Petrol/Gas B58 or B58TU?

b58 · May 21, 2023

Will we get the B58 or the B58TU engine? You can easily distinguish between these two by taking a look at the exhaust manifold.
The B58 comes with classical exhaust manifold with 6 outlets, one per cylinder.
The B58TU has it’s exhaust manifold integrated into the cylinder head. Only two outlets which are the actual manifold go to the turbocharger.

The B58 came 2016. It has two timing chains, one for each camshaft.
The B58TU engine came 2019. Unlike the non-TU, it has only one timing chain that connetcs both camshafts with the crankshaft.

This leads to the question which of these variants is being used in the Grenadier? The non-TU or the TU?

Disco Dave · May 21, 2023

It will be the 58TU. The B58TU comes in two versions, the medium output, and the high output. The high output version actually has 6 exhaust outlets. I would say the IG gets the medium output version, with 2 outlets.

LC0013 · May 21, 2023

Would like to have seen the high output version. Better to have more power than you need than just enough or not enough.

b58 · May 21, 2023

To be precise, you can't tell the power class (medium or high output) from the exhaust manifold.
It all started with six exhaust outlets. It's name was just B58. There's no B58A/B. It had been used in f.e. F20 M240i, F30 340i, G30 540i and G11 740i.

Then three more versions came to the market which could be described as B58TU: B58C, B58D and B58X all come with two outlets. B58C is being used in f.e. in G30 LCI 540i and G15 840i. B58X is the hybrid version which came in G30 545e, G11 745e and X5 45e. B58D uses different parts, but the same two output-construction. It was fitted in f.e. G20 M340i and Toyota Supra M40i.

Krabby · May 21, 2023

How can one tell which is which?

b58 · May 21, 2023

6 outlets exhaust manifold: B58
2 outlets: B58C/D/X/N

B58N is the newest configuration level based on miller cycle, used in G05 X5 40i and G07 X7 40i. I don't consider the B58N to come in the Grenadier just like the B58D. It's more likely a downtuned B58C. Side note: B58X without electrical hybrid stuff IS the B58C. OR it could still be the old B58 one.

Has anyone taken a look under a petrol Grenadier's bonnet? How many exhaust manifold outputs does the Grenadier petrol engine have? If it's six, the Gren got the old pre-TU B58, if it's two, it got the B58C.

b58 · May 21, 2023

There you go

Disco Dave · May 22, 2023

b58 said:
To be precise, you can't tell the power class (medium or high output) from the exhaust manifold.
It all started with six exhaust outlets. It's name was just B58. There's no B58A/B. It had been used in f.e. F20 M240i, F30 340i, G30 540i and G11 740i.

Then three more versions came to the market which could be described as B58TU: B58C, B58D and B58X all come with two outlets. B58C is being used in f.e. in G30 LCI 540i and G15 840i. B58X is the hybrid version which came in G30 545e, G11 745e and X5 45e. B58D uses different parts, but the same two output-construction. It was fitted in f.e. G20 M340i and Toyota Supra M40i.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2120404&d=1565745080

Go to page 5 of the above document. It clearly shows 2 power output variants, the high power variant, does not have the head integrated exhaust manifold. The high power variant has 6 exhaust outlets from the head.
The IG will get the lower power variant, with the head integrated manifold i.e. only 2 outlets.
Most information regarding the B58TU is in reference to the lower power variant.

Norb-TX · May 23, 2023

That's actually good news, if IA spec'ed the higher output engine, we'd probably get 13 miles per gallon instead of 15.

b58 · May 23, 2023

I checked again. You are partly right @Disco Dave And I need to partly correct my post #6:

B58C uses 2 outlet-manifold (-> variant A). F.e. G15 840i, 340 PS/hp.
When it comes to B58TU, only B58D uses 6 outled manifold (-> variant B). F.e. G20 M340i, 371 PS/hp.
Interesting thing is that B58N (could be described as B58TU2) has more power (381 PS/hp) than B58D but still uses variant A.

DaBull · May 23, 2023

b58 said:
I checked again. You are partly right @Disco Dave And I need to partly correct my post #6:

B58C uses 2 outlet-manifold (-> variant A). F.e. G15 840i, 340 PS/hp.
When it comes to B58TU, only B58D uses 6 outled manifold (-> variant B). F.e. G20 M340i, 371 PS/hp.
Interesting thing is that B58N (could be described as B58TU2) has more power (381 PS/hp) than B58D but still uses variant A.

Hi B58, Have 2 say a bit confused about all the variants. Looks like we are getting the detuned 2 outlet-manifold variant. Does anyone know it's exact
designation by either BMW and/or Grenadier yet, so we can refer to the exact engine we are getting if we order a petrol version
or order the diesel version. Would be nice to know in case one needs to order parts from either BMW or Grenadier so that we
get the exact correct parts. Perhaps Stu can get Grenadier to give us this information by date of manufacture and serial number
as the engines may be changing over time. In the meantime I would just like to know what I am getting for proper reference. DaBull

b58 · May 23, 2023

To sum it up, I am pretty sure we will be getting the B58C which is being used in all the following BMWs.

255/85 · May 25, 2023

The B58TU2 is not the engine of choice for a Grenadier imho. Too complex. Aimed at high horsepower.There are several videos about it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwFH-5Pgv7o&pp=ygUOYm13IGI1OCBlbmdpbmU%3D

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-eE8v6ZxF0

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz4lkzQYOno

255/85 · May 29, 2023

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzXHmXMJJzs

Disco Dave · Jun 8, 2023

Now we know that we are getting the B58TU in an our Grennys. Later models may get the B58TU2. The B58TU is direct injection, the TU2 is port AND direct injection.
Below is a great explanation of the differences. Hoping we do not suffer too much from the inlet valve carbon buildup, am gambling that BMW engineering has minimised this.

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MIDItBqX3SQ&feature=share

Krabby · Nov 26, 2023

A little bump on this thread.

shiv.nandak · Nov 26, 2023

Disco Dave said:
Now we know that we are getting the B58TU in an our Grennys. Later models may get the B58TU2. The B58TU is direct injection, the TU2 is port AND direct injection.
Below is a great explanation of the differences. Hoping we do not suffer too much from the inlet valve carbon buildup, am gambling that BMW engineering has minimised this.

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MIDItBqX3SQ&feature=share

I really hope it's the TU2 with port injection. Carbon build up could be an issue for long term owners. Port injection solves this issue.

FlyingTexan · Dec 9, 2023

I just want to know the exact model so I can get a tune for it

stickshifter · Dec 9, 2023

FlyingTexan said:
I just want to know the exact model so I can get a tune for it

You probably already know, but if not:

The B58 version of the Grenadier comes with the ZF 8HP51 transmission, which has a max torque rating of 369 lb/ft.

In the Grenadier, the B58 engine makes 332 lb/ft of torque.

So there is currently about 10% head room between the max torque output of the engine, and the torque-rating of the transmission. That means there is little room to tune up the B58 without exceeding the transmission rating. It may well be that the transmission is strong enough to handle more power/torque than it is rated for, but that's not for me to say. Undoubtedly, a tune that takes the engine over the torque-rating of the transmission would void any warranty claim on anything in the drive train.

Its really too bad that the B58 is not being paired with the stouter version of the ZF as is the B57 (diesel) variant - namely, the ZF 8HP76 - which has a torque-rating of 560 lb/ft.

Of course, some Gren owners will tune the B58 regardless of the torque-rating of the transmission. I'm pretty sure that the B58 is paired with the ZF 8HP51 in a bunch of 3-series BMWs and in the Toyota Supra, and I would guess that a lot of BMW and Supra owners are tuning their engines. On the other hand, a lot of Gren owners will likely place more value on reliability than on tuning to max power and/or torque.

If money is not a concern, you can upgrade the ZF 8HP51 to handle 1000 lb/ft of torque

ZF 8HP51 Transmission Upgrade — Pure Drivetrain Solutions

Our rebuild focuses on fortifying the overall holding power and reliability of your transmission. Through modifications and replacement of oem parts to our own billet parts we are able to achieve the highest clutch counts currently available on the market and the most holding power possible. With ea

www.puredrivetrainsolutions.com

shiv.nandak · Feb 12, 2024

Since a bunch of us have our grenadiers, did anyone confirm the exact version of the B58? TU or TU2?

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