trouble. Just superb, I actually commented about it to my wife after the journey, shame about some of the other muppets on the road (no lights on, driving too close etc etc!)

YellowLab · Dec 9, 2023

Lord Ripon USA said:
Just a guy that builds factories full of automation to build cars.
Nobody special.
I am a car guy through and through though.
I have too many.

The thing that people should be concerned about is actually the electronics on the vehicle. They are under developed at this time, and will turn the vehicle into a brick someday if they quit working.

That is worrisome.

over the next six months, at least in the US, the market place will sift out all of the folks that should never have ordered one, and there will be Grenadier’s available for purchase. Thankfully, the inventory will be vehicles that were attractively specced.
And electronic problems will either be fixed or deleted.

Still no direct contact from my assigned dealer.

.

The vehicle is all Bosch electronics - given that they control electronics in probably the majority of cars on the planet and Magna Styr designed the systems jointly with Bosch - I'm not too worried about it.

Time to focus on sorting the black pepper/fly shit again.

Mr.Espresso · Dec 9, 2023

YellowLab said:
The vehicle is all Bosch electronics -given that they control electronics in probably the majority of cars on the planet and Magna Styr designed these - I'm not too worried about it. Time to focus on the black pepper/fly shit again.

Me and Magna Styr have a wonderful relationship!!! They are one of the last standing, German/Swiss/Austrian Skunk Works, capable of building cars, “the German way” of yesteryear!!!

In 1987, a Mercedes 300E, would set you back $105k in 2023 USD. Currently, the same entry level Mercedes e-class, 2023 model, will set you back $58k USD.

Certainly in 36 years there have been advancements in manufacturing, material science, and economies of scale. However, there has also been a reduction in build quality.

Ineos + Magna Styr, building what they have built, for $85k USD, is the DEAL OF THE DECADE, in the automotive world!!!

reauxheaux · Dec 9, 2023

Roach said:
Was talking with another pre-order person today and they mentioned that the 60 to 75mph on a freeway takes a bit more than other cars (for him it was Defender).

I’ve gone on a freeway test drive but I don’t recall if the car wanders requiring more attention to stay in lane. Would love to hear some feedback from those that have done a long haul at freeway speeds.

FYI, searched but didn’t find anything other than comments regarding “wobbling” (vs wandering.

Drove about 400 interstate miles yesterday, my take. Rain, traffic, rain, interchanges, rain, night driving, windy and raining for a lot of the drive. (For reference my normal interstate driving is a modified Wrangler, Civic, or S-Class)

Will do 85 without thinking twice. Never once did I think "ah, I don't have the power to make that gap." Very responsive throttle and don't feel any real turbo lag.

Certainly need more steering input than a sedan, but less than the my Jeep. Steering is heavy, but tight. I drive with my left hand only, so I did notice a bit more "fatigue" at the end of the trip.

Road noise is surprisingly good for such a ride. The safari windows are loud when open at speed. Infotainment is not that intuitive, but have had way worse. Really felt planted the whole time, never felt it hydroplane (wanted to feel it honestly).

The most trivial complaint I could have. The steering wheel is too small. Like, one inch too small. I am sure it is engineered or whatever to a certain size for feel, but hey, that is my trivial complaint that doesn't really bother me.

Edited to add....
Just realized the steering wheel telescopes. Not surprising that it does/doesn't, but when I made adjustments yesterday it didn't seems as freely moving as my Jeep so I just assumed it didn't telescope. I think that would have made my drive more enjoyable yesterday and probably solves the steeringwheel size comment.

TD5-90 · Dec 9, 2023

Mr.Espresso said:
Ineos + Magna Styr, building what they have built, for $85k USD, is the DEAL OF THE DECADE, in the automotive world!!!

Exactly my opinion. This car is everything but expensive. It's the only _real_ deal that I made when buying stuff for the last 10 years. Cheapish overpriced plastic low quality crap everywhere else. Ok, I bought for the early subscriber price, but still I think the value for money is outstanding.

My confidence in the vehicle and the development team grew again quite substantially last weekend: At the INEOS Maselheim event last weekend, there were 70+ Grenadiers. All of them made it through the day with several deep ice water crossings, none of them got stuck, and apparently all of the owners made it home without any damage. Vast majority with non-modified vehicles. See pictures here in the forum.

At least here in Europe this vehicle is the last opportunity to buy something real. We should appreciate this.

255/85 · Dec 9, 2023

Lord Ripon USA said:
The thing that people should be concerned about is actually the electronics on the vehicle. They are under developed at this time, and will turn the vehicle into a brick someday if they quit working.

That is worrisome.

That appears to me as a ridiculous statement when most - if not all - modern vehicles operate with the same constraints. @YellowLab has said so alreadty. Many here have commented on the Grenadier's over abundance of electronic wizardry whereas you have generally been in the minority of folks asking for more. And now some strange call for even more to make the vehicle simpler or more reliable? What the...?

Lord Ripon USA said:
over the next six months, at least in the US, the market place will sift out all of the folks that should never have ordered one, and there will be Grenadier’s available for purchase. Thankfully, the inventory will be vehicles that were attractively specced.
And electronic problems will either be fixed or deleted.

Maybe it's inadvertant on your part but I get the distinct impression your motivation, conscious or not, is to sow as much discontent as you can with the vehicle in hopes you can pick up a deal at some point. The internet is certainly not "awash" with people who can't afford the car they ordered. Could that just be you?

Lord Ripon USA · Dec 9, 2023

255/85 said:
That appears to me as a ridiculous statement when most - if not all - modern vehicles operate with the same constraints. @YellowLab has said so alreadty. Many here have commented on the Grenadier's over abundance of electronic wizardry whereas you have generally been in the minority of folks asking for more. And now some strange call for even more to make the vehicle simpler or more reliable? What the...?

Maybe it's inadvertant on your part but I get the distinct impression your motivation, conscious or not, is to sow as much discontent as you can with the vehicle in hopes you can pick up a deal at some point. The internet is certainly not "awash" with people who can't afford the car they ordered. Could that just be you?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding the stream of posts exhibiting angst and anxiety.
Especially those over relatively small things.
But I doubt it.

I can see when someone is looking for the door.
Unlike others here, I have no vested interest in what anyone else does.
Bings and bongs are not charming.
And I’m totally OK with a manufacturer doing things behind the scenes to perfect individual vehicles. I think it is bad business to broadcast it being done though.
I’ve been a part of innumerable toolings and intro’s. Usually the sausage making process is done behind the scenes. A high percentage of early vehicles end up on a repair spur.
As they say, haste makes waste.
As far as electronics, there is some distance remaining to be traveled.
Two areas of concern for me are the dual battery switching, and the trailer towing stuff.
They impact my uses.
It’s not confidence building when so far into production the chosen work around is deletion.

YellowLab · Dec 9, 2023

Yawn…..

trobex · Dec 10, 2023

Roach said:
Was talking with another pre-order person today and they mentioned that the 60 to 75mph on a freeway takes a bit more than other cars (for him it was Defender).

I’ve gone on a freeway test drive but I don’t recall if the car wanders requiring more attention to stay in lane. Would love to hear some feedback from those that have done a long haul at freeway speeds.

FYI, searched but didn’t find anything other than comments regarding “wobbling” (vs wandering.

Trialmaster Diesel owner here. I personally find no issues at all with the Gren at 120kmh. To be honest it behaves better at 110kmh than 80kmh... and that is no lie.

TD5-90 · Dec 10, 2023

trobex said:
Trialmaster Diesel owner here. I personally find no issues at all with the Gren at 120kmh. To be honest it behaves better at 110kmh than 80kmh... and that is no lie.

Can exactly confirm that. My cruising speed is mostly 130-135km/h, and the car is more stable than at e.g. 50. Pushing up regularly to 160+, no problem. Done also relatively hard braking at those speeds, for testing & to become familiar with the car's response, my opinion: Good & safe.

I also can confirm that worn-out, bumpy roads at low speed require considerably more attention. But that's no different to my Defender 90. However, the high-speed behaviour of the Def is "breathtaking" compared to the Gren, 120+ needs the middle lane of a 3-lane motorway with no one around you...

Roach · Dec 10, 2023

@TD5-90 thanks for the feedback. I had a follow-on question or maybe clarification.
You mention in the last sentence :

However, the high-speed behaviour of the Def is "breathtaking" compared to the Gren, 120+ needs the middle lane of a 3-lane motorway with no one around you..

Was that to say the Gren is ok at 120 but any faster and it wanders?

TD5-90 · Dec 10, 2023

Roach said:
@TD5-90 thanks for the feedback. I had a follow-on question or maybe clarification.
You mention in the last sentence :

However, the high-speed behaviour of the Def is "breathtaking" compared to the Gren, 120+ needs the middle lane of a 3-lane motorway with no one around you..

Was that to say the Gren is ok at 120 but any faster and it wanders?

No. Sorry, I'm not a native english speaker/writer. Thought it was clear that I was talking about the Defender 90 TD5 when complaining about high speed behaviour...
Had another quite fast day with the Gren, cruising speed around 150...160. Oil changed last week, cross-changed and balanced wheels this morning, after ~8.500km max. imbalance was 15 grams (Duelers). High speed testing was very successful ;-)

Roach · Dec 10, 2023

TD5-90 said:
No. Sorry, I'm not a native english speaker/writer. Thought it was clear that I was talking about the Defender 90 TD5 when complaining about high speed behaviour...
Had another quite fast day with the Gren, cruising speed around 150...160. Oil changed last week, cross-changed and balanced tyres this morning, after ~8.500km max. imbalance was 15 grams (Duelers). High speed testing was very successful ;-)

Your english was fine...just wanted to verify. Your review is very helpful!

YellowLab · Dec 10, 2023

TD5-90 · Dec 10, 2023

YellowLab said:
View attachment 7835480

Germany (still) has this (single...) advantage over other countries: Approx. 70% of the Autobahn kilometers are not speed limited. So enough space for legal testing ;-)

Catpaw4x4 · Dec 11, 2023

reauxheaux said:
Drove about 400 interstate miles yesterday, my take. Rain, traffic, rain, interchanges, rain, night driving, windy and raining for a lot of the drive. (For reference my normal interstate driving is a modified Wrangler, Civic, or S-Class)

Will do 85 without thinking twice. Never once did I think "ah, I don't have the power to make that gap." Very responsive throttle and don't feel any real turbo lag.

Certainly need more steering input than a sedan, but less than the my Jeep. Steering is heavy, but tight. I drive with my left hand only, so I did notice a bit more "fatigue" at the end of the trip.

Road noise is surprisingly good for such a ride. The safari windows are loud when open at speed. Infotainment is not that intuitive, but have had way worse. Really felt planted the whole time, never felt it hydroplane (wanted to feel it honestly).

The most trivial complaint I could have. The steering wheel is too small. Like, one inch too small. I am sure it is engineered or whatever to a certain size for feel, but hey, that is my trivial complaint that doesn't really bother me.

Edited to add....
Just realized the steering wheel telescopes. Not surprising that it does/doesn't, but when I made adjustments yesterday it didn't seems as freely moving as my Jeep so I just assumed it didn't telescope. I think that would have made my drive more enjoyable yesterday and probably solves the steeringwheel size comment.

Agree - in my test drive the steering wheel just felt a "bit" small - smaller than the Discovery and Tiguan.
If the "G" hydroplanes at our "typical" (10+) driving speed, we are in trouble

. Never hydroplaned in the '96 Discovery.

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Long distance higher speed driving

Lord Ripon USA

flynnsk

Mr.Espresso

Lord Ripon USA

Tomdoc

YellowLab

Mr.Espresso

reauxheaux

TD5-90

255/85

Lord Ripon USA

YellowLab

trobex

TD5-90

Roach

TD5-90

Roach

YellowLab

TD5-90

Catpaw4x4

GG 4101

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