Eibach Pro-Lift Kit ~ +30mm coil springs

James · Dec 7, 2023

Tom109 said:
I find it is a process, not easily solved with taller spring or longer shocks. I am also completely unfamiliar with Ineos’ suspension, so I need some trail time with it. This is further complicated by the fact that I have never owned/driven selectable lockers. So, maybe I don’t do anything but enjoy the stock vehicle?

Tom,
Definitely you should try the vehicle in standard form for a bit. It is extremely well set up, and many/most modifications gain something at the cost of compromising more things that you gain. So you need to know what youve got first.

secondly, repeating a point made a long time back and lost easily in the wash…
IF your reason for fitting the 30mm taller springs is because you are using the vehicle offroad when it is reasonably loaded, which is extremely likely to be the case for anyone travelling (nb, this is not the ideal car for crawling/offroad park day trips), then the whole issue of shock absorber possible travel restriction is not relevant. (remember its only a speculation this might matter).
your slightly longer springs will return the car to closer to unloaded body height when loaded.

Also worth pointing out that it is designed to work loaded as standard too, so your original thought of just enjoy it as it is is an excellent posture!

stickshifter · Dec 7, 2023

j.ironfab said:
Yeah I agree a kit is how most people go and it's usually pretty good from reputable brands but always a middle ground cause they don't know the real weight of the truck. I just wanted to point out that you could do custom valved shocks for very little difference in price and be much happier. That being said I am cheap and the Gren will probably get an appropriate length 5165 Bilstein with a close enough rebound for me.

On the short arms I can't really say till I get measurements on the links and travel and space in the wheel well. If need be I will build custom control arms that could fix some issue but length will always be an issue for the Gren. I don't want to go changing their frame/axle mounts right away but 35's will be what I want for this truck so we will see. I like having the wheel on the door so I will probably just build a mount that moves the stock mount over. I always hated having to swing the tire out and then the door. I am more worried about moving the coolers out of the wings in the front bumper which is the dumbest thing I have seen in awhile for a supposed purposed built truck.

I see a bunch of potential in the Gren for what I want in a truck however there are some major short comings for a "off-road" truck as the marketing people like to say it is.

Yeah - I am in the same boat. There is much I love about the Gren, but some design features that I find super-frustrating, and contrary to the mission and marketing. I won't go into any of that here, as it would just be rehashing previous posts. I'd love to keep in touch and hear about how things go for you with truck.

BigJoeJack · Dec 7, 2023

j.ironfab said:
Yeah I agree a kit is how most people go and it's usually pretty good from reputable brands but always a middle ground cause they don't know the real weight of the truck. I just wanted to point out that you could do custom valved shocks for very little difference in price and be much happier. That being said I am cheap and the Gren will probably get an appropriate length 5165 Bilstein with a close enough rebound for me.

On the short arms I can't really say till I get measurements on the links and travel and space in the wheel well. If need be I will build custom control arms that could fix some issue but length will always be an issue for the Gren. I don't want to go changing their frame/axle mounts right away but 35's will be what I want for this truck so we will see. I like having the wheel on the door so I will probably just build a mount that moves the stock mount over. I always hated having to swing the tire out and then the door. I am more worried about moving the coolers out of the wings in the front bumper which is the dumbest thing I have seen in awhile for a supposed purposed built truck.

I see a bunch of potential in the Gren for what I want in a truck however there are some major short comings for a "off-road" truck as the marketing people like to say it is.

I think 35" will fit without issue with the Eibach 30mm. Kahn is running 35" tires/30mm Eibach lift and I got this info from them directly

Krabby · Dec 7, 2023

Are there any issues with limited articulation or rubbing? It doesn't look like there's much room should the suspension need to flex.

stickshifter · Dec 7, 2023

I agree with Krabby, that it doesn't look like there is enough clearance for those tires at full flex. I would also guess that the front inside tire on a right-angle turn will also rub against the inner fender when taking a turn and hitting a moderate incline. This is a common maneuver when daily driving (turning up a driveway, or into a parking lot). On a more positive note, the front lower control arm is relatively flat - which is good - but that is also a consequence of the fact that the suspension lift is quite moderate - and I would guess that a taller lift will be necessary to run those 35-inch tires while maintaining full wheel articulation.

stickshifter · Dec 7, 2023

Follow up to previous post: as much as I want to run 35s on the Grenadier, I would not run them with the Eibach 30mm lift. I've run too big a tire for a vehicle's suspension set-up in the past, and it is a right pain in the ass. You get rubbing when the suspension is under minimal stress on the road, and bad rubbing that limits articulation when on technical terrain off road. All-in-all, it is a frustrating ownership experience. Then you are stuck having spent money on both the suspension, and the tires, so you start trimming. You start by removing the front mud flaps, and then you get small rocks, gravel, and snow/salt getting thrown all over your rocker panels and front doors. That trimming doesn't do enough, so you start hacking away at the inner fender, also exposing parts of the vehicle to gravel and salt damage. Unless the vehicle is a road princess, having too large a tire for the suspension geometry is a bad situation. I think that the Eibach 30mm lift will allow one to run a true 33-inch tire, while maintaining 100% articulation under all circumstances.

As a final consideration, there are no aftermarket gears for the Carraro axles that I am aware of. Going to a 35-inch tire without re-gearing the axles is taking the vehicle well-out of factory spec in terms of how Ineos designed the engine, transmission, and axle ratios. This matters. Going to a 35 without re-gearing will result in a loss of power, especially when accelerating from a stop, but it will also affect shifting patterns, and basically, you are now driving a vehicle that is just out of spec. I have gone from a 31-inch tire to a 35-inch tire, and there was a gap before I could re-gear. I hated driving the vehicle during that gap. Sure, the BMW 3.0 (gas or diesel) makes decent low-end torque, and that will mitigate the increase in tire-size, but you will never have the same driving experience as was designed by Ineos unless you re-gear the axles. The Gren comes with 4.10 gears, and a 35-inch tire really calls for 4.56 gears to maintain original parameters.

Miki · Dec 7, 2023

Krabby said:
Are there any issues with limited articulation or rubbing? It doesn't look like there's much room should the suspension need to flex.

You are not going to take that off-road though.
It's perfect bling for floating down the freeways, picking up the kids from school or going to get ones nails done.

Krabby · Dec 7, 2023

Miki said:
You are not going to take that off-road though.
It's perfect bling for floating down the freeways, picking up the kids from school or going to get ones nails done.

That was my first reaction. I can't place it, but isn't Kahn a company that spiffs-up proper Defenders and other JLR products?

Tom109 · Dec 7, 2023

James said:
Tom,
Definitely you should try the vehicle in standard form for a bit. It is extremely well set up, and many/most modifications gain something at the cost of compromising more things that you gain. So you need to know what youve got first.

secondly, repeating a point made a long time back and lost easily in the wash…
IF your reason for fitting the 30mm taller springs is because you are using the vehicle offroad when it is reasonably loaded, which is extremely likely to be the case for anyone travelling (nb, this is not the ideal car for crawling/offroad park day trips), then the whole issue of shock absorber possible travel restriction is not relevant. (remember its only a speculation this might matter).
your slightly longer springs will return the car to closer to unloaded body height when loaded.

Also worth pointing out that it is designed to work loaded as standard too, so your original thought of just enjoy it as it is is an excellent posture!

I am super excited to put the Gren through its paces - as delivered!

j.ironfab · Dec 7, 2023

Nice to see a gren on 35's but hard to say if they actually fit through the travel. This being a linked vehicle you can just pull the springs and test with a tire on how it will fit in the travel without any effort. I was hoping to see somebody do this by now as it takes zero effort if you have the tire when you are changing springs already.

Personally I am not worried about the gearing with going to 35's the calc shows a modest 1mph change in where I am concerned about it in the low range RPM and it has 8 gears so it better be able to hold a 3 inch tire change within reason. I drive slow and beat up 4wd's now so I am sure even without a gearing change this will be a whole different experience on road for me.

I am happy this is coil springs but I can get leafs built so easily in town that it sucks to have to find a new builder for the coil springs. Has any one worked with a spring shop in the states that will build custom coils?

AnD3rew · Dec 7, 2023

Every now and then I catch myself thinking that when tyres are ready for replacement I will put taller tyres and maybe small lift. Then I have to remind myself that I have about 2mm clearance in my garage and my insurance insists that it be in a garage

ADVAW8S · Dec 8, 2023

@AnD3rew. Think of it this way. Your tires are giving you the opportunity to build a bigger garage. Then when tires need replacing you are ready.

Tom109 · Dec 8, 2023

AnD3rew said:
Every now and then I catch myself thinking that when tyres are ready for replacement I will put taller tyres and maybe small lift. Then I have to remind myself that I have about 2mm clearance in my garage and my insurance insists that it be in a garage

ADVAW8S said:
@AnD3rew. Think of it this way. Your tires are giving you the opportunity to build a bigger garage. Then when tires need replacing you are ready.

Yes, come June ‘24 I’ll have 9ft doors.

Miki · Dec 9, 2023

Krabby said:
That was my first reaction. I can't place it, but isn't Kahn a company that spiffs-up proper Defenders and other JLR products?

Yes.
Guccified tittat.
Like this for only a 1/4million pounds (U$ 313,699.75)

Kahn Automobiles

www.kahnautomobiles.com

ADVAW8S · Dec 9, 2023

Krabby said:
Are there any issues with limited articulation or rubbing? It doesn't look like there's much room should the suspension need to flex.

I was re looking at picture and it looks like they are running rims with more offset and tires that really stick out. What I'm saying is the tire look like they don't even sit in the wheel well.

evomind · Dec 9, 2023

I would like to see a slight increase in tire size/ride hgt but that stuffed tire in the wheel well isnt my look or style.

I will probably do the 35mm lift and look for a taller tire but not too much.
I dont know why some folks are having a breakdown over a 35 mm lift. That's hardly a lift at all. Usually if ya dont go 2" you shouldn't even bother.

The gearing will affect the gas engines more than the diesels, but hardly worth having a heart attack over going to maybe the next bigger size up.
The gearing will be fine 1 tire size up or so, millions of people have done that and you shouldn't need to re-gear.

I dont know why everyone wants to add this, add that, repeat how the truck was designed as a "canvas" then have a heart attack if someone wants to get some decent ride hgt out of it.

douggie · Dec 10, 2023

Had my Eibach Coils fitted last week. They come in Silver and they are 1mm thicker than the original yellow ones at 18.5mm diameter . My trialmaster has a roof rack, bar, winch, side rails and steps and the lift is exactly 50mm over the previous factory Eibach's with the Red Circles/Blue Triangles combination that seems to be the std in Aus for the Grenadiers shipped so far. I also fitted airbags to the rear coils for a bit of stability when towing a big caravan... will do a full writeup in the next few weeks complete with measurements.

Stuart Murchison from Murchison Products did the engineering and measurements for me out at his private Samford Valley QLD workshop known colloquially as Area 51. He specialises in Jeep/RAM lifts and did some work on my Jeep GC 2015 which was a phenomenal improvement in suspension and towing capability. So I took the Grenadier out there for his take and the coils/airbag work and he is thinking about putting together some kits for the Grenadier.

Pictures: Old coils, front left, right rear with airbag, air valve for right rear airbag tucked in neatly above recovery point (no drilling):

Shame my new rims are still tied up on the Brisbane Dock so didn't get to put the 33 Yokohama G016s with Method Race Wheel 701s on it yet.

Highlights:

Significant loss of droop (in fact even the stock standard was short 25mm on the front, so now we are short 75mm)
The right hand front was 10mm down from the left hand side (on factory suspension) and a 10mm spacer on the new coil has not sorted that issue
The Steering damper is at significant risk of damage being the low side and his comments were amazing how much DNA from the JK/JL Jeep is in the Front Setup of the Grenadier ... so there are exact parallels with Wrangler front end changes. Possible solution: deleting the stock and putting the bill stein unit illustrated above... need to validate clearances so we will be back in the workshop trying the new first before removing the old mount
There are a few points underneath that need a bit of protection above factory so some custom plates for specific components would be useful too

Some more thoughts on steering coming as well, and a custom set of Bilsteins is likely to replace the factory std shocks to get the offload performance of the front full travel.

But next up is seeing how the Grenadier tows on my 3 week trip south with current changes.

And now for a steering damper teaser: (The aim of deleting the original damper and fitting the Bilstein damper illustrated in silver above) - trial in Jan when I get back. And there will be some other steering work to improve the smoothness and precision without sacrificing off-road performance. More to post if the ideas pan out.

Cheers all...

stickshifter · Dec 10, 2023

douggie said:
Had my Eibach Coils fitted last week. They come in Silver and they are 1mm thicker than the original yellow ones at 18.5mm diameter . My trialmaster has a roof rack, bar, winch, side rails and steps and the lift is exactly 50mm over the previous factory Eibach's with the Red Circles/Blue Triangles combination that seems to be the std in Aus for the Grenadiers shipped so far. I also fitted airbags to the rear coils for a bit of stability when towing a big caravan... will do a full writeup in the next few weeks complete with measurements.

Stuart Murchison from Murchison Products did the engineering and measurements for me out at his private Samford Valley QLD workshop known colloquially as Area 51. He specialises in Jeep/RAM lifts and did some work on my Jeep GC 2015 which was a phenomenal improvement in suspension and towing capability. So I took the Grenadier out there for his take and the coils/airbag work and he is thinking about putting together some kits for the Grenadier.

Pictures: Old coils, front left, right rear with airbag, air valve for right rear airbag tucked in neatly above recovery point (no drilling):

Shame my new rims are still tied up on the Brisbane Dock so didn't get to put the 33 Yokohama G016s with Method Race Wheel 701s on it yet.

Highlights:

Significant loss of droop (in fact even the stock standard was short 25mm on the front, so now we are short 75mm)

The right hand front was 10mm down from the left hand side (on factory suspension) and a 10mm spacer on the new coil has not sorted that issue

The Steering damper is at significant risk of damage being the low side and his comments were amazing how much DNA from the JK/JL Jeep is in the Front Setup of the Grenadier ... so there are exact parallels with Wrangler front end changes. Possible solution: deleting the stock and putting the bill stein unit illustrated above... need to validate clearances so we will be back in the workshop trying the new first before removing the old mount

There are a few points underneath that need a bit of protection above factory so some custom plates for specific components would be useful too

Some more thoughts on steering coming as well, and a custom set of Bilsteins is likely to replace the factory std shocks to get the offload performance of the front full travel.

But next up is seeing how the Grenadier tows on my 3 week trip south with current changes.

And now for a steering damper teaser: (The aim of deleting the original damper and fitting the Bilstein damper illustrated in silver above) - trial in Jan when I get back. And there will be some other steering work to improve the smoothness and precision without sacrificing off-road performance. More to post if the ideas pan out.

Cheers all...

Great initial write-up!

When you say that you have experienced a "significant loss of droop" are you referring to down-travel of the wheels? That is how we use the term "droop" here in the U.S. - but I don't know if that is how you use the term in Australia. If you have, in fact, lost some down-travel in the suspension, that would confirm my suspicion about this lift without making any other adjustments, such as a longer shocks.

I wrote about this earlier in the thread. People lift vehicles for different reasons. If a person is lifting a vehicle to improve performance on technical terrain, then there are three goals with the lift: (1) gain ground clearance for the undercarriage, (2) run a larger tire, thereby gaining ground clearance under the differentials as well as more ground clearance for the undercarriage, and (3) gain suspension travel (i.e. better wheel articulation). If you lift a vehicle without adding a longer shock, you can gain #1 and #2, but you will not gain #3.

With regard to relocating the low-hanging steering damper: you might want to get in touch with the folks at Red Noland, in Colorado Springs. I believe that they hit a rock and broke their steering damper (the photo below is from a Facebook page purportedly about the Red Noland Grenadier). The vehicle is back up and running, and the new steering damper has been tucked up behind the tie rod (at least that is how it looked to my eye when I drove the vehicle a month ago).

Thanks again for posting about the Eibach lift - looking forward to hearing more about your lift, and the other changes you are making.

douggie · Dec 10, 2023

stickshifter said:
Great initial write-up!

When you say that you have experienced a "significant loss of droop" are you referring to down-travel of the wheels? That is how we use the term "droop" here in the U.S. - but I don't know if that is how you use the term in Australia. If you have, in fact, lost some down-travel in the suspension, that would confirm my suspicion about this lift without making any other adjustments, such as a longer shocks.

I wrote about this earlier in the thread. People lift vehicles for different reasons. If a person is lifting a vehicle to improve performance on technical terrain, then there are three goals with the lift: (1) gain ground clearance for the undercarriage, (2) run a larger tire, thereby gaining ground clearance under the differentials as well as more ground clearance for the undercarriage, and (3) gain suspension travel (i.e. better wheel articulation). If you lift a vehicle without adding a longer shock, you can gain #1 and #2, but you will not gain #3.

With regard to relocating the low-hanging steering damper: you might want to get in touch with the folks at Red Noland, in Colorado Springs. I believe that they hit a rock and broke their steering damper (the photo below is from a Facebook page purportedly about the Red Noland Grenadier). The vehicle is back up and running, and the new steering damper has been tucked up behind the tie rod (at least that is how it looked to my eye when I drove the vehicle a month ago).

View attachment 7835478

Thanks again for posting about the Eibach lift - looking forward to hearing more about your lift, and the other changes you are making.

Yes Droop is the same Aus versus US terminology...

And the lift needs to take into account linkage lengths too ... so that will be a little while off. Measure multiple times, cut once, but perhaps a few trials as well.

And re the steering damper: Ooops! That's was so gonna happen even if most of the structure is bullet proof the damper is the week point with a thinner wall.

We potentially have everything for the move except ran out of time in the workshop for checking clearances under all forces on the mount bolt location (which is where it was illustrated right hand side with a custom bolt off a structural member using the same bolt arrangement as has been successful for the same mod on a Jeep), have to fit it and get the forklift involved to simulate full opposite travel and check for enough tolerance for the extra movement when significant force is involved. Initial measurements show it's possible but there has to be that safety clearance...

Miki · Dec 11, 2023

ADVAW8S said:
I was re looking at picture and it looks like they are running rims with more offset and tires that really stick out. What I'm saying is the tire look like they don't even sit in the wheel well.

Kahn are all about style over function. as long as it looks cool .....

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